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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450324 -

Enlil said:
I'm sure.  That's because he knows the risks associated with using a private server.  I seriously doubt Clinton did before all of this hoopla.


Why even set up a private server if she didn't know anything about computers? Why not just take the already offered secured government one? That is, unless your trying to hide something - the motive seems obvious. There is nothing more 'convenient' about it.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450344 -

Enlil said:
Not simple negligence, however. Criminal negligence is a different standard, and it requires a willful disregard of a known risk.  That's the problem here.  There's no evidence she knew the risks involved.

She's an old lady. Her understanding of computers and servers is probably very little.


After there had been attempts to hack her server, in which the server had to be shut down for a period of time, there was clearly known risk. I have the distinct feeling that you just enjoy being a contrarian.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: xzylocybin]
    #23450459 -

Being part of politics doesn't mean that she has the first fucking clue about servers.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: twighead]
    #23450462 -

twighead said:
Why even set up a private server if she didn't know anything about computers? Why not just take the already offered secured government one? That is, unless your trying to hide something - the motive seems obvious. There is nothing more 'convenient' about it.


I highly doubt she said, "let's use a private server."  Some tech guy she hired likely suggested the idea, and she said, "sure" without having a clue what that meant as far as security or classified information.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23450500 -

Bigbadwooof said:
I have the distinct feeling that you just enjoy being a contrarian.


I realize that you have no real respect for the Constitution, but I do.  I am a firm believer in the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  As of now, there isn't any evidence that she knew of the risks and consciously disregarded them.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450563 -

Enlil said:
Bigbadwooof said:
I have the distinct feeling that you just enjoy being a contrarian.


I realize that you have no real respect for the Constitution, but I do.  I am a firm believer in the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  As of now, there isn't any evidence that she knew of the risks and consciously disregarded them.


I believe that also, which is why she should have been indicted. I'm not saying she should have been charged, but it should have gone to court.

She told her aid to take the 'classified' label off of a document and email it to her. Clearly she was trying to get around her obligation to handle that material in the proper manner. How can you even argue against that fact?

Look, if she is too old to be capable of understanding what she is doing, then she shouldn't hold office. If she wanted to have a fucking server, then she should have gone and learned every fucking thing she needed to know to protect confidential information. Otherwise, she should have just done what she was told to do, and use the state department email, like everyone else. She created these special circumstances for herself, so she is responsible for understanding what she is doing with classified information, and the legal implications of it.

Apparently accountability isn't something you have much regard for, but I do. This has nothing to do with my support or lack of support for the constitution. You're just rambling bullshit now.

She deleted work-related emails that were meant to be part of the public record. She allowed her lawyers to see information that they didn't have a clearance to view. She continued to use her server (that was technologically beyond her understanding, apparently), instead of switching back to state dpt. email, after there had clearly been an attempt on her server that caused her to have to shut it down.

She ought to go to court. If it had been me doing all of that, or Bernie Sanders, we would already have had a court verdict, and probably not a good one.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/17/16 05:23 PM)

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23450579 -

Bigbadwooof said:
She told her aid to take the 'classified' label off of a document and email it to her.


I asked for the evidence of this earlier, but I have yet to see any.

This has nothing to do with accountability.  The criminal justice system is about punishment.  Holding her accountable is 100% appropriate.  Punishing her requires a higher level of proof, however, and I've yet to see anything that supports a criminal charge.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450707 -

Here's a link to an email in which Hillary tells an aide to remove identifier and send presumably sensitive or classified information non-secure... also belying she has knowledge of exactly what she's been doing.


https://www.wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/Clinton_Email_January_7_Release/C05787519.pdf


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: twighead]
    #23450730 -

"Presumably"

Her spokesperson already said that she was asking that non classified material be sent.  Any third rate public defender could neutralize that evidence.  If that's the best they have, there's nowhere near enough for an indictment.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450796 -

We don't have the evidence the FBI would so it's hard to say - we only have what the US govt deemed releasable which probably isn't any of worst of it.

Why would they remove the identifying headline do you think?


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450807 -

We don't have the evidence the FBI would so it's hard to say - we only have what the US govt deemed releasable which probably isn't any of worst of it.

I mean of course they took the route of deniability
Why would they remove the identifying headline though do you think?


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: twighead]
    #23450817 -

It was talking points. Could be a hundred reasons.  A prosecutor has a duty to serve justice.  That means being very confident in the strength of a case before charging a 68 year old woman with a felony for conduct that harmed no one.

As an attorney who deals with prosecutors all the time, I'd be shocked and suspicious if they brought charges based on what we've seen so far.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23450901 -

It's tough to comment on because -we- haven't really seen presumably much of what is actually there.

Pertaining to strictly the email server issue, I wouldn't expect hefty charges laid - I would expect however a removal of security clearance however and a good sized fine, akin to the penalties levied against Patraeus for his minor breach.
To quote Comey...
Quote:
To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.



Another couple paragraphs worth quoting that outline some of the reasons why I don't buy her 'but I didn't know!' shpeel.

Quote:
For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).

Separately, it is important to say something about the marking of classified information. Only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information. But even if information is not marked “classified” in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it.




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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: twighead]
    #23450978 -

So we agree.  She should lose security clearance and be sanctioned.  I'm all for that.  I just don't think this is a case for criminal prosecution.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23464200 -

Enlil said:
twighead said:
Why even set up a private server if she didn't know anything about computers? Why not just take the already offered secured government one? That is, unless your trying to hide something - the motive seems obvious. There is nothing more 'convenient' about it.


I highly doubt she said, "let's use a private server."  Some tech guy she hired likely suggested the idea, and she said, "sure" without having a clue what that meant as far as security or classified information.


If the bitch doesn't have a clue about security or classified information, why in the FUCK was she Secretary of State?  For Christ's sake, are we going to tolerate fucking morons occupying the highest positions of our government?


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23464204 -

When have we had anything other than a moron?


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil]
    #23464218 -

Maybe I should have said, 'Are we going to continue to tolerate having morons occupy the highest levels of government?'


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23464227 -

The answer is clearly yes.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #23465926 -

She's not a moron, although she may appear that way. That's got to be the most naïve cop out I've ever heard. You don't think she has knowledge of security clearance? She:

Has a law degree from Yale

Has been working in politics for over 40 years. I'm sure security clearance and classification never came up.

She even was on the impeachment staff investigating Nixon during Watergate. She has been on the scene for quite some time.

Oh and did I mention she was a lawyer with over 40 years political experience? I think I did. She also:
    - Served as a lawyer on the board of Wal-mart
    - Named one of the most powerful lawyers in America '88, '91
    - Won a grammy
If you are going to play the complete moron card, then you have to admit that you are retarded and your opinion is worthless. If someone that stupid can do so much, and we have all comparatively done so little, we must all be fucking imbeciles.

And stop acting like you need some sort of esoteric knowledge about computer science to understand the risks. You don't need any of that bull shit to be criminally negligent. She knew the risks, and conducted her actions with wanton disregard of that risk. They had warned her in 2009 about accessing her emails on non-secure devices and in non-secure locations due to the security risks.

I posted this link earlier but it was ignored, likely because it didn't fit your narrative.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3302665/Hillary-s-security-staff-warned-BlackBerry-vulnerable-hackers-Washington-office.html


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Edited by amp244 (07/22/16 12:40 PM)

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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23492878 -

starfire_xes said:
Enlil said:
twighead said:
Why even set up a private server if she didn't know anything about computers? Why not just take the already offered secured government one? That is, unless your trying to hide something - the motive seems obvious. There is nothing more 'convenient' about it.


I highly doubt she said, "let's use a private server."  Some tech guy she hired likely suggested the idea, and she said, "sure" without having a clue what that meant as far as security or classified information.


If the bitch doesn't have a clue about security or classified information, why in the FUCK was she Secretary of State?  For Christ's sake, are we going to tolerate fucking morons occupying the highest positions of our government?



And the Fucking Moron who thinks Putin is a friend should be occupying the highest positions of our government?

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