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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time
    #2321933 - 02/10/04 10:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

We are so evil.  :devil:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/08/wguan08.xml

I had a good time at Guantanamo, says inmate
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 08/02/2004)


An Afghan boy whose 14-month detention by US authorities as a terrorist suspect in Cuba prompted an outcry from human rights campaigners said yesterday that he enjoyed his time in the camp.

Mohammed Ismail Agha, 15, who until last week was held at the US military base in Guantanamo Bay, said that he was treated very well and particularly enjoyed learning to speak English. His words will disappoint critics of the US policy of detaining "illegal combatants" in south-east Cuba indefinitely and without trial.

In a first interview with any of the three juveniles held by the US at Guantanamo Bay base, Mohammed said: "They gave me a good time in Cuba. They were very nice to me, giving me English lessons."

Mohammed, an unemployed Afghan farmer, found the surroundings in Cuba at first baffling. After he settled in, however, he was left to enjoy stimulating school work, good food and prayer.

"At first I was unhappy . . . For two or three days [after I arrived in Cuba] I was confused but later the Americans were so nice to me. They gave me good food with fruit and water for ablutions and prayer," he said yesterday in Naw Zad, a remote market town in southern Afghanistan close to his home village and 300 miles south-west of Kabul, the capital.

He said that the American soldiers taught him and his fellow child captives - aged 15 and 13 - to write and speak a little English. They supplied them with books in their native Pashto language. When the three boys left last week for Afghanistan, the soldiers looking after them gave them a send-off dinner and urged them to continue their studies.

"They even took photographs of us all together before we left," he said. Mohammed, however, said he would have to disappoint his captors by not returning to his studies. "I am too poor for that. I will have to look for work," he said.

Mohammed said his detention began in November 2002 when he and a friend, both unemployed, left their farming community for Lashkar Gah, a nearby town. He said that as they stood outside a shop they were detained by a group of armed men who accused them of being members of the Taliban, the fundamentalist Islamic movement formerly in power in Afghanistan.

They were then handed over to US soldiers, who took them to the southern city of Kandahar, he claimed. They were taken to Bagram air base, where Mohammed was held in solitary confinement.

"They were asking me if I was Taliban. I said, 'No, I am innocent'. I thought they were going to release me but instead they put me on a plane," he said. "They asked me to wear a hood for part of the journey. When I got off the plane I was in Cuba."

While Mohammed praised the American soldiers who watched over him, he criticised the US authorities for failing to contact his parents for 10 months to let them know that he was alive. "They stole 14 months of my life, and my family's life. I was entirely innocent: just a poor boy looking for work," he said.

Mohammed and his fellow juvenile detainees returned to Afghanistan last week, after the intervention of the International Committee of the Red Cross. His words of praise for the American soldiers in Guantanamo Bay echo those of Faiz Mohammed, an elderly Afghan farmer who was detained at the base for eight months before being released in October 2002.

"They treated us well. We had enough food. I didn't mind [being detained] because they took my old clothes and gave me new clothes," said the farmer, who was partially deaf.

Camp Delta, which superseded the temporary Camp X-Ray, and Camp Iguana, a lower-security detention facility for juveniles, were established as part of President George W Bush's "war on terror".

More than 600 suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban suspects have been held without charge at the barbed-wire camps since December 2001. They include nine Britons and three British residents.

Human rights agencies such as Amnesty International have alleged that the detention of the boys contravened the Geneva Convention, saying the separation from their families amounted to a form of mental torture. One of the boys was just 11 when he was detained.

The US authorities insist that age plays no role in deciding who constitutes a threat. "Age is not a determining factor in detention. We detain enemy combatants who engaged in armed conflict against our forces or provided support to those fighting against us," said a Pentagon spokesman.

Another US government official contradicted Mohammed's claims that he was entirely innocent when detained. The official said last week that one of the three boys had told of being conscripted into an anti-American militia group; a second said that he was abducted by the Taliban and forced to train and fight; while the third was studying in an extremist mosque and captured while preparing to obtain weapons.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2321988 - 02/10/04 10:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yeah, after the reprogramming they let him talk. Look at what the high points of the 14 month stay was. Fruit, water, prayer and a convicts overall. Children have no idea whats going on. peace


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Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322015 - 02/10/04 10:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Could be.

Of course it could be how he really feels.


Quote:

Fruit, water, prayer and a convicts overall.



It appears you forgot a few things.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2322040 - 02/10/04 10:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I didn't mind [being detained] because




Thats how one can tell they reprogrammed him.

opps, that the farmer...anyway, put yourself in their place and what would make you come out saying it was a good time?


Edited by timetravel (02/10/04 10:43 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322079 - 02/10/04 10:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sure he's used to living in worse conditions.


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2322089 - 02/10/04 10:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Sure but that place is worse. I've seen the poor of this world, they don't like prison.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322120 - 02/10/04 10:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Thats how one can tell they reprogrammed him.



pssstttt...... you weren't supposed to tell. Now everyone knows the secret code!

The fact is neither you or I know whether the story is accurate or not.


Quote:

what would make you come out saying it was a good time?



If I led his life? Quite possibly just what he got. Again, neither of us know what his life was like. Perhaps this was actually several steps above what he is used to.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2322156 - 02/10/04 10:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You are right, we don't know whether the story is accurate or not.
Quote:

what would make you come out saying it was a good time?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If I led his life? Quite possibly just what he got. Again, neither of us know what his life was like. Perhaps this was actually several steps above what he is used to.



There is a truth, and thats prison is always worse than anything else. Americans are so down on being poor that they can imagine prison being better than being poor.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322193 - 02/10/04 11:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There is a truth, and thats prison is always worse than anything else.



So now you not only know the kid was reprogrammed, you also have amazing insight into the minds of every prisoner world-wide? You are quite the amazing fellow.


You've never read or heard of people who actually prefer jail? While not common it's not unheard of.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibletimetravel
I'm going toMars!

Registered: 12/08/03
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2322223 - 02/10/04 11:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)



Quote:

So now you not only know the kid was reprogrammed



I did'nt mind being detained because I got new clothes. Does that sound logical to you?

Quote:

You've never read or heard of people who actually prefer jail? While not common it's not unheard of.




These kids got pulled off the streets. Usually those few who seek refuge in the prison system do so on their own, and usually after being introduced to it at a young age.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322307 - 02/10/04 11:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Perhaps his life was so shitty, he preferred getting food, water, clothing, books, and learning to read and write English?

You assume because jail is the worst possible option for you, that it's the same for him.


Quote:

They gave me a good time in Cuba.


It could very well be the first time in his life he didn't have to struggle to survive. While being there may not be your or my idea of a good time, it may be the first time that 15 year old farmboy with no time or money for an education has had a chance to kick back and do what many teens seem to want to do. Nothing at all.

Why would you automatically assume the worst?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322355 - 02/10/04 11:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Actually it was an elderly Afghan farmer who was happy he got new clothes.  Can old people be reprogrammed too? :confused:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2322419 - 02/10/04 11:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You assume because jail is the worst possible option for you, that it's the same for him.




There are few things in life one is allowed to assume. Jail (esp. by foriegn captors who accuse and plan to excute you of something you think you are innocent of) is one of those universal things all people consider the worst possible option. Torture is another.
Quote:

It could very well be the first time in his life he didn't have to struggle to survive.



And I think it was a time in his life where he had to struggle the most.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2322431 - 02/10/04 11:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

  Can old people be reprogrammed too?



Sure can, but it wears off. :grin:


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: timetravel]
    #2322461 - 02/10/04 11:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There are few things in life one is allowed to assume. Jail (esp. by foriegn captors who accuse and plan to excute you of something you think you are innocent of)




What makes you believe they think they're innocent? By what they say? So they tell the truth, but we're liars? And why do you assume we plan on executing them?

Quote:

accuse and plan to excute you of something you think you are innocent of) is one of those universal things all people consider the worst possible option. Torture is another.




Jesus didn't seem to mind.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2322515 - 02/11/04 12:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Haha. When I saw the title of this thread, I thought I was going to read about inmates partying on top of tables with a bottle of wine in each hand and dancing to "Anyway You Want It" by Journey at full blast.

:lol:






--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good [Re: Learyfan]
    #2322526 - 02/11/04 12:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That would have been far more entertaining.

I guess I could check The National Enquiror's site. :tongue:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2322544 - 02/11/04 12:11 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, 'cause we all know false imprisonment is cool, as long as you treat your captives well...WTF?


Quote:




While Mohammed praised the American soldiers who watched over him, he criticised the US authorities for failing to contact his parents for 10 months to let them know that he was alive. "They stole 14 months of my life, and my family's life. I was entirely innocent: just a poor boy looking for work," he said.
Quote:






--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Edited by Madtowntripper (02/11/04 12:12 AM)


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Offlineddaedalus
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good [Re: timetravel]
    #2322576 - 02/11/04 12:16 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There is a truth, and thats prison is always worse than anything else. Americans are so down on being poor that they can imagine prison being better than being poor.





Don't forget this is an outdoor prison on a Cuban beach. If Cuba's political history had been a little different, us Americans would be paying 200$ a night to sit around and do absolutely nothing on that very same beach!


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Invisibletimetravel
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Re: Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2322697 - 02/11/04 12:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)



Quote:

What makes you believe they think they're innocent?




If they were guilty they would still be there, but the gov got the truth out of those kids, cause kids crack first and its pretty easy to verify if they are telling the truth in such a setting.

Quote:

So they tell the truth, but we're liars?




The kids told the truth. The gov got the truth they were looking for out of those kids otherwise they would be there. The government? I think they lie to us just about as much as they did to the Native Americans.

Quote:

And why do you assume we plan on executing them?





Thats what happens under military law in times of extreme fear of the enemy's ability to seriously disrupt society.

Quote:

Jesus didn't seem to mind.




He did mind. Even with his extreme faith he still cried out to his father imagining his father had forgot about him. Just like people do under the same situtations in prisons all over the world everyday.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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