Home | Community | Message Board


World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop: Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S
    #4300850 - 06/15/05 08:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican senators called on Wednesday for the rights of foreign terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay prison to be legally defined even as the Bush administration said the inmates could be jailed there "in perpetuity."



The prison, currently holding roughly 520 inmates, opened on the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in January 2002 in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Many of the detainees have been held for more than three years, and only four have been charged.

At a U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Republican Chairman Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania said Congress should help to define the legal rights of the inmates at the prison, which the panel's top Democrat called "an international embarrassment."

Delaware Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden (news, bio, voting record) asked Deputy Associate Attorney General J. Michael Wiggins whether the Justice Department had "defined when there is the end of conflict."

"No, sir," Wiggins responded.

"If there is no definition as to when the conflict ends, that means forever, forever, forever these folks get held at Guantanamo Bay," Biden said.

"It's our position that, legally, they can be held in perpetuity," Wiggins said.

Earlier, the committee's top Democrat, Sen. Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record) of Vermont, said the United States may face terrorism "as long as you and I live." He asked Brig. Gen. Thomas Hemingway, who oversees military trials of Guantanamo prisoners, if that means America can hold prisoners that long without charges.

"I think that we can hold them as long as the conflict endures," Hemingway responded.

"Guantanamo Bay is an international embarrassment to our nation, to our ideals, and it remains a festering threat to our security," Leahy said.

"Our great country, America, was once viewed as a leader in human rights and the rule of law, and justly so. Guantanamo has undermined our leadership, has damaged our credibility, has drained the world's goodwill for America at an alarming rate," Leahy added.

Critics have decried the indefinite detention of Guantanamo prisoners, whom the United States has denied rights accorded under the Geneva Conventions to prisoners of war. The prison, was called "the gulag of our times" in a recent Amnesty International report.

Hemingway said the military commissions created by the Pentagon were the appropriate forum for trying Guantanamo prisoners. Human and legal rights groups have said the rules created by the administration are heavily biased toward the prosecution. The trials have been held up amid legal fights.

Navy Rear Adm. James McGarrah called "rigorous and fair" the Pentagon's annual review of the status of Guantanamo prisoners -- a process that can lead to their release. In those proceedings, detainees are prohibited from having lawyers and cannot see all the government's evidence relating to them.

Lawyers representing Guantanamo prisoners criticized their treatment and the government's system for trying them.

"The (reviews) are a sham," said Joseph Margulies, one of the lawyers. "They mock this nation's commitment to due process, and it is past time for this mockery to end."

Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions (news, bio, voting record) of Alabama said: "This country is not systematically abusing prisoners. We have no policy to do so. And it's wrong to suggest that. And it puts our soldiers at risk who are in this battle because we sent them there."

Referring to detainees, Sessions added, "Some of them need to be executed."

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record) of South Carolina joined Specter and others who said Congress needed to get involved to better define the process at Guantanamo.

"I think it would be tremendously helpful if the Congress and the administration came together with some general statutory language to help define what's going on at Guantanamo Bay, to better define what an enemy combatant is, to make sure that due process is affordable," Graham said.

Specter noted that legislation he introduced in 2002 on legal rights of detainees had gone nowhere.

"It may be that it's too hot to handle for Congress, may be that it's too complex to handle for Congress, or it may be that Congress wants to sit back, as we customarily do, awaiting some action with the court no matter how long it takes," he said.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled a year ago that Guantanamo prisoners had the right to seek their release in federal court. But decisions in the lower court have been contradictory, creating what Specter called a "crazy quilt" of rulings.

http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://news...detainees_dc_13


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4300901 - 06/15/05 08:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"Referring to detainees, Sen Sessions added, "Some of them need to be executed."


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4301153 - 06/15/05 10:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Seeing as how the FBI got more half of the names wrong on the post 9/11 list of terrorists (claimed they died in the suicide attacks, but were still alive!), we can be CERTAIN that ALL of the Guantanamo Bay prisoners are guilty of attacks against the USA.  :rolleyes:

Gitmo Bay is merely a publicity test to see how far D.C. can trample rights without much dissent.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,332
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 13 hours, 17 minutes
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Swami]
    #4301217 - 06/15/05 10:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Gitmo Bay is merely a publicity test to see how far D.C. can trample rights without much dissent.




Heh. Interesting theory.






--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Tommy Jett - Groovy Little Trip



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4301996 - 06/16/05 01:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

gitmo and the rest of bushs' gulag archipelago cast serious doubts on godwin...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4302050 - 06/16/05 01:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If these are people that we could have legally killed in combat, why do we owe them anything? they should be greatful to be alive.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinenycomyco
Stranger

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 651
Loc: PA
Last seen: 8 months, 3 days
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: SoopaX]
    #4302908 - 06/16/05 10:55 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That argument doesn't work. The inmates at Gitmo were civilians. That doesn't mean that they were not guilty of any crimes, BUT the problem is that the US can declare any of these civilians enemy combatants without producing evidence.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: nycomyco]
    #4303012 - 06/16/05 11:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nycomyco said:
the problem is that the US can declare any of these civilians enemy combatants without producing evidence.



Exactly. Let us not forget that the U.S. government offered bounties to those turning in members of the Taliban. So impoverished people who have a beef with their neighbor, or just need some money, or would like some better grazing land that 'that guy' is using, finger some poor schmuck who just happens fall into the range of his greedy little radar... bingo, instant enemy combatant!


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Swami]
    #4303016 - 06/16/05 11:37 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

OK swami what do you think of this idea?



".....Well, if we decide we can't hold them forever, and they need to be tried, it seems to me that the appropriate thing to do is to give them full due process rights and full-dress criminal trials under the law...of the place they committed their crimes. Which is to say, the republics of Afghanistan and of Iraq, both functioning democracies with legal systems, should be eventually given full custody of these prisoners along with their legal dossiers, to give them appropriate trials. That would, after all, be full due process as required under international law......"


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 11 days
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4303122 - 06/16/05 12:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I say just send all of 'em back to Afghanistan. I'm sure they have been more than punished for something they may or may not have done and their country is pretty much in shambles. What else are they hoping to learn from these prisoners after all this time? ...especially since they have had no 'trial to determine if they are terrorists.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineVex
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1,284
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4303196 - 06/16/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i have a superb idea! we can just round up every single arab male on the planet and lock them away in prisons for the rest of their lives, then the women will either have to mix with other races or the whole lot of them will die off. then there will be no more terrorism and all that oil will be ours!!! weeee!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Vex]
    #4303207 - 06/16/05 12:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vex said:
i have a superb idea! we can just round up every single arab male on the planet and lock them away in prisons for the rest of their lives, then the women will either have to mix with other races or the whole lot of them will die off. then there will be no more terrorism and all that oil will be ours!!! weeee!




I'm feeling you on this one. This sounds like a good idea. It's good to find like-minded people in this forum.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineVex
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1,284
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4303233 - 06/16/05 12:48 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

yeah...it's so hard to find other people that are into genocide on a global scale these days  :rolleyes:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJ4S0N
human
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 284
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Vex]
    #4303252 - 06/16/05 12:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Why don't we put everyone thats in support of the genocide into a big boat or plane, and then send them to Iraq so they can fight the 'terrorists', then the military can be used to actually protect the country.


--------------------
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Vex]
    #4303253 - 06/16/05 12:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Why don't you give a real suggestion for how to deal with people training to be terrorists?


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 11 days
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: SoopaX]
    #4303256 - 06/16/05 12:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

How about the CIA just stops training them to be terrorists in the first place?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Rono]
    #4303261 - 06/16/05 12:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

As nice as the "Magic Time Machine" solution is, I think it's a bit improbable in the current situation. Other than magic time machines, do you have any suggestions


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 11 days
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: SoopaX]
    #4303293 - 06/16/05 01:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What magic time machine would you be referring to?
I'm talking about the present...do you think that Osama was the last 'terrorist' that the CIA has trained?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Rono]
    #4303306 - 06/16/05 01:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

OK, then problem solved! I asked what to do with the Gitmo terrorists and you said that we should stop training them. We have! You should rejoice in the streets! Unless, of course, you mean that the solution in the present is to change the past, in which case, we'll need the MTM? for some back-in-time changes.

So, to re-ask the question, do you think that their is anything that we can do NOW to the Gitmo prisoners? Release them into the wild? Have an "accidental" outbreak of E. Coli and destroy all of them? A big group hug? Kisses?


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity' -U.S [Re: Rono]
    #4303312 - 06/16/05 01:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
How about the CIA just stops training them to be terrorists in the first place?





Quote:

Rono said:
What magic time machine would you be referring to?
I'm talking about the present...do you think that Osama was the last 'terrorist' that the CIA has trained?




Your solution, then, is to stop training them in the first place, in the present. So, wouldn't you say that we have achieved the goal of not training the people in question in the present? Or are you mixing your tenses to avoid giving up the time machine?


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop: Scales

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Scalia Opinion on Guantanamo Inmates daimyo 558 7 03/27/06 06:21 PM
by AaronEvil
* Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )
Madtowntripper 12,214 259 12/27/10 11:47 AM
by Icelander
* Guantanamo Bay......Should Obama really close it?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
CurdledCave 7,947 152 05/18/09 11:37 PM
by Falcon91Wolvrn03
* Guantanamo Detainees Abused? Inmate says he had a good time
( 1 2 3 all )
HagbardCeline 2,592 40 02/14/04 11:12 AM
by Xlea321
* Guantanamo britons freed without charge Xlea321 1,286 12 03/12/04 08:38 AM
by Edame
* The Unabomber: A Hero For Our Time
( 1 2 3 all )
Turn 3,880 47 12/13/07 12:33 AM
by Compass
* Guantanamo testimony: U.S. let bin Laden's top bodyguard go Visionary Tools 468 3 07/28/08 07:53 PM
by zappaisgod
* Finally - Courts Rule For Guantanamo Bay Prisoners' Rights
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 2,642 48 12/25/03 04:31 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
3,403 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:

Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 18 queries.