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 silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse  [Re: afoaf]
#2647116 - 05/06/04 06:55 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think Al Franken said it best: Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: silversoul7]
#2647165 - 05/06/04 07:04 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wish Al Franken was my dad.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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TrueBrode
Stranger
Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: ]
#2647689 - 05/06/04 08:42 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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For once I do not think Bush did anything wrong here. He does not run the military prison system, and he certainly had nothing to do with the disgraceful treatment that took place. He's an insensitive (perhaps ignorantly numb is a better term) man that can't feign true concern to save his life, but yelling at him for actions he could not have possibly stopped or known about- that's what the press chooses to grab on to??? Spend all our money, encourage illegal immigration, watch the environment go to shit, pass that horrible medicare bill and how much backlash is there? A few murmurs. But people see some shocking photos of something he does not even remotely have any responsibility for, and it is on 3/4 of the day on CNN causing hell for him.
Rumsfeld is another story, because if he did have knowledge of these things (and from what I've read about Guantanamo, there have been some strong accusations), he needed to take some kind of action- whether or not that that warrants resignation, depends upon when he knew what and his plans to make changes. If they don't turn up enough evidence that Rumsfeld was "sitting with this for a while"- seemingly attempting to let it slide- which I doubt they will prove or insinuate, then I can understand Bush refusing to fire him, and the world feeling at ease with his resumption.
I feel disappointed with the reaction of some Americans, such as the Rush Limbaugh comments above. I don't care what Saddam Hussein or anyone else did. I don't care to what extent the behavior in question deviates from effective, just captivity- if it's wrong, it's wrong. I find those actions to be sickening, and from what I heard on the radio, they dumped phosphorous chemicals from lights on the inmates. They may have even beaten the inmates. I don't think making an example out of them is a bad idea.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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web page
Freed Briton tells of beatings
Guant?namo Bay returnees say police questions were 'charade'
Tania Branigan and Rosie Cowan
Friday March 12, 2004
The Guardian
One of the Britons freed from Guant?namo Bay spoke for the first time last night of the full horror of his ordeal.
Jamal al-Harith told how US soldiers brought in prostitutes to the camp, and paraded them naked in front of the many devout Muslims. The 37-year-old also claimed he was kicked, punched and assaulted with batons.
He told the Daily Mirror that detainees were shackled for up to 15 hours at a time in hand and leg cuffs with metal links to the skin. Mr Harith said punishment beatings were meted out by guards and prisoners were subjected to pyschological torture and mind games in an effort to break them.
This story has been out for months. The ONLY difference is that without the photos (which a "professional" POW camp would not allow out) al Harith's story is largely ignored.
Did Bush apologize for that? No.
web page
afghan prisoners beaten to death at u.s. military base
by Duncan Campbell, Guardian (London) - March 07, 2003
Two prisoners who died while being held for interrogation at the US military base in Afghanistan had apparently been beaten, according to a military pathologist's report. A criminal investigation is now under way into the deaths which have both been classified as homicides.
The deaths have led to calls for an inquiry into what interrogation techniques are being used at the base where it is believed the al-Qaida leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, is now also being held. Former prisoners at the base claim that detainees are chained to the ceiling, shackled so tightly that the blood flow stops, kept naked and hooded and kicked to keep them awake for days on end.
The two men, both Afghans, died last December at the US forces base in Bagram, north of Kabul, where prisoners have been held for questioning. The autopsies found they had suffered "blunt force injuries" and classified both deaths as homicides.
Did Bush apologize for that? No.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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AhronZombi
AhronZombi
Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: ]
#2648803 - 05/07/04 12:13 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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he is a simple little redneck lier. that loves oil. why doesnt he apoligize for planning 9/11 to push his war. why doesnt he apoligize for stuff he does to his own people with the patriot act
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 Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,652
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 5 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: AhronZombi]
#2648986 - 05/07/04 01:28 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why doesn't he apologise for killing all the moon people?
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This space for rent
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germin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 399
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2649176 - 05/07/04 04:58 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
Why doesn't he apologise for killing all the moon people?
 
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Semilanceata
No god, no boss
Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 841
Loc: República Federal Íbera
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Blah, blah, blah, blah...... welcome to reality. This is reality and happens everyday, everywhere, everytime... the rest is marketing and TV. They want to make you believe AMERICA is great and are a bunch of cool guys that don?t torture and kill. Fuck that!!!! You kill, you torture, you rape, you burn, you hang people... the same as others, and it has been this way always and it?ll forever. Do you really think muslims will hate you and do all the 11-S shit just because you live the way you live? It?s because you?ve been fucking aroung tooooooooo much time. Now it?s time to pay the bill. You just see the americans being burnt in Iraq, but where are the cameras when you are the ones doing the same? Like when U.S. army killed 3 press workers. How about Guantanamo, where are the cameras to show the way americans treat prisioners? Guantanamo is not much different than Auswitz!!!!!!
Use your head to think for yourself and not to believe what others tell you.
Bush is a fascist motherfucker that will never say: "I?m sorry for being the biggest moron on earth".
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Sr_Setahongo
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2649555 - 05/07/04 09:55 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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When Americans get burned to death and hung from bridges the people that do it get a party and a pat on the back.
Where did you get this from divided? The last I heard well over 600 men, women and children were slaughtered. Not quite sure how firing 500lb missiles into the town qualifies as a "pat on the back".
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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since you don't believe any source that is governmental, unless it supports your view of reality
get a grip TOYK, he apologised the day after I posted that. Do you want me to read Bush's mind now?
And as Swami says, he's apologising because he got caught.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,652
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 5 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Xlea321]
#2649654 - 05/07/04 10:41 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex123 said:
When Americans get burned to death and hung from bridges the people that do it get a party and a pat on the back.
Where did you get this from divided? The last I heard well over 600 men, women and children were slaughtered. Not quite sure how firing 500lb missiles into the town qualifies as a "pat on the back".
He was talking about getting a pat on the back from their cronies, not from their enemies.
Did you sincerely misinterpret what he said, or were you just being disingenuous again?
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This space for rent
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Edame
gone
Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Xlea321]
#2649819 - 05/07/04 11:58 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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...he apologised the day after I posted that. Do you want me to read Bush's mind now?
And as Swami says, he's apologising because he got caught.
I found it interesting that he didn't apologise to the Iraqis, the American public, or the rest of the world. He just mentioned the apology (in the past tense) he made to the King of Jordan, quite why the King of Jordan got an apology and not the Iraqi people I don't know.
"I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families,"
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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.
And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.
"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.
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grib
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: ]
#2649839 - 05/07/04 12:06 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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A little over a year ago they promised to 'shock and awe'. Well, they've definitely got the shock part covered...
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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: grib]
#2650012 - 05/07/04 01:15 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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well, I'm in awe of how quickly things are going to shit....
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Xlea321]
#2650456 - 05/07/04 03:02 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
And as Swami says, he's apologising because he got caught.
Trying to do some mind reading? Or did he call you up and let you in on his reasons?
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/07/04 03:04 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2650561 - 05/07/04 03:22 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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12 Afghani prisoners die of "natural causes". No pictures; no apology.
Torture in Gitmo Bay. No pictures (just a court martial of a chaplain trying to sneak out evidence); no apology.
Rumsfeld has admitted that he had a file on these abuses since January. No pictures; no apology.
60 minutes and many websites and other media air atrocities: nearly instantaneous apology.
You do the math.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Swami]
#2650727 - 05/07/04 04:02 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Math I'll do, assumptions I won't. To do otherwise is not only lame, it's pathetic.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/07/04 04:03 PM)
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germin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 399
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Semilanceata]
#2650788 - 05/07/04 04:21 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Semilanceata said:
Blah, blah, blah, blah...... welcome to reality.
hah.
Quote:
This is reality and happens everyday, everywhere, everytime... the rest is marketing and TV.
What, exactly, is this ever happening ever omnipotent reality? Tortuer? Torture isn't happening, say, in the chair next to me right now. Premise destroyed. Welcome to reality.
Quote:
They want to make you believe AMERICA is great and are a bunch of cool guys that don?t torture and kill.
Is the "they" the every major (amd minor) news agency in the entire known world that is displaying these pictures? Interesting way of doing it.
Quote:
Do you really think muslims will hate you and do all the 11-S shit just because you live the way you live? It?s because you?ve been fucking aroung tooooooooo much time. Now it?s time to pay the bill.
We've been fucking 'around' too much time? What sentiment are you trying to convey here?
Quote:
You just see the americans being burnt in Iraq, but where are the cameras when you are the ones doing the same?
Do you READ the news? Stories of Americans abusing prisoners are all over the news. Do you have actual evidence of Americans burning Iraqi's?
Quote:
Like when U.S. army killed 3 press workers. How about Guantanamo, where are the cameras to show the way americans treat prisioners? Guantanamo is not much different than Auswitz!!!!!!
You can't think of differences between Gitmo and "arbeit mach frei", and you think that we don't live in reality? Come on.
Quote:
Use your head to think for yourself and not to believe what others tell you.
I'm doing just that as I read your post.
Quote:
Bush is a fascist motherfucker that will never say: "I?m sorry for being the biggest moron on earth".
I don't think that many people would say that. I'm "using my head" to "think for myself" and to "not beleive what others tell you". That sword cuts both ways
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Jellric
altered statesman
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Bush on the prisoner abuse [Re: Swami]
#2652025 - 05/07/04 11:20 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't know why anyone is suprised by these atrocities. I seem to remember hearing on the news several months ago that we were routinely sending those we deemed as terrorists to friendly Arab countries for interrogation explicity in order to get around the Geneva convention or at least common standards of decency. There were no pictures at the time, but it doesn't take a hell of a lot of imagination to picture what was going on there. Those pesky cameras.
If anyone looked at my Stanford Prison experiment link, you will see what happens when untrained personel serve as prison guards. This is just speculation at this point, but I wonder if these untrained personel were deliberately introduced to the prison with a wink-wink nudge-nudge "go have fun boys!" Sick fucks. Then the interro-gators come in after the "softening up" process with someone else having done the bulk of their dirty work for them.
Evidently, outside contractors were hired to interrogate prisoners. Seems like yet another way of creating plausible deniability and distance for those seeking the information they desire.
My suspicions may be unwarranted. But I doubt it given past history.
This shit-storm (good word, Swami) sure shows no signs of dying out anytime soon.
The unreleased images reportedly show American soldiers beating one prisoner almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting inappropriately with a dead body, and possibly taping Iraqi guards raping young boys, according to NBC Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski. 
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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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