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thoughts on Terence McKenna?
    #22939432 -

Why is what he says so important? I hoenstly don't think its that great or insightful

Having an entire person's existence rotate around psyches is silly. Psyches are VERY powerful and interesting. But Idk if you could have the center of your spiritual practice as that

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: topdog82]
    #22939482 -

You know i love to listen to him while driving he takes my mind to places that my train of thought almost never touches.

Some of his ideas are fucking crazy, i think he believes the machine elves were real things.



I liked his one idea of limiting each couple to have 1 kid and the population would cut itself in half every 100 years or so.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell


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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: Asshat331]
    #22939562 -

I've recently had somewhat of a change of heart regarding Terence McKenna.

Of course this has been precipitated by me getting deep into the world of conspiracy theories. The main strain of a theory I've come across, which is quite strong and has lots of evidence, is the idea that there has been a group operating over the past 100 years or so, at least, with the plan of ending all borders and globalizing the world and creating a "new world order" under a one-world government.

We already live in a very globalized world, and I do think the earth is a beautiful place. However, I don't think humanity is anywhere close to being spiritually or morally ready to transcend the nation-state concept.

There are many reasons for why this globalism is being pushed. The more paranoid minded (of which I am a part) would consider this to be a plan to have a one world government with the power and authority to have complete control of the global population. A mix of "brave new world" and "1984". Have the people too happy on drugs and electronic stimuli to consider rebelling, and an omnipresent surveillance state in case they try. What is the purpose of this control? Ever more concentrated power and wealth for the elite, and a global slave class beneath them.

I think there is ample evidence of this happening. Those who follow this theory would call the process by which this happens "cultural marxism". It's the idea that by eroding traditional cultures, one is more easily able to implant new ideas into a population. Ideas that make them easier to control and ultimately less free and less powerful as individuals.

How does Terence McKenna fit into all of this?

Terence was a smart guy. A very smart guy. He is well read and highly literate in art and philosophy. He's a brilliant orator.

There are two ideas that Terence pushed heavily, which dovetail quite nicely with the idea of cultural subversion.

The first idea, which I think is true, is that Culture is like an operating system for humans. I think this is self-evident. But Terence takes it a step further and says "Culture is NOT your friend".

This is where now, recently, I start to disagree with Terence. I understand his idea, that culture itself is a system of control, and that we should all be free thinking individuals, and not fall back on culture or religion to do our thinking for us. And, in theory I do agree with this to an extent. However, I think culture is an incredibly strong force which holds societies together. And I think for that reason it is valuable.

In our case, our culture , that is, Western European Culture, has given rise to the enlightenment ideals of Freedom and Liberty and control over one's life.

I think that is something worth preserving, I think that kind of culture is most definitely my friend.

Take a look at what's going on in Europe right now. Their strongly feminist ideals of compassion and tolerance have propelled them to admit millions of refugees, who are now assaulting and raping people on the streets. And beyond that, the normal Muslim immigrants are outbreeding the traditional Europeans.

At current trends, Europeans will be a minority in Europe within 50 years, and the majority population will be arabs and other ethnic muslims, who will not value the enlightenment ideals that made Europe what it is today.

I do not want that to happen. Culture, and the reproduction of it through art and life, is something that promotes sexual reproduction. A strong culture, with strong values, encourages people to be healthy and have the resources to produce more people and teach the culture to them. It's an unbroken chain of human knowledge and experience. I think that is worth preserving.

Secondly. Going along with the "culture is not your friend" Terence proposes an alternate idea. He proposes an Archaic Revival. Where we look back to indigenous and pre-agricultural civilizations and adopt that kind of lifestyle in order to save the world from war, famine, global warming and insert disaster here.

I do not think that is a good idea. I'm sure there are aspects of value in indigenous cultures, I don't doubt that, but I don't think it's desirable for us to try to return to that state. The whole building up of civilization has been a denial of those pre-civilization tendencies. Furthermore, I think that kind of Archaic Revival would only make it easier for elite groups or other, stronger cultures (like Islam for instance) to take over whichever group has undergone this re-primitivization.

So, that's how I feel about Terence right now. Fun to listen to, but I think a lot of his prescriptions are really quite dangerous.

And this isn't even getting into the conspiracy theories that Terence McKenna was himself an agent of the government or other mind control groups to specifically push this idea for a specific purpose.

hint: Gordon Wasson, the guy who Terence idolizes, was on the Council of Foreign Relation and he worked with Edward Bernays, the guy who invented the term Propaganda and Public Relations.

...maybe that's why Terence's library burned down. Maybe it was to hide the evidence?


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All drugs should be legal

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: halo]
    #22939634 -

Op it sounds like you need to hear a few more hours of Terence.

Halo
Humans had freedom and liberty long before western culture. The archaic revival isn't about moving to the woods, it is about not being wasteful, protecting our planet, growing food having a sense of community with your neighbors. You love our culture but hate the Muslims. It's funny how our freedoms have only included blacks and women for about a hundred years. I find our cultures similar in many ways.



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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: GoblinKing]
    #22939674 -

I don't hate the Muslims. I just fear for the existence of my race of people.

If Muslims or any other group is kicked out of Europe they have their own countries they can go back to and improve. If whites get bred out of existence in Europe...well all that's left is America and Austalia, and America is already a multi-racial state and has been for some time. I support the right of all peoples' to have their homeland.

I've been listening to Terence McKenna for going on 9 years or so now. I've read all of his books (well, Food of The Gods, True Hallucinations, and Archaic Revival, not sure about the others).

I used to be a die-hard believer in what he said. And I would listen to his lectures as I fell asleep at night. I don't mean to discount everything Terence has said, but I do personally think that the "Archaic Revival" is a corrupt idea which if followed would bring about a new dark age or a neo-fuedal age.

As far as growing food, not being wasteful, connecting with our neighbors...those were all major tenets of western civilization just 60 or so years ago.

The archaic revival is about the destruction of the nuclear family unit which is the primary transmission point of culture. Culture begins in the family, it is where children learn from first.

Terence is not exactly pro nuclear family. He talks sometimes about Feminism and how great of a concept it is. One of the points stressed about the Archaic Revival, is the change from a Patriarchal Society to a Matriarchal one. That's one of the primary things about the archaic revival. Societies were primarily Matriarchal before the Agricultural revolution.

Terence talks about this in his books. The idea that in pre-civilization times, people would gather on the night of the full moon, ingest mushrooms or other substances, trip out, have group sex, and then shortly thereafter some women would be pregnant and would eventually have children. Due to the multiple sex partners it was impossible to establish a lineage through male figures, but it was obvious who your mom was, so society was organized around women in this way.

The changing sexual codes is a large part of the archaic revival. Some would see that as a good thing (yeah lots of hedonistic sex brah') but that kind of sexual environment is not conducive to monogamous family structures which have been the backbone of culture for thousands of years now. It's why often times when a military conquers another society they rape the women, it breaks their will and cements the superiority of the invading culture.  It's fucked up, but that's one reason why that happens.

You cannot have his revert to nature without this revert of sexual morality. Caring about the environment is great, but it's possible to do that without this archaic revival terence either wanted to bring about or thinks is already underway (he would argue that basically every major cultural event of the 20th century was a part of or precursor of the Archaic revial). We often hear Terence say things like the earth and human culture is going through the "birth pangs" and that society will emerge on the other end in a higher realm than we are now, whatever it may be.

Personally, I think Terence's talks are most valuable when he is talking about Literature or  Medieval Hermeticism and Alchemy, or History in general. He's really quite knowledgeable on those topics. But some of his other ideas, such as the Stoned Ape theory, have pretty thoroughly been disproven. And keep in mind his stoned ape theory is also a large part of the archaic revival, so the archaic revival, as an unconscious process which just happens...seems to unravel as well.

Also, Humans did not have much freedom before western culture. I mean sure, we are all free in a sense that we are endowed as free individuals by nature or God but it is only through force that we are able to secure those freedoms  for ourselves. Freedom means preventing others from taking that freedom away.

It's not easy to see our heros fall. But Terence was a cool guy who got to get stoned and talk about drugs for money.

Keep in mind, he was wanted by Interpol in the early 70s, yet by the early 80s he was giving lectures...yet he never mentions how he got out of his legal troubles.  Makes you wonder if  maybe he made a deal...


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All drugs should be legal

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: halo] * 4
    #22939687 -

McKenna is amazing if you read his shit as science fiction.
He's piss poor if you read it as actual science.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: halo]
    #22939696 -

Interesting to find yet another shroomerite very interested in and attached to the Caucasian race.

This isn't some fucked up movie playing itself out. Europe is already getting very angry. Poland has elected a far-right government already and other major European powers are possibly set to do the same in the coming elections, including France and Germany.

Europe will pull itself together. How many times in your life have you got worked up over nothing? Well you're doing it again, and all these genocide theorists are doing it too...

Most Europeans want Europe to be Europe, that won't change in a hurry.

Maybe it will get messy but this genocide crap is hysterical. Just think about what you're saying and imagining, that there are hordes of little dark people trying to breed with your precious white women and then enslave your nations. Are you sure you're not just really horny and kind of WANT this to happen? Are you sexually repressed?

How many white women have you been with, and do you put the pussy on a pedestal? I think these white nationalists such as on stormfront are just butthurt white guys who never had the guts to approach a beloved white woman and now totally fetishize white women.

The sad truth is that if these guys are so romantic about race they'll probably make great lovers to white women since that's what this is really all about - sex and romance, if only they could get their shit together and stop being borderline psychotic.

By the way Australia is exceptionally multicultural and has perhaps the highest rate of intermarriage in the world. In Melbourne where I frequently visit it's somewhat a rare sight to see whites in the city except on weekends. This is mainly because international students and tourists tend to congregate around the city during work hours, but you know what I'm saying.

All that said, I see some validity to the notion of race in terms of temperament, intelligence and general eligibility for the pressures of life, but it's hysterical to think it's more important than, say, living your own life, getting your shit together, contributing to society, fulfilling your dreams and, *gasp*, finding a hot white women to appease your longing that has turned into fetishism and conspiracy.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #22939723 -

topdog82 said:
Why is what he says so important? I hoenstly don't think its that great or insightful

Having an entire person's existence rotate around psyches is silly. Psyches are VERY powerful and interesting. But Idk if you could have the center of your spiritual practice as that


It's more about seeing how his ideas and talks inspire you to think and feel in different ways.  Some sort of different angle or reality, in a similar way that Phillip K Dick does, he presents a totally convincing reality with its own set of rules that twist and bend your mind.  Terrance put a lot of ideas out there, and in that way he was an artist.  He hit on the idea that all realities are as convincing and genuine as any other.

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: circastes]
    #22939730 -

It won't change in a hurry. I agree with your general premise. I don't think most europeans are actively subverting the existence of their nations and or racial groups.

This is a change that is generational. Right now the average European family as 1.3 children, lower than replacement rate. The average Muslim family in Europe has at least 3-4 children if not closer to 6. If current trends continue, in another generation or two Europe will not be as European as it is. Of course the feminist politicians think this is a good thing. They think it is a good thing that in the future most people living in German cities will not be ethnic germans.

In theory, I don't have much of a problem with multiculturalism. What I think is messed up is that it is only promoted in white countries. If multiculturalism was equally promoted around the world I probably wouldn't be as worked up about it, but it's not.  There's no push for multiculturalism in Africa or the Middle East, or Asia. Japan and South Korea LOL at Europe's self-destruction and they don't understand why they are allowing their culture to be destroyed.

Whites are a minority in the world. about 500 million so people are caucasian, Africa will soon surpass a billion people, and there's already almost 3 billion just between China and India alone.

I think Poland is one of the few European countries that has it's shit together, as well as many in Eastern Europe. If France and Germany want to preserve their culture, they'll probably elect far right governments as well.

Also Australia is not that multicultural. It's like 90% white. Tolerance and some intermarriage does not equal multiculturalism on the scale of europe.

And for the record I'm not very horny. I had a really bad trip 6 months ago and I don't really feel sexual desire very much anymore, it's a bummer. For what it's worth though, I've had sex with a number of white women, but of my 2 serious relationships one was with a beautiful Nigerian woman and the other was with this girl who is half mexican (really probably a quarter but i don't care).

It's not about wondering what if? We saw and heard about the rapes and sexual assaults in Europe on New Years eve. We remember the Female reporter in Egypt during the Arab Spring, who was reporting on it, and then she got surrounded and had her clothes ripped off by the crowd while people assaulted her. These things are common place in Islamic countries.  It's sad, and our societies are not perfect at all. And I don't think it's just about sex and romance, that's a small part of it, it's mostly about culture and ideals. Sex didn't become this dominating force in modern society until pushed their by people in advertising and the media in the 20th century.

Not to say sex wasn't a motivating force, but it used to be pretty much accepted fact that everyone would grow up and find a spouse and have children. And people usually did it pretty young too. People did not agonize over it nearly as much as they do today.

Again this goes back to the Archaic Revival. Part of modern society has been the assumption that, at least in public, every man would have one wife. Thus every man has an equal shot at reproduction and carrying on his genes. This gives him stake in his own culture, and as long as people feel that, they'll be willing to die for their country or culture and ideals.

What happens when this monogamy is loosened, is that you have women being even more selective in their mates, to the point that 80% of women tend to go for the top 20% of men. It's just in their genes and their nature to do so. Up until the whole culturally enforced monogamy happened, only about 40% of men actually managed to reproduce. But by equalizing that, and giving almost all men a change to reproduce, they also have a stake in their nation and culture and do not feel as hopeless. They have a family and thus they want to protect them and other families in their country.

We're seeing a reversion to the primitive ways where a lot of men don't have that chance. I know you made the joke about white nationalists being sexually frustrated, and I don't follow it too much or know anyone like that in real life, but it would not totally surprise me. I think it's probably both extremes, many of them may be losers, but I think many are extremely succesful as well. Regardless, consider this: there's probably more 30 year old virgins now as a percentage of the population than at any point in recent history, and yet, society is supposed to more sexually open and liberated than ever before.

I propose that this is exactly the kind of Archaic Revival Terence was talking about.


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All drugs should be legal

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: halo]
    #22939740 -

I love McKenna.


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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: halo]
    #22939742 -

halo said:
It won't change in a hurry. I agree with your general premise. I don't think most europeans are actively subverting the existence of their nations and or racial groups.

This is a change that is generational. Right now the average European family as 1.3 children, lower than replacement rate. The average Muslim family in Europe has at least 3-4 children if not closer to 6. If current trends continue, in another generation or two Europe will not be as European as it is. Of course the feminist politicians think this is a good thing. They think it is a good thing that in the future most people living in German cities will not be ethnic germans.

In theory, I don't have much of a problem with multiculturalism. What I think is messed up is that it is only promoted in white countries. If multiculturalism was equally promoted around the world I probably wouldn't be as worked up about it, but it's not.  There's no push for multiculturalism in Africa or the Middle East, or Asia. Japan and South Korea LOL at Europe's self-destruction and they don't understand why they are allowing their culture to be destroyed.

Whites are a minority in the world. about 500 million so people are caucasian, Africa will soon surpass a billion people, and there's already almost 3 billion just between China and India alone.

I think Poland is one of the few European countries that has it's shit together, as well as many in Eastern Europe. If France and Germany want to preserve their culture, they'll probably elect far right governments as well.

Also Australia is not that multicultural. It's like 90% white. Tolerance and some intermarriage does not equal multiculturalism on the scale of europe.

And for the record I'm not very horny. I had a really bad trip 6 months ago and I don't really feel sexual desire very much anymore, it's a bummer. For what it's worth though, I've had sex with a number of white women, but of my 2 serious relationships one was with a beautiful Nigerian woman and the other was with this girl who is half mexican (really probably a quarter but i don't care).

It's not about wondering what if? We saw and heard about the rapes and sexual assaults in Europe on New Years eve. We remember the Female reporter in Egypt during the Arab Spring, who was reporting on it, and then she got surrounded and had her clothes ripped off by the crowd while people assaulted her. These things are common place in Islamic countries.  It's sad, and our societies are not perfect at all. And I don't think it's just about sex and romance, that's a small part of it, it's mostly about culture and ideals. Sex didn't become this dominating force in modern society until pushed their by people in advertising and the media in the 20th century.

Not to say sex wasn't a motivating force, but it used to be pretty much accepted fact that everyone would grow up and find a spouse and have children. And people usually did it pretty young too. People did not agonize over it nearly as much as they do today.

Again this goes back to the Archaic Revival. Part of modern society has been the assumption that, at least in public, every man would have one wife. Thus every man has an equal shot at reproduction and carrying on his genes. This gives him stake in his own culture, and as long as people feel that, they'll be willing to die for their country or culture and ideals.

What happens when this monogamy is loosened, is that you have women being even more selective in their mates, to the point that 80% of women tend to go for the top 20% of men. It's just in their genes and their nature to do so. Up until the whole culturally enforced monogamy happened, only about 40% of men actually managed to reproduce. But by equalizing that, and giving almost all men a change to reproduce, they also have a stake in their nation and culture and do not feel as hopeless. They have a family and thus they want to protect them and other families in their country.

We're seeing a reversion to the primitive ways where a lot of men don't have that chance. I know you made the joke about white nationalists being sexually frustrated, and I don't follow it too much or know anyone like that in real life, but it would not totally surprise me. I think it's probably both extremes, many of them may be losers, but I think many are extremely succesful as well. Regardless, consider this: there's probably more 30 year old virgins now as a percentage of the population than at any point in recent history, and yet, society is supposed to more sexually open and liberated than ever before.

I propose that this is exactly the kind of Archaic Revival Terence was talking about.


wot :crazy2:

Listen, there are tons of lonely men out there, and also tons of lonely women.
It has nothing to do with the archaic revival, and everything to do with our modern TECHNOLOGICAL UTOPIA that divides people and keeps them isolated, man.


--------------------

Edited by Turtletotem (02/24/16 05:42 AM)

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22939753 -

^^^ I agree that modern technology plays a big part. I just think that said technology and lack of social cohesion is pushed by the same interests that would also benefit from an archaic revival.

Make people so isolated from one another that eventually they crack, resort to self-destruction, not just of themselves but of their own culture (because culture is not your friend) and then the power structures can come in an reorganize society to their benefit, all while positioning themselves as our saviors.


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All drugs should be legal

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: circastes]
    #22939798 -

No far right goverment will ever get a majority in germany. Its just not gonna happen. Merkel will be reelected as always

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #22941206 -

howsyournaggerdoin said:
No far right goverment will ever get a majority in germany. Its just not gonna happen. Merkel will be reelected as always


This is true. I also understand that in Germany it's considered racist to display the German flag unless it's at a soccer game. I don't see a country that is so ashamed of itself continuing to exist for much longer. Sad.


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All drugs should be legal

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: topdog82]
    #22941285 -

I love Mckenna, but I don't blame people for dismissing him. I see him as more of an artist than anything else.
I think some of his ideas have value, especially by virtue of their sheer  strangeness, when looked at as just interesting ideas to muse over and provide counterpoints to more orthodox views.

As for people who think of him as a literal prophet who presented a 'true' picture of reality, I just gotta say... no


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: topdog82]
    #22941611 -

To say he was anything other than a pioneer, intelligent mind, value to human kind, and wonderful speaker, is only a sighn of your misunderstanding of what he is and was about.

Giving a life to psychedelics is a Nobel attempt to try to help many many many people both knowledgeable in psychedelics and the none the wiser, not just psychedelics but the links he made to history, culture, future hopes and ideas. He did a incredible job at helping others and myself come to some level of understanding into somthing that people know little about. He helped make a map or guide as to using and exploring the world of psychedelics. I can't list enough the great things he done with his his time here. One of the greatest minds ever.


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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: Anahata]
    #22941660 -

Anahata said:
To say he was anything other than a pioneer, intelligent mind, value to human kind, and wonderful speaker, is only a sighn of your misunderstanding of what he is and was about.

Giving a life to psychedelics is a Nobel attempt to try to help many many many people both knowledgeable in psychedelics and the none the wiser, not just psychedelics but the links he made to history, culture, future hopes and ideas. He did a incredible job at helping others and myself come to some level of understanding into somthing that people know little about. He helped make a map or guide as to using and exploring the world of psychedelics. I can't list enough the great things he done with his his time here. One of the greatest minds ever.


I agree and am only quoting you because of your avitar


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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: Anahata]
    #22941681 -

Anahata said:
To say he was anything other than a pioneer, intelligent mind, value to human kind, and wonderful speaker, is only a sighn of your misunderstanding of what he is and was about.



I agree with all of those, but my reservation is with those who see him as a prophet or a genius beyond any that came before. He was a clever guy, and he said a lot of things no one else has said, but I also think he could have served his cause better by presenting himself in a more palatable way to regular people, and being more careful to present his ideas as purely entertaining conjecture for the most part.

some of his assertions are laughable tho, and I think he has a habit of twisting things to fit his theories


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: Ezuma]
    #22943155 -

He was like a plant-- or fungus- - -a conscious one, naturally.



He was truthful for the most part.

Don't take his perspectives as absolute truth; understand that they are his personal convictions, errors, experiences...both knowledge and belief.....then see him for what he was. I would have loved to hang out with the man.

Have any of you met him?


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Life without drugs lacks substance(s).

Edited by mikeisapro (02/25/16 02:32 AM)

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Re: thoughts on Terence McKenna? [Re: mikeisapro]
    #22943169 -

he was a man that did extensive experimenting with psychedelics and got famous somehow. hes got some cool ideas but i feel like everyone takes his word as absolute truth on certain things


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:
To define is to confine.

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