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What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing?
    #22909449 -

I was raised a christian. At school, home, and at church I have heard countless times about how having "faith" is such a good quality to possess. Someone being described as having deep faith, strong faith... etc is always depicted in a good way. You see even see politicians talking about how much faith they have in order to paint a nice picture of themselves. So for a long time I always just accepted that to have a strong faith was a very good thing. I think most people would share the same view.

But what is faith? Also, what does it mean to "believe" in something? Whether its Jesus or Allah or Astology or whatever. People always say "I believe in God" or "I have faith in Jesus." What does this mean? What is the difference between "believing" something exists and "knowing" something exists? Do you "believe" in trees? Or do you just "know" trees exists?

Faith - strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Belief - trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

Know - be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

So... it seems that to have faith and believe in something, is to admit that you proclaim something to be true, even when there is no real evidence for its existence. Theres a reason nobody ever says, "I believe in gravity" Because everyone knows there is gravity. There is no debate about this. To say you have faith in God is to admit that you realize it doesn't seem as if there is a God, but you pretend to know there is anyways.

So my question isnt about whether or not God is actually real. But when we break this down, we see that having a strong faith means to act as if you know something, when you actually dont. Why is this a good quality to possess?

EDIT:
Just found a good example of this in another thread titled "im starting to believe in magic". The poster doesnt state, "ive discovered magic" or "ive witnessed magic" .. he says he believed in magic. To state it like this, is to admit that there is no real evidence for magic.

You would never say "im starting to believe in mycelium" after first discovering mushrooms. Because once you learn about it, you just know of its existence. If you said you believed in mycelium, it would suggest that have yet to see any real evidence for mycelium. Id be curious about that posters input if you are reading.

Edited by SpinScratch (02/16/16 10:48 AM)

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch]
    #22910138 -

Faith = capacity for self-delusion.

It's prized by religions because it correlates with a will to submit to slavery.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: viktor]
    #22911233 -

Damn. Killjoy much?
I didn't understand or know what faith was until a divine experience happened to me.  Until then, I was much like viktor.
"The Leap of Faith" is essential for transcendence.


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

Tradelist

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22911566 -

BayerPhi said:
Damn. Killjoy much?
I didn't understand or know what faith was until a divine experience happened to me.  Until then, I was much like viktor.
"The Leap of Faith" is essential for transcendence.


I think I perfectly understand what faith is, which is why I dont have any. Has this experience you've had shown you that the divine is as real as say... the ocean? When I experienced the ocean for the first time, I never said I now believe in the ocean, or I have faith in the ocean. Because its plainly obvious that the ocean exists. To say that you had a divine experience, and now you have faith, implies that you still possess doubt or that you understand that the evidence doesn't hold water.

Not trying to be a killjoy, Im just trying to show that saying you have faith in something, really implies the opposite. Staying on the ocean analogy, if someone challenged my understanding of the existence of the ocean, that wouldn't be killing my joy at all. Unless there was a part of me that doubted the existence of the ocean.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch]
    #22911597 -

The only thing I have faith in is that other people are conscious. Everything else I either know or don't believe.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch] * 1
    #22911622 -

To me having faith isnt about being hopeful toward a specific outcome. Its about knowing that whatever happens is perfect...wether we like it or not.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch] * 3
    #22912633 -

You need to switch your definitions for Belief and Faith. I have Faith, but I do not have Beliefs. Faith is an open, contemplative attitude towards Transcendental Reality which cannot be conceptualized, hence it cannot be understood intellectually. Beliefs are ideas, concepts pertaining to a Mystery which cannot be understood. So Beliefs tend to be dogmatic formulae that are adopted as being true, and such dogma were created by others with an agenda which included a uniform agreement amongst Believers. Those who questioned the accuracy or truthfulness of dogmas were cast out because their doubts caused others to doubt. The uniformity was part of an agenda which sets an 'us' against a 'them,' based upon dogmatic Beliefs. If all peoples agreed to unify on the basis of Faith, there might be unity among the various religions of the world, but it is the different Beliefs which set everyone apart.

Faith is colorless. The Faith of Jew, Christian or Muslim is the same. Only descriptions of the messengers of Faith and the attributes of God that differ. Unfortunately, Faith of the 'Peoples of the Book' all harkens back to the biblical patriarch Abraham, whose blind obedience to God looks very psychotic by today's reckonings - cutting the throat of his 25 year old son Isaac, and Isaac acquiescing to the sacrifice! Today we call that a Folie à deux - a delusion shared by two individuals. Nevertheless, Faith is prior to Belief in ontological importance. I adopted several Beliefs over the course of my life and have simply ceased entertaining them in my mind, but my Faith has remained, unarticulated but present throughout my life.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch]
    #22921637 -

You ever hear that saying? You can do anything if you believe in yourself? It's the same as having faith in yourself. And guess what? Placebo pills are given to people for this very purpose. When you believe in something strongly enough, it can come true. And does anyone ever know if they're going to succeed or fail in life? Truth is, 99% of the population doesn't know shit. It takes faith in anything in order to walk a path in any direction.

So... You have faith in God? You have faith in the Devil? You have faith in yourself? Whatever you believe, it'll manifest to your liking. Choose what you want to believe wisely.

Edited by Leviticus969 (02/18/16 11:50 PM)

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: viktor]
    #22921640 -

viktor said:
Faith = capacity for self-delusion.

It's prized by religions because it correlates with a will to submit to slavery.


Define slavery? We are slaves to life and death. We are slaves to the system. The holy bible has set me free with it's truth and I now have solace in this fucked up world.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: viktor]
    #22923093 -

viktor said:
Faith = capacity for self-delusion.

It's prized by religions because it correlates with a will to submit to slavery.



Do you think the non religious person can utilize faith?  What about faith in yourself, faith in a friend?


Many people are raised in such ways that they lose focus in life without faith, sure this might be faith in a religion, but without that faith their lives have no meaning and they fall into a state of despair.

So if someones life loses all meaning without faith, or they could be happy and live a rich fulfilling life with faith, yet this would mean being a slave, well then which one does someone choose?


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©️

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: Leviticus969]
    #22923601 -

6Silent9Knight6 said:
viktor said:
Faith = capacity for self-delusion.

It's prized by religions because it correlates with a will to submit to slavery.


Define slavery? We are slaves to life and death. We are slaves to the system. The holy bible has set me free with it's truth and I now have solace in this fucked up world.


That's fine, whatever one needs, as long as you don't portray it as the "truth" to others.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch]
    #22929431 -

Quote:
But when we break this down, we see that having a strong faith means to act as if you know something, when you actually dont. Why is this a good quality to possess?


Perhaps suggesting that faith is the belief in the possibility of this, that, or the other is incorrect...??

I always thought if you place an impossibility where there could otherwise be an open door or a door to be opened...  You lock yourself out of or deny yourself true experiential knowledge like that of gnosis or 'religious' experience.(?)  A theoretical goal that is possible seems more likely to manifest through intent rather than an 'already decided on impossibility' that has been decided to be impossible.:grin:  To have faith, to me, seems to suggest believing that such and such is at least possible.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22929608 -

That must the thought where the quote, "With God all things are possible" comes from?


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

Tradelist

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22932187 -

We all have faith in something to varying degrees and along different forms.
So, what does it mean to carry on in your day-to-day function not understanding this truth and thus critiquing other people's degrees and forms of faith?

To do so correctly, you'd first have to know fully what that person's understanding and experiences are. Next, you'd have to maintain full knowledge of all that is possible in the universe.

You don't... yet you faithfully critique another under the belief that your subjective experience is the end-all-be-all. Funny that is.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: iiilil] * 1
    #22932357 -

The conscious development of faith is the transformative process of belief becoming knowledge. A quantity of faith can be called certainty. Certainty is determined and carried out by will through volition.

Faith will save your life. Someone without faith will likely never gain knowledge.


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Don't die tonight.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22932363 -

I many times like your commentary. Thank you for sharing that.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: iiilil]
    #22932383 -

iiilil said:
I many times like your commentary. Thank you for sharing that.


Thank you sir.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: Leviticus969]
    #22933088 -

6Silent9Knight6 said:
You ever hear that saying? You can do anything if you believe in yourself? It's the same as having faith in yourself. And guess what? Placebo pills are given to people for this very purpose. When you believe in something strongly enough, it can come true. And does anyone ever know if they're going to succeed or fail in life? Truth is, 99% of the population doesn't know shit. It takes faith in anything in order to walk a path in any direction.

So... You have faith in God? You have faith in the Devil? You have faith in yourself? Whatever you believe, it'll manifest to your liking. Choose what you want to believe wisely.


Sound remarks from a well travelled soul ^

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: SpinScratch]
    #22933360 -

SpinScratch said:
EDIT:
Just found a good example of this in another thread titled "im starting to believe in magic". The poster doesnt state, "ive discovered magic" or "ive witnessed magic" .. he says he believed in magic. To state it like this, is to admit that there is no real evidence for magic.

You would never say "im starting to believe in mycelium" after first discovering mushrooms. Because once you learn about it, you just know of its existence. If you said you believed in mycelium, it would suggest that have yet to see any real evidence for mycelium. Id be curious about that posters input if you are reading.


I think "faith" is for blind sheep who need a comforting voice telling them how to live.  But personal experience is for seekers, and I think seekers are rewarded. 

I'm the one that posted that thread about magic.  I "discovered" and "witnessed" magic a long time before I started to "believe" in it.  BUT....... (especially when you are speaking of the psychedelic experience) just because you have experienced something does not mean it's valid, that's the highway to delusional thinking.  Once my life started to align with the "magical" discoveries that I had, then I started to "believe" in it.  (Also, magic is an extremely vague term)

If I was to believe in what I just discovered without waiting for it to integrate into my life, then I would just be another faithful sheep believing something that I haven't experienced totally in depth.

I've often heard people say "I've discovered Jesus" or "I've found Jesus", but what they've really found is a false release to their guilty conscious and someone else's affirmation of what happens after death.

Someone else told them that "Jesus" can do the spiritual work for them instead of themselves doing it, and they loved that idea.  So now they go around telling people they have "discovered" or "found" Jesus and the more "faith" they have, the stronger their false sense of "the right thing" becomes.

I think seekers frequently doubt their "faith", and so they try to prove or disprove whatever they have faith about.  This either makes them see that what they were believing in was totally bogus, or they start seeing patterns that tie in with what they believe (let me also add that people see what they want to a lot of the times if they have no doubt).

With strong faith, there is no need for doubt.  And with no doubt, you are totally blinded.  Truth isn't comfortable for everyone, so that's why they need faith.

Edited by Ravendance (02/22/16 12:09 PM)

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Re: What does it mean to have faith and why is it a good thing? [Re: Ravendance]
    #22933440 -

True Christian saving faith is the gift of God.

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