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any "astrologers" around?
    #22678349 -

for the next 2 years or so, saturn is transiting my 1st house which has moon conjunct neptune. should i be scared? i am scared.

ive read some personal anecdotes about really hard times when saturn transit conjuncts someones natal moon and it being the "dark night of the soul". not again..


--------------------
look buddy,,

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: TrippeeChik]
    #22678384 -

Although interesting to read or talk about, I don't think any of it has much scientific backing - for what it's worth.

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #22678436 -

science is just another system like astrology. all these systems that fit into the grand system, if you will. astrology is very complex when we take into account every celestial body that affects each other and "fortune" cannot be determined by simple horoscopes. i understand where youre coming from and i dont want to turn this into a debate or anything..


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look buddy,,

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: TrippeeChik]
    #22678450 -

Likewise. Each is entitled to their view. I prefer to manifest my own destiny, along with a miracle or three.

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #22678650 -

Saturn isnt all just bad though.

read up on it's influence, if you can apply Saturn's lessons perhaps most of the malaise will be absent?

i'm no astrologer, though Saturn has given me many hard hard lessons--  I am still here.


--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: travelleler]
    #22684253 -

travelleler said:
Saturn isnt all just bad though.

read up on it's influence, if you can apply Saturn's lessons perhaps most of the malaise will be absent?

i'm no astrologer, though Saturn has given me many hard hard lessons--  I am still here.


youre right. saturn/earth is foreign to my makeup so that is just scary in itself. my saturn return was around 8 years ago and that was when i experienced my dark night.. this saturn transit will probably ground me a lot after it is done, which i am thrilled about. how i will get to that point, who knows.. repeating to myself "uncertainty is okay" seems to be calming right now.


--------------------
look buddy,,

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: TrippeeChik]
    #22684322 -

"We are born at a given moment in a given place and like vintage years of wine we have the qualities of the year and of the season in which we are born. Astrology does not lay claim to anything else." –-C.G.Jung


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22684343 -

Jung does not hold the monopoly on defining astrology...  Many cultures and people from various places and times all have their own version and neither you nor Jung are in any position to claim any are more valid or meaningful than the others.

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22684458 -

Jesus Christ dude I don't even believe in astrology, I just thought it was interesting.  I honestly do not care.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #22686680 -

Anyone can say what astrology claims is invalid, or nonsense, but the premise shouldn't be misrepresented. That is what is wrong with Jung's statement, I'd say. Astrology is an "understanding of stars", not an undersanding (and "misattribution") of the meaning of seasons.

I think you can see why. A season is going to differ completely in different latitudes, so that Australia's winter months are American people's summer months, and vice versa, but they are under the same stars. Within whatever provision of truth, it is clear that Western Astrology claims to follow the monthly signs and aspects of stars, not the seasons. Australians and americans will follow the same system of western astrology, as roughly the same stars are going to be found overhead, aside from a bit of tilt in the earth's axis, which makes the significant difference in season. So that reduction could be thrown out.

What Jung is talking about in seasons is not astrology, but it could be something more in his terms, and maybe it would make sense to look to that aside from his pretense about "sorting things out". There is probably a correspondence between season and deep psychological impressions that people have in birth, that could conceivably be studied and understood. There are many "layers" to things in general. I am not so sure how it would be practical or feasible to devise this kind of system or study though.

And that is the thing. What Jung describes may sound like a common sense basis, bringing a sense of naturalism to astrology, but he doesn't at all consider any pragmatics of such a methodological understanding but just airs his own assumptions. He doesn't ground the particular reductions of astrology he wants to make at all, and what he says is just theoretical nonsense in its own right.

Clearly, the problem that Jung is broadly dealing with, and projecting, is of the conceivable nature of a human psyche. It is something which in order to map, experiential bases have for anyone only corresponded with particular descriptions in a broad way.

For example Eastern Buddhists have a pretty grounded basis for understanding a human "psyche", but aside from suggestions of watering it down for westerners there is no doubt that eastern buddhists have certain assumptions, and a particular metaphysical tradition, which by association, we in the west are used to questioning.

For instance, in a conservative sense, the four noble "truths" are not propositions, or arguments in a scientific sense. Yet they are truths? They are experiential constellations that can and quite conceivably do pan out in experience. So I may believe it is true, that the nature of life is "suffering", but that is clearly an assumption, even if I think it is true. There is a certain logic to it, in that we are going to die, and lose what we have, so it could be roughly said that suffering is a fact, but buddhism also suggests more than that "fact of life" as an insight into letting go in life.

So personally, I think this insight is into the nature itself, not "psychological reality", or a place to routinely bracket off anything that isn't objective in experience. Buddhists paradigmatically question the existence of a "psyche" after all, or subjective ego, which is what westerners level all their skepticism or reductions to. So who is right in that kind of comparison?

In the case of comparing western psychology to astrology, the mistake is clearly in that astrology is clearly not suited for a market of laying claims, as it is suggested. When you come to it the premise is that there is some kind of effect of the stars in human life, and nobody is going to be able to argue or prove this, any  more than you could argue for the socratic oracular provision "know thyself". You don't prove you know yourself, you just do. You can know who you are and your fate without the stars.

In general astrology is based on an assumption, and moreover a seemingly physical assumption, that there is no objective proof of. It would rightly be called pseudoscience. But even if astrology is pseudoscientific, I do practice a bit of it. It is a good poetic language to be able to use with significant others. Anyone who is sincerely interested, I would say, know the hermeneutic circle. The hermeneutic circle says this. To do astrology you have to interpret life in terms of stars as well as the stars in terms of life. You can say that about alot of things and not just astrology, and maybe things that are more or less real. The premise is what it is.

I guess that is exactly what a pisces like me would say. :tongue:

Two fish tied by their tails, swimming in the opposite direction. What is that? It is a way of holding on and letting go.

Anyway, are the philosophers here because the other forum is slow?

Edited by Kurt (12/22/15 03:05 PM)

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: Kurt] * 1
    #22686957 -

I don't know enough to answer your question OP, but I have just gone through my Saturn return and transit saturn conjunct my natal moon, and it's been a pretty rough ride. Saturn is known as the great malefic, the stern teacher, so Saturn transits are often difficult, but it's nothing to be afraid of, especially if you look at it as an opportunity to learn.

I like what Kurt has said about astrology. I think it's good to think about it in terms of karma. The arrangement of the planets when you are born represent your personality and any big karmic lessons you are here to learn in this lifetime. An idea of these lessons can be gathered by looking at the position of the planets within the 12 houses, and aspects they make with each other in these houses. For example, a square (two planets at 90 degrees to each other) or an opposition (two planets as 180 degrees) will generally be a difficult or challenging area of your life, depending on which houses it occurs in.

As you live your life, the transiting planets in the sky will make aspects to your natal planets, and it is these influences that bring up life situations, obstacles, challenges, and even mood swings, which must be faced and dealt with. The moon for example, which moves very fast through the zodiac, has the most influence on our daily moods, because it is the closest body to us and moves the fastest. Slower moving planets tend to influence the long-term and the more major events in our lives. The thing is, none of it is set in stone. All the energy of planets do is influence us, and they can only influence us when we hold that particular energy inside us (our karma). Once we let go of the karma or energy associated with a particular astrological aspect, it no longer effects our lives, because we have learnt the karmic lesson associated with it.

As Kurt has mentioned, it's very difficult to prove that astrology works. Personally, I have closely studied the link between my life and my astrological chart, and for me there is no denying that there is a huge correlation. The problem is, all most people know about astrology is their sun sign, which although often does give a general description of a person's personality, it is such a small part of a huge picture. And then "astrologers" come along and do horoscopes based on just the sun sign, and attempt to make predictions about what is going to happen based off of this one aspect, and it's just becomes big joke tbh. No wonder astrology gets such a bad rep. But if you look at your chart in detail, and get to know what the houses represent, the planets, the signs, the aspects....There is so much depth to it that isn't understood by many who claim it is baloney.


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Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: PocketLady]
    #22690910 -

Quote:
During this period all like periods of my life were called forth to form a continuum, or at least a constellation, and so, far from forming the bland connective tissue between more eventful times, those times themselves became mere ligaments. Not the little lyrics miracles and luminous branching injuries, but the other thing, whatever it was, was life, and was falsified by any way of talking or writing or thinking that emphasized sharply localized occurrences in time.

But this was true only for the duration of one of these seemingly durationless periods; figure and ground could be reversed, and when one was in the midst of some new intensity, kiss or concussion, one was suddenly composed exclusively of such moments, burning always with this hard, gemlike flame. But such moments were equally impossible to represent precisely because they were ready-made literature, because the ease with which they could be represented entered and cancelled the experience...

Ben Lerner; Leaving the Atocha Station


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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: Kurt]
    #22704192 -

kurt and pocketlady, love both your posts..

ive heard jung became disillusioned with astrology later on in life or something? apparently he was trying to find a correlation between it and personality types. anyone know of this? i dont know if this is true or just hearsay.. havent researched it at all.


--------------------
look buddy,,

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: TrippeeChik]
    #22705151 -

He wasn't dissilusioned, because he never believed in it in the first place. He was simply approaching the Zodiac as archetypes, which he later regretted because of people's misinterpretation of his theory:

“I am not going to commit this mistake again, but shall make my point at once by anticipating the result: the experiment shows how synchronicity plays havoc with statistical material. Even the choice of my material seems to have thrown my readers in to confusion, since it concerned with astrological statistics. On can easily imagine how obnoxious such a choice must be to prudish intellectualism.” (Jung 1959)

I used to work with astrology until I learned about Sidereal and the whole thing became so muddled it was pointless, though I've heard that Tropical is for Ego and Sidereal is for "Higher Self."

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: Middleman]
    #22706856 -

Astrology is  a science.


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:adinkra:Nature's La Plug :rastafari:

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Re: any [Re: KMt]
    #22706968 -

Astronomy is a science. Astrology is a protoscientific symbolic system.

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Re: any [Re: Middleman]
    #22706989 -

Astronomy and Sidereal Astrology of the East go hand in hand.


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:adinkra:Nature's La Plug :rastafari:

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Re: any [Re: KMt]
    #22708673 -

It's like when people call alchemy a "quack science"
















.


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"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: TrippeeChik]
    #22715199 -

TrippeeChik said:
for the next 2 years or so, saturn is transiting my 1st house which has moon conjunct neptune. should i be scared? i am scared.

ive read some personal anecdotes about really hard times when saturn transit conjuncts someones natal moon and it being the "dark night of the soul". not again..


I hope you don't really believe that nonsense.  Check out some of Richard Dawkins' bbc documentaries on superstitious beliefs, they're on youtube.


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"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

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Re: any "astrologers" around? [Re: Middleman]
    #22716180 -

thank you rev. morton. that makes more sense..


--------------------
look buddy,,

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale, Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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