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InvisibleShroomismM
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Mutton
    #2239591 - 01/13/04 05:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Someone told me today that mutton is lamb meat that has been left out to rot for some weeks so that it peels off the bone nice and easy. Considering the only time I ever hear about it is in reference to medieval times and whatnot.. this wouldn't surprise me. I mean I know in Norway they eat rotten ("cured") uncooked shark meat  :crazy:.

So is this true? Is mutton really rotten lamb meat? At to top it off they probably boil it.. sickos.  :tongue:


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OfflineboOM
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2239594 - 01/13/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i don't know but about the shark meat in Norway...the only thing that i've heard the Norwegians eat that's weird is lutefisk (fish left to soak in lye). maybe it's those icelandic ppl (let's ask thor!) who eat the cured uncooked shark meat...i know there is a dish where they piss on the site where they bury sharkmeat for about 6 months and eat it afterwards...


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2239599 - 01/13/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Mutton was fresh or semi-rotten lambs meat. I think they left it for 2 days after they killed it. Then came back and skinned it. So the meat was tender. So you could peel it of the bone. Sort of like how they let steak sit.

But mutton was also fresh lamb.


Mutton = Lambs meat


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Invisiblesucklesworth
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2239603 - 01/13/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

mut?ton ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mtn)
n.
The flesh of fully grown sheep.


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Invisiblesucklesworth
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Re: Mutton [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #2239607 - 01/13/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

lamb ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lm)
n.

A young sheep, especially one that is not yet weaned.
The flesh of a young sheep used as meat.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Mutton [Re: sucklesworth]
    #2239613 - 01/13/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ok so mutton is sheep.. lamb is young sheep..ok

but yeah I think the shark thing might have been iceland and not norway


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2239651 - 01/13/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Mutton is good over a fire. Um troll food  :tongue2: yummmmmmmmmm.


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Invisiblesucklesworth
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2239661 - 01/13/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

how to prepare icelandic "rotten" shark

its called "harkarl" and there is lots of info if you search for it


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Invisiblezeta
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Re: Mutton [Re: sucklesworth]
    #2240733 - 01/14/04 03:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lamb is < 1 year, hogget is older than 1, mutton is a few years old or more


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2241436 - 01/14/04 01:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lamb is separated in to categories based on age.

mutton is the oldest, yes.. fully grown, i believe 2 years or older.

It is a very strong taste, which I hate.


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2242712 - 01/14/04 10:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well there are many steakhouses in this country that let their meat rot before they trim it, cook it, and serve it. Its called aging.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Mutton [Re: daussaulit]
    #2244384 - 01/15/04 05:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why don't you do some research on the process of aging. Aging is done to ALL meat. It takes 28 days for the flavors to kick in. There is NO rot. And dry aging, there is also no rot, but you have to trim up the outer layer, since it's dried out.

That was a very ignorant statement.


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Mutton [Re: Raadt]
    #2244444 - 01/15/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Raadt said:
Why don't you do some research on the process of aging. Aging is done to ALL meat. It takes 28 days for the flavors to kick in. There is NO rot. And dry aging, there is also no rot, but you have to trim up the outer layer, since it's dried out.

That was a very ignorant statement.




Well, perhaps I worded it wrong. Yes all meat is rested or aged for 2-3 days just for rigor mortis to dissapate. Then from here you can wet age or dry age. It doesn't matter which one you do. During this aging, enzymes and microorganisms break down connective tissues making it more tender and adds flavor. Also sometimes, mold will grow on dry aged meat, which must be trimmed away.

So:
decomposition = break down
bacteria = microorganism

Definition of rot from Marriam-Webster:
1a. to undergo decomposition from the action of bacteria or fungi

So when your aging meat, your rotting it, but its controlled rotting. Maybe you should have done your research.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Mutton [Re: daussaulit]
    #2244785 - 01/15/04 07:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

wrong again, aging is to allow the breakdown of enzymes present in the meat, through time, and only time. The enzymes break down, they simply cannot sustain themselves BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LIVING, but something that was created through the living tissue.

It is not caused by bacteria, in fact, the temperatures are controlled stringently in order to prevent any bacteria growth (usually about 36 degrees)

Go read some more.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Mutton [Re: daussaulit]
    #2244790 - 01/15/04 07:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

also, if you eat meat aged 2 days - it will taste like shit. Most meat you see in stores has been aged 2-4 weeks. 28 days being ideal.

Most meat you get is also wet aged, in cryovac. Dry aged meat is fairly rare due to the space it requires. Yes, sometimes it gets mold on the outside. But it's not rotting, everything is done by the purveyors to prevent rot, in fact. Rotting would be the bacteria eating it. This isn't happening, the stronger, tougher enzymes in the connective tissues are breaking down, due to the lack of oxygen (through the blood).


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Mutton [Re: Raadt]
    #2245642 - 01/16/04 08:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wrong again, aging is to allow the breakdown of enzymes present in the meat, through time, and only time. The enzymes break down, they simply cannot sustain themselves BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LIVING, but something that was created through the living tissue.



If something isn?t alive, how can they not sustain "themselves" when they never had the ability to do so in the first place?

Quote:

But it's not rotting, everything is done by the purveyors to prevent rot, in fact. Rotting would be the bacteria eating it.



You are thinking of spoiling. When something spoils it becomes unfit for use or consumption, and that definitely what the purveyors do not want. You can still eat it after it rots.

Now some of the information I'm getting is from this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...3769807-1071847
Its good fundamentals book and a starter book at many culinary schools.

Page 289
Wet Aging
Today, most proportioned or precut meats are packaged and shipped in vacuum-sealed plastic packages (sometimes known generically by the manufacturer's trade name, Cryovac). Wet aging is the process of storing vacuum-packaged meats under refrigeration for up to six weeks. This allows natural enzymes and microorganisms time to break down connective tissue, which tenderizes and flavors the meat.(the rest is about the weird smell it gives off when the package is opened)
Dry Aging
Dry aging is the process of storing fresh meats in an environment of controlled temperature, humidity and air flow for up to six weeks. This allows enzymes and microorganisms to break down connective tissues. Dry aging is actually the beginning of the natural decomposition process. (the rest covers moisture loss, possible mold growth, and trimming the meat)

Then after some quick searching:
http://www.askthemeatman.com/dry_aged_beef.htm
"Secondly, the beef?s natural enzymes break down the fibrous, connective tissue in the muscle, tenderizing it. Most of the tenderizing activity occurs in the the first 10 to 14 days."

http://bbq.about.com/library/weekly/aa030301a.htm
" If you have had a good, aged steak, you know it is more tender and flavorful than what you typically buy in the store. The reason for this is that aging allows natural enzymes to breakdown the hard connective tissue in meats and for water to evaporate away concentrating the flavor."

http://bbq.about.com/library/weekly/aa030301b.htm
"Since the meat is packed in it?s own juices the enzymes will breakdown the connective tissues and make it more tender"

http://www.roseda.com/RosedaBeef/dryaging.html
"Secondly, the beef?s natural enzymes break down the fibrous, connective tissue in the muscle, tenderizing it."

http://www.grillmeats.com/dry_aging.htm
"It's been decades since butchers first discovered that beef carcasses, left hanging for several days, ended up more tender and palatable as natural enzymes in the meat broke down proteins and connective tissue."


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Re: Mutton [Re: daussaulit]
    #2245966 - 01/16/04 01:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

now look up the definition of enzyme, it's not a bacteria eating the meat, which is 'rotting', enzymes are just natural proteins, not organisms.


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Mutton [Re: Raadt]
    #2246017 - 01/16/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I know that enzymes are just natural proteins, and proteins are just made up of amino acids. So why does it matter if enzymes in the meat break down? Enzymes aren't muscle tissue. Enzymes aren't what you aging and plan to eat, but the muscle tissue that contains enzymes.

The enzymes are in the blood stream of the cow, and there's blood in the muscles, so there are enzymes in the muscles of the cow. But, if I take a cup of fresh cow's blood, is it going to be tough because there are enzymes are strong and haven't broken down yet? If I age the blood is it going to get more tender because proteins manufactured by cells to regulate biochemical reactions "break down" after time?

I'm saying that the enzymes(and microorganisms(bacteria is a microorganism)) are breaking down the muscle tissue(and connective tissue) of the cow when you age it. Thats what makes it more tender, not because the enzymes haven't broken down.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Mutton [Re: daussaulit]
    #2246107 - 01/16/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

During the process of the enzymes breaking down, they break down the connective proteins they are attached to. Similar to the effect of peroxide. The molecule breaks down, and the extra oxygen molecule oxydizes whatever cell it's attached to.

Very rough explanation, but whatever. Sorry I said you hadn't done your research, however, i still don't think the aging of the meat is rotting. I think other culinarians would agree with me. I however have no way of proving exactly how much of the breakdown is due to bacteria, however at the temperatures it's kept, I highly suspect it's not very much. Nothing moves very fast at those temperatures, and I am still prone to believe that it's the enzyme breakdown (attached to the protein cellular structure), that's doing most of the work.


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Re: Mutton [Re: Shroomism]
    #2247690 - 01/17/04 04:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Mutton can also be a used differently in different parts of the US. For example, my bro in law raised sheep & he called mutton the oldest, toughest, and nastiest ones. It tasted like crap. And, the Navajo people eat mutton all the time. I was scared due to the previous example, but to them mutton is any sheep meat, except for lamb. They have mutton sandwiches, mutton stew and so on. Mutton on the rez is better than at my bro in laws. hehe


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"Everything that limits us, we have to put aside."  Jonathan Livingston Seagull


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