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Offlinecube talk
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What's your theory on this * 1
    #22295712 - 09/26/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think almost all of us can agree than mushrooms can or flat out do lead us to a higher way of living. I know personally I was going down the wrong path, even began to steal at one point and then it hit me like a bomb on my trips. I needed to straighten my life up permanently. My dad honestly thought I had two choices at one point in my life and that was either military or prison

What happened? I went to college lol. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for my mushrooms trips, I highly doubt that it would have ever happened.

There's studies out there where people have called just one trip one of the if not THE most significant event in their lives. One can truly understand why they are known as the great teachers, even one strain being flat out called, "golden teachers"

So, with that being said. Let's go back hundreds of years to south and central america. It's pretty well known the aztecs would slaughter thousands of people in sacrifice. Without googling it I believe the maya did somewhat similar things as well.

They both had access to what we now know as teonanacatl, and which we know is of course.. magic mushrooms. It's in their paintings, it's a way of life in a way for them so what gives?

What in the hell made these people do such ridiculously evil acts while having access to such an astonishing substance? I mean if they were smoking crack and doing meth, yeah I could understand it

Theories?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22296134 - 09/26/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe they took the teachings of shroom experiences too literal.

I mean to sacrafice people to appease their God is far out there and pretty damn twisted if u ask me.

The Aztec and Mayan had some strange practices, but human blood letting was by far the strangest.

They were super obsessed with time, maybe even paranoid about time and how things were going to evolve over time.


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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Offlinevoodoochild1000
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #22297517 - 09/27/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It was a different time and place....this was simply their way of life...

....hard to imagine their psychology....whereas we live in a society that shuns that behavior...and that shapes the morality we take into our PE...

......CRAZY shit though!:firstladyofapproval:


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post:canthelpbutlaugh:


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: voodoochild1000]
    #22298011 - 09/27/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Human sacrifice wasn't about the glory of killing other humans, it was about keeping the universe in balance and protecting the humans on earth. In aztec mythology, the gods ripped their own hearts out to keep the world alive. Humans are the beings who rule over this "world", while in other times other creatures were the top beings.

Also, if a person was sacrificed, they didn't have to go through the 13 levels of the underworld to reach the afterlife. They would instantly be taken to the realm of the gods, where they might be reincarnated as sacred creatures like the hummingbird.

But every person also took part in blood letting, as it was seen as even more sacred then the death of humans. Because it was giving your own life force to the gods.

Death was an ingrained aspect of aztec life. They didn't see it as cruel or an end. Aztecs were not a heartless society. I know many people who still practice a modern version of the aztec religion, and I know much about old aztec religion.

Aztecs would trade places with slaves they owned, and themselves would become slaves for 1 week a year. They were not supposed to treat their slaves or their children badly or could be punished severely. If an aztec man became a drunk, they could take away his wealth completely and disperse it to their children.


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Offlinevoodoochild1000
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22298055 - 09/27/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
Human sacrifice wasn't about the glory of killing other humans, it was about keeping the universe in balance and protecting the humans on earth. In aztec mythology, the gods ripped their own hearts out to keep the world alive. Humans are the beings who rule over this "world", while in other times other creatures were the top beings.

Also, if a person was sacrificed, they didn't have to go through the 13 levels of the underworld to reach the afterlife. They would instantly be taken to the realm of the gods, where they might be reincarnated as sacred creatures like the hummingbird.

But every person also took part in blood letting, as it was seen as even more sacred then the death of humans. Because it was giving your own life force to the gods.

Death was an ingrained aspect of aztec life. They didn't see it as cruel or an end. Aztecs were not a heartless society. I know many people who still practice a modern version of the aztec religion, and I know much about old aztec religion.

Aztecs would trade places with slaves they owned, and themselves would become slaves for 1 week a year. They were not supposed to treat their slaves or their children badly or could be punished severely. If an aztec man became a drunk, they could take away his wealth completely and disperse it to their children.





...:mindexpanding: thanks Achillita!


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post:canthelpbutlaugh:


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22310290 - 09/29/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
What in the hell made these people do such ridiculously evil acts while having access to such an astonishing substance?





not like this very second


oh wait - shit


why is it so hard to point my finger

....


:mushroom2:


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22311042 - 09/29/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
I think almost all of us can agree than mushrooms can or flat out do lead us to a higher way of living. I know personally I was going down the wrong path, even began to steal at one point and then it hit me like a bomb on my trips. I needed to straighten my life up permanently. My dad honestly thought I had two choices at one point in my life and that was either military or prison

What happened? I went to college lol. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for my mushrooms trips, I highly doubt that it would have ever happened.

There's studies out there where people have called just one trip one of the if not THE most significant event in their lives. One can truly understand why they are known as the great teachers, even one strain being flat out called, "golden teachers"

So, with that being said. Let's go back hundreds of years to south and central america. It's pretty well known the aztecs would slaughter thousands of people in sacrifice. Without googling it I believe the maya did somewhat similar things as well.

They both had access to what we now know as teonanacatl, and which we know is of course.. magic mushrooms. It's in their paintings, it's a way of life in a way for them so what gives?

What in the hell made these people do such ridiculously evil acts while having access to such an astonishing substance? I mean if they were smoking crack and doing meth, yeah I could understand it

Theories?





There was nothing "evil" about it for them - it was just part of their religion and way of life.  Don't practice cultutral relativism. :shrug:

Human sacrifice, as well as symbolic bloodletting, is common throughout history...the highest form of tribute to your "gods".

Mayan rulers did some amazingly strange numbers on themselves as well, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting_in_Mesoamerica

This is a closeup of "Lintel 24 at Yaxchilan, depicting Lady Xoc drawing a barbed rope through her tongue"



Quote:

Ritualized bloodletting was typically performed by elites, settlement leaders, and religious figures (e.g., shamans) within contexts visible to the public. The rituals were enacted on the summits of pyramids or on elevated platforms that were usually associated with broad and open plazas or courtyards (where the masses could congregate and view the bloodletting). This was done so as to demonstrate the connection the person performing the auto-sacrifice had with the sacred sphere and, as such, a method used to maintain political power by legitimizing their prominent social, political, and/or ideological position.




Do you suspect psychedelics (and other) drugs played a major role in the religion and ceremonies? :solidnod:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (09/29/15 09:33 PM)


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22313491 - 09/30/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

how do we know that the people who got control of that culture were not just the ones who swore off shrooms because their natures were such that they wanted power, not insight into reality, especially if that insight were such that it basically said: Power over others is illusory at best, in that there are no others; that society is not based on competition, but on people having enough feeling for one another to allow their next door neighbors to live in peace, and to not be constantly breaking in on one another, raping wives, kidnapping children for ransom, stealing  dogs to train them to fight--all of which is what currently--if we trust the media--goes on in Modern Mexico big time, a Mexico, by the way, that has for it's principle target of emulation, it's great neighbor to the North.Those who used mushrooms for insight were probably fairly thoroughly marginalized, just as they are today.

Of course there were others I suppose who used mushrooms just to get shitfaced ,who were all about cev's and oev's, who avoided thinking things through like the plague and were thus able to still participate in any amount of ritual carnage--and there are probably one or two of this type still around today doing the same--not, of course, around here.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

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Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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OfflineMysticMoteToter
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22331145 - 10/04/15 01:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Maybe they took the teachings of shroom experiences too literal.

I mean to sacrafice people to appease their God is far out there and pretty damn twisted if u ask me.

The Aztec and Mayan had some strange practices, but human blood letting was by far the strangest.

They were super obsessed with time, maybe even paranoid about time and how things were going to evolve over time.




Hey my dude not trying to be a dick or condescending but, have you read any of the Old Testament/Bible? The Bible, Quran, Torah, Bardo Thodol, etc, they're all pretty morbid and encourage/reiterate the idea of sacrifices (many calling for human/blood sacrifice) Human Sacrifice didn't start with the Mayans/Aztecs


--------------------

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Offlineendogenous
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #22331293 - 10/04/15 03:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The Aztecs were barbarians who invaded the Toltecs.

When the Aztecs, a nomadic and primitive group, arrived in the Mexican Valley, the Nahuas were already there.  The last of the Toltec civilization, the Nahuas were much more advanced than the Aztecs and had a religion based on the spiritual values of Quetzalcoatl.

A Spaniard, Sahagun, who studied the Mexican culture in the 16th century had this to say regarding the Toltecs:  "They had great experience and knowledge: They knew the quality and virtues of the herbs, and they left marked and known those that nowadays are used for healing, because they were also physicians and essentially the first in this art ... They invented the art of interpretation of dreams, and were so learned and wise that they knew the stars of the sky, had named them and knew their influences and qualities ... The said Toltecs were lovers of virtue..."

The Nahua tribe of Mexico had a religious belief in Psilocybin Mushrooms.  The word used for Them was "Teonanacatl" which meant "God's Flesh".
  -- http://psychede.tripod.com/Flesh


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlinevoodoochild1000
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22331676 - 10/04/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
The Aztecs were barbarians who invaded the Toltecs.

When the Aztecs, a nomadic and primitive group, arrived in the Mexican Valley, the Nahuas were already there.  The last of the Toltec civilization, the Nahuas were much more advanced than the Aztecs and had a religion based on the spiritual values of Quetzalcoatl.

A Spaniard, Sahagun, who studied the Mexican culture in the 16th century had this to say regarding the Toltecs:  "They had great experience and knowledge: They knew the quality and virtues of the herbs, and they left marked and known those that nowadays are used for healing, because they were also physicians and essentially the first in this art ... They invented the art of interpretation of dreams, and were so learned and wise that they knew the stars of the sky, had named them and knew their influences and qualities ... The said Toltecs were lovers of virtue..."

The Nahua tribe of Mexico had a religious belief in Psilocybin Mushrooms.  The word used for Them was "Teonanacatl" which meant "God's Flesh".
  -- http://psychede.tripod.com/Flesh





....very cool:bigyesnod:


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post:canthelpbutlaugh:


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: voodoochild1000]
    #22332103 - 10/04/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You do know the toltecs did human sacrifice and were warriors just as mch as the aztecs right? The Aztecs were a tribe that traveled from the north and formed a city at tenochitlan.

A lot of aztec technology/ culture/ religion were all influenced from the toltecs. Toltecs did just as much sacrificing as the aztecs.

Although it was said that there was a period of time that the Toltecs were ruled by Quetzalcoatl. There was 1 emperor of the Toltecs who eventualy banned Human Sacrifice(not blood letting though) but the kingdom did not like him and he was forced to leave the capital city.

:shrug: Tbh OP, you seem skewed about the knowledge of these cultures with a strong cultural bias towards how these society worked and WHY they did these things.


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OfflineMysticMoteToter
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22332726 - 10/04/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

All cultures have/had a bad side to them, doesn't mean they are wholly bad though


--------------------

:zaphod:   :zaphod: 


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Overview Effect
Fuck War, Feed Birds.



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Offlineendogenous
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22335469 - 10/05/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
You do know the toltecs did human sacrifice and were warriors just as mch as the aztecs right? The Aztecs were a tribe that traveled from the north and formed a city at tenochitlan.

A lot of aztec technology/ culture/ religion were all influenced from the toltecs. Toltecs did just as much sacrificing as the aztecs.

Although it was said that there was a period of time that the Toltecs were ruled by Quetzalcoatl. There was 1 emperor of the Toltecs who eventualy banned Human Sacrifice(not blood letting though) but the kingdom did not like him and he was forced to leave the capital city.

:shrug: Tbh OP, you seem skewed about the knowledge of these cultures with a strong cultural bias towards how these society worked and WHY they did these things.




"The Aztecs were a nomadic and primitive group that arrived in the Mexi
can Valley only two hundred years before the Spanish Conquest. They had
been conducted and governed by a witch called Malinalxochitl, and later on
by a warrior, Huitzilopochtli. They encountered in the Valley of Mexico
human groups, the Nahuas, of much higher cultural development and with a
religion based on spiritual values inspired by the great Quetzalcoatl, a god or
perhaps a man full of wisdom, who gave to the Toltecs codes of ethics and
love for art and science. All the Nahua groups settled in the Valley of Mexico,
inheritors of the old Toltec civilization already disappeared, had a great
veneration for Quetzalcoatl, god and man, father of knowledge and morals.
Human sacrifices, the horror of Aztec Society, were not practiced among the
Nahuas before the Aztec arrival
" (#).
-- Efren C. del Pozo
Institute de Estudios Medicos y Biologicos
National University of Mexico - from "Empiricism and Magic in Aztec
Pharmacology" in the book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22335489 - 10/05/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"This new discovery at Tula is of a tomb containing two dozen sacrificed children. They appear to have been sacrificed between 950-1150, during the Toltec Golden Age. Apparently, all but one of them were between the ages of 5 and 15"
http://www.banderasnews.com/0707/eded-humansacrifice.htm

Toltecs sacrificed, aztecs sacrificed, the Maya sacrificed... Mesoamerica's culture all had sacrificing. It wasn't just the aztecs. :facepalm:

Quetzalcoatl was the only god to not require human sacrifice, as he is the creator of mankind. The other gods wanted and needed human lifeforce(both blood and hearts, but blood from ones self was just as important). Quetzalcoatl is a god that is prevelant in Aztec, mayan, and Toltec civilizations. He did not want human life to be taken. But people would still give their own blood


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22335609 - 10/05/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"In April 2007, archaeologists uncovered the buried bones of 24 Pre-Columbian Mexican children – members of the ancient Toltec people who lived in Mexico from the 10th to 12th centuries AD. The bones were dug up at the ancient Toltec capital of Tula, and markings on the bones indicated that the children had been decapitated in a group and then buried together. Initial speculation is that this find may be evidence for child sacrifice among the Toltecs." -- http://ancientstandard.com/2007/05/08/did-the-toltecs-practice-child-sacrifice-ca-950-1150-ad/

"Aztec offerings were frequently buried in the ruins of Tollan (Tula) and, as noted below, Toltec artifacts were routinely looted from these ruins."  -- http://ancientstandard.com/2007/05/08/did-the-toltecs-practice-child-sacrifice-ca-950-1150-ad/

(From Sahagun) "They (the Toltecs) were very devout. Only one was their god; they showed all attention to, they called upon, they prayed to one by the name of Quetzalcoatl. The name of one who was their minister, their priest, [was] also Quetzalcoatl. This one was very devout. That which the priest of Quetzalcoatl required of them, they did well. The did not err, for he said to them, he admonished them, "There is only one god; [he is] named Quetzalcoatl. He required nothing; you shall offer him, you shall sacrifice, before him only serpents only butterflies." All people obeyed the divine command of the priest. And they had very great faith in the priest of Quetzalcoatl and were very obedient, very devout, and very reverent; for all obeyed, all had faith in Quetzalcoatl when he led them from Tollan." -- https://books.google.com/books?id=dhtlNuJHuKAC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=dan+m.+healan&source=bl&ots=n6ewn9xgYU&sig=VRp_nR6F-WKrgxt8owr2B5v2ygE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwCGoVChMIg4CY0YmryAIVAT0-Ch237QGE#v=onepage&q=dan%20m.%20healan&f=false

"Bernardino de Sahagún (1499 – October 23, 1590) was a Franciscan friar, missionary priest and pioneering ethnographer who participated in the Catholic evangelization of colonial New Spain (now Mexico)."
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_de_Sahag%C3%BAn


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/05/15 04:18 AM)


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22335637 - 10/05/15 04:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very cool thread. I know virtually nothing of these cultures, so I'm just here reading it all and taking notes :strokebeard:


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22335942 - 10/05/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

These peoples had a true understanding of nature of reality.
This is why they built temples like they did. Many of them also were like resonance chambers(music of the spheres) and also aligned to the stars.
Just like most native and pagan cultures they were crushed under the iron heel of the egoistic western monotheism which still is alive in well in both the religious and skeptics.
Quote:

One thing about Bolon Yokte’s presence in the 2012 text should be emphasized.
Apart from symbolizing war, conflict, and the underworld, Bolon Yokte is a god that is often present during Creation events, often referring to the Creation event of 13.0.0.0.0 in 3114 BC, and most notably on the Vase of the Seven Lords.
So, what does it mean that a Creation Lord is present on the next 13.0.0.0.0, the one that falls in 2012 AD?
Although some scholars have commented that the incomplete text on Tortuguero Monument 6 doesn’t tell us much, they have overlooked the obvious: Bolon Yokte’s mere presence suggests that 2012 was thought of as a

Creation, a world renewal that, after all, makes perfect sense in the context of a World Age doctrine that sequences forward in intervals of 13 baktuns. This may seem to go without saying, but in fact my work has been criticized for characterizing 2012 as a “cosmogenesis.”
Here the scholars are one step closer to understanding 2012 for what the Maya knew it to a be: a rebirth and the beginning of a new World Age.




History was written by the victors unfortunately for us the victors were basically savages when it came to spiritual understanding where the native peoples were super enlightened but dumb when it came to technology.
This is what planet of the apes is really about.
We are the apes.






--------------------
It's all for the :lol:s


Edited by Eggtimer (10/05/15 08:07 AM)


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: What's your theory on this [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22335950 - 10/05/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, the toltecs didn't have a single god. Quetzalcoatl was the god of good. While Tezcatlipoca was the god of evil, war tyranny, ect. They still made sacrifices and revered Tezcatlipoca, because aztec religion is all about accepting the duality.

Whether the duality is in life and death, or good and evil. It has to exist. Sacrifices were not given to Quetzalcoatl, but they were given to Tezcatlipoca.

While there was more likely than not tons of other gods that the toltecs believed in and worshipped, not much is known because the toltec civilization was pretty much non existent by the time the aztecs took over and spain invaded.

The toltecs frequently fought in wars and sacrificed humans to the god Tezcatlipoca. Aztecs, mayans, Chichimecs and other civilizations got human sacrifice from the Toltecs, as it was the precursor civilization to all of these.

But if you wanna know something, there were literally skull racks found at Tula sites that predate the aztecs. Skull racks were later used by the aztecs for display of sacrifices.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22336129 - 10/05/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:


I mean to sacrafice people to appease their God is far out there and pretty damn twisted if u ask me.







Or MAYBE..just maybe...they have a whole different view of death. What if death is legit instant transcendence to heaven? If it is, then being sacrificed is a pretty good thing :lol:



but that's ridiculous and so are they for killing people. killing=bad


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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