Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinecube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
What's your theory on this * 1
    #22295712 - 09/26/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think almost all of us can agree than mushrooms can or flat out do lead us to a higher way of living. I know personally I was going down the wrong path, even began to steal at one point and then it hit me like a bomb on my trips. I needed to straighten my life up permanently. My dad honestly thought I had two choices at one point in my life and that was either military or prison

What happened? I went to college lol. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for my mushrooms trips, I highly doubt that it would have ever happened.

There's studies out there where people have called just one trip one of the if not THE most significant event in their lives. One can truly understand why they are known as the great teachers, even one strain being flat out called, "golden teachers"

So, with that being said. Let's go back hundreds of years to south and central america. It's pretty well known the aztecs would slaughter thousands of people in sacrifice. Without googling it I believe the maya did somewhat similar things as well.

They both had access to what we now know as teonanacatl, and which we know is of course.. magic mushrooms. It's in their paintings, it's a way of life in a way for them so what gives?

What in the hell made these people do such ridiculously evil acts while having access to such an astonishing substance? I mean if they were smoking crack and doing meth, yeah I could understand it

Theories?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,360
Loc: The Inexpressible... Flag
Last seen: 20 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22296134 - 09/26/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe they took the teachings of shroom experiences too literal.

I mean to sacrafice people to appease their God is far out there and pretty damn twisted if u ask me.

The Aztec and Mayan had some strange practices, but human blood letting was by far the strangest.

They were super obsessed with time, maybe even paranoid about time and how things were going to evolve over time.


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms:shroomeryhead:| Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm :tombstone: || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏                                                         
:sunny::bliss::mushroom2: Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise :mushroom2::bliss::sunny: :rainbowdrink: Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek :rainbowdrink: | 💧 Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method 💧 | :cacti::bongload: Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! :shpongle:Shpongle:shpongle:   


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevoodoochild1000
psychonautic
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades! Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #22297517 - 09/27/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It was a different time and place....this was simply their way of life...

....hard to imagine their psychology....whereas we live in a society that shuns that behavior...and that shapes the morality we take into our PE...

......CRAZY shit though!:firstladyofapproval:


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post:canthelpbutlaugh:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: voodoochild1000]
    #22298011 - 09/27/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Human sacrifice wasn't about the glory of killing other humans, it was about keeping the universe in balance and protecting the humans on earth. In aztec mythology, the gods ripped their own hearts out to keep the world alive. Humans are the beings who rule over this "world", while in other times other creatures were the top beings.

Also, if a person was sacrificed, they didn't have to go through the 13 levels of the underworld to reach the afterlife. They would instantly be taken to the realm of the gods, where they might be reincarnated as sacred creatures like the hummingbird.

But every person also took part in blood letting, as it was seen as even more sacred then the death of humans. Because it was giving your own life force to the gods.

Death was an ingrained aspect of aztec life. They didn't see it as cruel or an end. Aztecs were not a heartless society. I know many people who still practice a modern version of the aztec religion, and I know much about old aztec religion.

Aztecs would trade places with slaves they owned, and themselves would become slaves for 1 week a year. They were not supposed to treat their slaves or their children badly or could be punished severely. If an aztec man became a drunk, they could take away his wealth completely and disperse it to their children.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevoodoochild1000
psychonautic
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades! Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22298055 - 09/27/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
Human sacrifice wasn't about the glory of killing other humans, it was about keeping the universe in balance and protecting the humans on earth. In aztec mythology, the gods ripped their own hearts out to keep the world alive. Humans are the beings who rule over this "world", while in other times other creatures were the top beings.

Also, if a person was sacrificed, they didn't have to go through the 13 levels of the underworld to reach the afterlife. They would instantly be taken to the realm of the gods, where they might be reincarnated as sacred creatures like the hummingbird.

But every person also took part in blood letting, as it was seen as even more sacred then the death of humans. Because it was giving your own life force to the gods.

Death was an ingrained aspect of aztec life. They didn't see it as cruel or an end. Aztecs were not a heartless society. I know many people who still practice a modern version of the aztec religion, and I know much about old aztec religion.

Aztecs would trade places with slaves they owned, and themselves would become slaves for 1 week a year. They were not supposed to treat their slaves or their children badly or could be punished severely. If an aztec man became a drunk, they could take away his wealth completely and disperse it to their children.





...:mindexpanding: thanks Achillita!


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post:canthelpbutlaugh:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefilthyknees
no coincidence
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22310290 - 09/29/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
What in the hell made these people do such ridiculously evil acts while having access to such an astonishing substance?





not like this very second


oh wait - shit


why is it so hard to point my finger

....


:mushroom2:


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22311042 - 09/29/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
I think almost all of us can agree than mushrooms can or flat out do lead us to a higher way of living. I know personally I was going down the wrong path, even began to steal at one point and then it hit me like a bomb on my trips. I needed to straighten my life up permanently. My dad honestly thought I had two choices at one point in my life and that was either military or prison

What happened? I went to college lol. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for my mushrooms trips, I highly doubt that it would have ever happened.

There's studies out there where people have called just one trip one of the if not THE most significant event in their lives. One can truly understand why they are known as the great teachers, even one strain being flat out called, "golden teachers"

So, with that being said. Let's go back hundreds of years to south and central america. It's pretty well known the aztecs would slaughter thousands of people in sacrifice. Without googling it I believe the maya did somewhat similar things as well.

They both had access to what we now know as teonanacatl, and which we know is of course.. magic mushrooms. It's in their paintings, it's a way of life in a way for them so what gives?

What in the hell made these people do such ridiculously evil acts while having access to such an astonishing substance? I mean if they were smoking crack and doing meth, yeah I could understand it

Theories?





There was nothing "evil" about it for them - it was just part of their religion and way of life.  Don't practice cultutral relativism. :shrug:

Human sacrifice, as well as symbolic bloodletting, is common throughout history...the highest form of tribute to your "gods".

Mayan rulers did some amazingly strange numbers on themselves as well, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting_in_Mesoamerica

This is a closeup of "Lintel 24 at Yaxchilan, depicting Lady Xoc drawing a barbed rope through her tongue"



Quote:

Ritualized bloodletting was typically performed by elites, settlement leaders, and religious figures (e.g., shamans) within contexts visible to the public. The rituals were enacted on the summits of pyramids or on elevated platforms that were usually associated with broad and open plazas or courtyards (where the masses could congregate and view the bloodletting). This was done so as to demonstrate the connection the person performing the auto-sacrifice had with the sacred sphere and, as such, a method used to maintain political power by legitimizing their prominent social, political, and/or ideological position.




Do you suspect psychedelics (and other) drugs played a major role in the religion and ceremonies? :solidnod:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (09/29/15 09:33 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblechampinhom
Lord Justhappensness
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22313491 - 09/30/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

how do we know that the people who got control of that culture were not just the ones who swore off shrooms because their natures were such that they wanted power, not insight into reality, especially if that insight were such that it basically said: Power over others is illusory at best, in that there are no others; that society is not based on competition, but on people having enough feeling for one another to allow their next door neighbors to live in peace, and to not be constantly breaking in on one another, raping wives, kidnapping children for ransom, stealing  dogs to train them to fight--all of which is what currently--if we trust the media--goes on in Modern Mexico big time, a Mexico, by the way, that has for it's principle target of emulation, it's great neighbor to the North.Those who used mushrooms for insight were probably fairly thoroughly marginalized, just as they are today.

Of course there were others I suppose who used mushrooms just to get shitfaced ,who were all about cev's and oev's, who avoided thinking things through like the plague and were thus able to still participate in any amount of ritual carnage--and there are probably one or two of this type still around today doing the same--not, of course, around here.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMysticMoteToter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 2,036
Loc: Who nose.
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22331145 - 10/04/15 01:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Maybe they took the teachings of shroom experiences too literal.

I mean to sacrafice people to appease their God is far out there and pretty damn twisted if u ask me.

The Aztec and Mayan had some strange practices, but human blood letting was by far the strangest.

They were super obsessed with time, maybe even paranoid about time and how things were going to evolve over time.




Hey my dude not trying to be a dick or condescending but, have you read any of the Old Testament/Bible? The Bible, Quran, Torah, Bardo Thodol, etc, they're all pretty morbid and encourage/reiterate the idea of sacrifices (many calling for human/blood sacrifice) Human Sacrifice didn't start with the Mayans/Aztecs


--------------------

:zaphod:   :zaphod: 


Half Homo Hardly Sapient
Overview Effect
Fuck War, Feed Birds.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #22331293 - 10/04/15 03:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The Aztecs were barbarians who invaded the Toltecs.

When the Aztecs, a nomadic and primitive group, arrived in the Mexican Valley, the Nahuas were already there.  The last of the Toltec civilization, the Nahuas were much more advanced than the Aztecs and had a religion based on the spiritual values of Quetzalcoatl.

A Spaniard, Sahagun, who studied the Mexican culture in the 16th century had this to say regarding the Toltecs:  "They had great experience and knowledge: They knew the quality and virtues of the herbs, and they left marked and known those that nowadays are used for healing, because they were also physicians and essentially the first in this art ... They invented the art of interpretation of dreams, and were so learned and wise that they knew the stars of the sky, had named them and knew their influences and qualities ... The said Toltecs were lovers of virtue..."

The Nahua tribe of Mexico had a religious belief in Psilocybin Mushrooms.  The word used for Them was "Teonanacatl" which meant "God's Flesh".
  -- http://psychede.tripod.com/Flesh


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevoodoochild1000
psychonautic
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades! Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22331676 - 10/04/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
The Aztecs were barbarians who invaded the Toltecs.

When the Aztecs, a nomadic and primitive group, arrived in the Mexican Valley, the Nahuas were already there.  The last of the Toltec civilization, the Nahuas were much more advanced than the Aztecs and had a religion based on the spiritual values of Quetzalcoatl.

A Spaniard, Sahagun, who studied the Mexican culture in the 16th century had this to say regarding the Toltecs:  "They had great experience and knowledge: They knew the quality and virtues of the herbs, and they left marked and known those that nowadays are used for healing, because they were also physicians and essentially the first in this art ... They invented the art of interpretation of dreams, and were so learned and wise that they knew the stars of the sky, had named them and knew their influences and qualities ... The said Toltecs were lovers of virtue..."

The Nahua tribe of Mexico had a religious belief in Psilocybin Mushrooms.  The word used for Them was "Teonanacatl" which meant "God's Flesh".
  -- http://psychede.tripod.com/Flesh





....very cool:bigyesnod:


--------------------
....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD :vibin:

...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post:canthelpbutlaugh:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: voodoochild1000]
    #22332103 - 10/04/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You do know the toltecs did human sacrifice and were warriors just as mch as the aztecs right? The Aztecs were a tribe that traveled from the north and formed a city at tenochitlan.

A lot of aztec technology/ culture/ religion were all influenced from the toltecs. Toltecs did just as much sacrificing as the aztecs.

Although it was said that there was a period of time that the Toltecs were ruled by Quetzalcoatl. There was 1 emperor of the Toltecs who eventualy banned Human Sacrifice(not blood letting though) but the kingdom did not like him and he was forced to leave the capital city.

:shrug: Tbh OP, you seem skewed about the knowledge of these cultures with a strong cultural bias towards how these society worked and WHY they did these things.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMysticMoteToter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 2,036
Loc: Who nose.
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22332726 - 10/04/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

All cultures have/had a bad side to them, doesn't mean they are wholly bad though


--------------------

:zaphod:   :zaphod: 


Half Homo Hardly Sapient
Overview Effect
Fuck War, Feed Birds.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22335469 - 10/05/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
You do know the toltecs did human sacrifice and were warriors just as mch as the aztecs right? The Aztecs were a tribe that traveled from the north and formed a city at tenochitlan.

A lot of aztec technology/ culture/ religion were all influenced from the toltecs. Toltecs did just as much sacrificing as the aztecs.

Although it was said that there was a period of time that the Toltecs were ruled by Quetzalcoatl. There was 1 emperor of the Toltecs who eventualy banned Human Sacrifice(not blood letting though) but the kingdom did not like him and he was forced to leave the capital city.

:shrug: Tbh OP, you seem skewed about the knowledge of these cultures with a strong cultural bias towards how these society worked and WHY they did these things.




"The Aztecs were a nomadic and primitive group that arrived in the Mexi
can Valley only two hundred years before the Spanish Conquest. They had
been conducted and governed by a witch called Malinalxochitl, and later on
by a warrior, Huitzilopochtli. They encountered in the Valley of Mexico
human groups, the Nahuas, of much higher cultural development and with a
religion based on spiritual values inspired by the great Quetzalcoatl, a god or
perhaps a man full of wisdom, who gave to the Toltecs codes of ethics and
love for art and science. All the Nahua groups settled in the Valley of Mexico,
inheritors of the old Toltec civilization already disappeared, had a great
veneration for Quetzalcoatl, god and man, father of knowledge and morals.
Human sacrifices, the horror of Aztec Society, were not practiced among the
Nahuas before the Aztec arrival
" (#).
-- Efren C. del Pozo
Institute de Estudios Medicos y Biologicos
National University of Mexico - from "Empiricism and Magic in Aztec
Pharmacology" in the book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22335489 - 10/05/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"This new discovery at Tula is of a tomb containing two dozen sacrificed children. They appear to have been sacrificed between 950-1150, during the Toltec Golden Age. Apparently, all but one of them were between the ages of 5 and 15"
http://www.banderasnews.com/0707/eded-humansacrifice.htm

Toltecs sacrificed, aztecs sacrificed, the Maya sacrificed... Mesoamerica's culture all had sacrificing. It wasn't just the aztecs. :facepalm:

Quetzalcoatl was the only god to not require human sacrifice, as he is the creator of mankind. The other gods wanted and needed human lifeforce(both blood and hearts, but blood from ones self was just as important). Quetzalcoatl is a god that is prevelant in Aztec, mayan, and Toltec civilizations. He did not want human life to be taken. But people would still give their own blood


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22335609 - 10/05/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"In April 2007, archaeologists uncovered the buried bones of 24 Pre-Columbian Mexican children – members of the ancient Toltec people who lived in Mexico from the 10th to 12th centuries AD. The bones were dug up at the ancient Toltec capital of Tula, and markings on the bones indicated that the children had been decapitated in a group and then buried together. Initial speculation is that this find may be evidence for child sacrifice among the Toltecs." -- http://ancientstandard.com/2007/05/08/did-the-toltecs-practice-child-sacrifice-ca-950-1150-ad/

"Aztec offerings were frequently buried in the ruins of Tollan (Tula) and, as noted below, Toltec artifacts were routinely looted from these ruins."  -- http://ancientstandard.com/2007/05/08/did-the-toltecs-practice-child-sacrifice-ca-950-1150-ad/

(From Sahagun) "They (the Toltecs) were very devout. Only one was their god; they showed all attention to, they called upon, they prayed to one by the name of Quetzalcoatl. The name of one who was their minister, their priest, [was] also Quetzalcoatl. This one was very devout. That which the priest of Quetzalcoatl required of them, they did well. The did not err, for he said to them, he admonished them, "There is only one god; [he is] named Quetzalcoatl. He required nothing; you shall offer him, you shall sacrifice, before him only serpents only butterflies." All people obeyed the divine command of the priest. And they had very great faith in the priest of Quetzalcoatl and were very obedient, very devout, and very reverent; for all obeyed, all had faith in Quetzalcoatl when he led them from Tollan." -- https://books.google.com/books?id=dhtlNuJHuKAC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=dan+m.+healan&source=bl&ots=n6ewn9xgYU&sig=VRp_nR6F-WKrgxt8owr2B5v2ygE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwCGoVChMIg4CY0YmryAIVAT0-Ch237QGE#v=onepage&q=dan%20m.%20healan&f=false

"Bernardino de Sahagún (1499 – October 23, 1590) was a Franciscan friar, missionary priest and pioneering ethnographer who participated in the Catholic evangelization of colonial New Spain (now Mexico)."
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_de_Sahag%C3%BAn


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/05/15 04:18 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGoldenEye
...
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22335637 - 10/05/15 04:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very cool thread. I know virtually nothing of these cultures, so I'm just here reading it all and taking notes :strokebeard:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 3,097
Last seen: 4 days, 4 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22335942 - 10/05/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

These peoples had a true understanding of nature of reality.
This is why they built temples like they did. Many of them also were like resonance chambers(music of the spheres) and also aligned to the stars.
Just like most native and pagan cultures they were crushed under the iron heel of the egoistic western monotheism which still is alive in well in both the religious and skeptics.
Quote:

One thing about Bolon Yokte’s presence in the 2012 text should be emphasized.
Apart from symbolizing war, conflict, and the underworld, Bolon Yokte is a god that is often present during Creation events, often referring to the Creation event of 13.0.0.0.0 in 3114 BC, and most notably on the Vase of the Seven Lords.
So, what does it mean that a Creation Lord is present on the next 13.0.0.0.0, the one that falls in 2012 AD?
Although some scholars have commented that the incomplete text on Tortuguero Monument 6 doesn’t tell us much, they have overlooked the obvious: Bolon Yokte’s mere presence suggests that 2012 was thought of as a

Creation, a world renewal that, after all, makes perfect sense in the context of a World Age doctrine that sequences forward in intervals of 13 baktuns. This may seem to go without saying, but in fact my work has been criticized for characterizing 2012 as a “cosmogenesis.”
Here the scholars are one step closer to understanding 2012 for what the Maya knew it to a be: a rebirth and the beginning of a new World Age.




History was written by the victors unfortunately for us the victors were basically savages when it came to spiritual understanding where the native peoples were super enlightened but dumb when it came to technology.
This is what planet of the apes is really about.
We are the apes.






--------------------
It's all for the :lol:s


Edited by Eggtimer (10/05/15 08:07 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22335950 - 10/05/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, the toltecs didn't have a single god. Quetzalcoatl was the god of good. While Tezcatlipoca was the god of evil, war tyranny, ect. They still made sacrifices and revered Tezcatlipoca, because aztec religion is all about accepting the duality.

Whether the duality is in life and death, or good and evil. It has to exist. Sacrifices were not given to Quetzalcoatl, but they were given to Tezcatlipoca.

While there was more likely than not tons of other gods that the toltecs believed in and worshipped, not much is known because the toltec civilization was pretty much non existent by the time the aztecs took over and spain invaded.

The toltecs frequently fought in wars and sacrificed humans to the god Tezcatlipoca. Aztecs, mayans, Chichimecs and other civilizations got human sacrifice from the Toltecs, as it was the precursor civilization to all of these.

But if you wanna know something, there were literally skull racks found at Tula sites that predate the aztecs. Skull racks were later used by the aztecs for display of sacrifices.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22336129 - 10/05/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:


I mean to sacrafice people to appease their God is far out there and pretty damn twisted if u ask me.







Or MAYBE..just maybe...they have a whole different view of death. What if death is legit instant transcendence to heaven? If it is, then being sacrificed is a pretty good thing :lol:



but that's ridiculous and so are they for killing people. killing=bad


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,360
Loc: The Inexpressible... Flag
Last seen: 20 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #22336314 - 10/05/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very true.

Maybe it was the ultimate "honor" to the afterlife. Who knows.

All i know is when we all die, we will *hopefully* find the answers to one of the biggest riddles of all "Is there an Afterlife?".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22336554 - 10/05/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, they believed if you were sacrificed, you would be taken to the realm of the gods. Same if you died in battle, or during childbirth. You would not have to go through the 13 levels of the underworld to reach the afterlife.

IF you died any other ways other than the 3 I said, you would have to traverse the 13 levels of the underworld. Each level being a challenge that takes bravery, is incredibly painful, and each one gets progressively more difficult. Only through the sacrifice during life could you just bypass these trials. Whether that sacrifice be your own life to the gods, through death on the battle field, or sacrifice for another life(childbirth).

I'm just trying to enlighten you guys on the mentality of these cultures. Death is a part of life. It was ingrained into every part of the mesoamerican culture. Festivals of the dead were common(and still are practiced in mexico). Skulls were a common motif. Death wasn't a feared thing like it is in western culture.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGoldenEye
...
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22336567 - 10/05/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

13 painful challenges... Total manipulation scheme to find willing subjects to get sacrificed :rolleyes:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22336602 - 10/05/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Also, many sacrifices had willing people. They were treated highly for days to a week before sacrifice. You never treated the sacrifices badly, because they were a gift from man to the gods.

One celebration had a willing man trated like a god for a week and then killed. He was given women, food, and dressed in gold. :shrug: Worse ways to go :lol:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGoldenEye
...
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22336625 - 10/05/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's even more blatant :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22336653 - 10/05/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:shrug: Whatever works I guess :lol:

Sacrifices make sense in mesoamerican religion, because the gods sacrificed themselves to keep the world alive and have the sun rise. They want sacrifices as a sort of tribute to them giving up their physical forms for life to exist.

The only god that doesn't want life is Quetzalcoatl, and that's because he made humans.

The religion is still prevelant in many areas of mexico. Although a lot of times it is melded with Catholicism. But human sacrifice doesn't happen anymore. Blood letting is common with more traditional practitioners though.

People akin it to having the gods blessing by giving some of your own lifeforce.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22339439 - 10/06/15 01:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So far, I haven't seen anything that says why they think the "sacrifice" (if it was actually one), dated from the Toltec time. I would think they would have done a carbon 14 dating. I'm not an expert in carbon 14 dating technology, but from what I've seen, it wouldn't be surprising to see an error variability of 200-300 years. The end of the Toltec civilization was around 1200 A.D. The Aztecs gained power at around 1400.

Combined with the fact that the Aztecs buried their sacrifices in Toltec burial sites, I haven't seen any convincing evidence that these remains weren't from the Aztecs.

Also, from the writings of Sahagan, it certainly doesn't appear that the Toltecs worshiped any other god than Quezalcoatl. And Sahagan was certainly in the greatest position to report on this since he was only about 300 years away from the last of the Toltecs.

I guess it depends on how you would define a "Toltec". According to the story of "Quetzalcoatl":

"A number of sources enumerate the various rulers of Tollan, though there is considerable variation with respect to names of specific rulers and their order of succession. One of the best-known sagas concerns the legendary Ce Acatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl, a  Toltec priest-king so closely associated with the ancient Mesoamerican deity of the same name that the two are often considered one and the same. Despite many inconsistencies in the Quetzalcoatl saga, a number of scholars, most notably Nicholson (1957), have provided detailed analyses and interpretation of its contents, chiefly because of its relevance not only to the Toltecs but to Mesoamerican religion in general.

According to the saga, Ce Acatl Topiltzin, whose name derives from his birth in the year ce acatl (one reed) was  the son of Mixcoatl or some other Toltec ruler. He became ruler of Tollan (indeed, he may have founded Tollan) and was regarded as a benevolent, wise, and learned man (though mention is also made of his prowess as a warrior). Sahagun notes above that Topiltzin was a religious innovator credited with instituting the worship of Quetzalcoatl at Tollan at the expense of Tezcatlipoca, a tribal deity whose worship  required  human sacrifice. Topiltzin's stand against human sacrifice apparently touched off internal strife between his followers and those of  Tezcatlipoca, recalling the duality or multiethnic character of Tollan. This led to a series of allegorical confrontations between Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca in which the latter used deception and sorcery to triumph over Quetzalcoatl and his followers, who ultimately left Tollan in disgrace, as alluded to in Sahagun's final paragraphs presented above. Quetzalcoatl and his followers are said to have journeyed to Yucatan, where he ultimately sacrificed himself, to be resurrected as the deity Quetzalcoatl in the  guise of the morning star. His followers established themselves among the Maya and instituted the worship of Quetzalcoatl. These events are corroborated by Maya ethnohistorical accounts and the presence of Toltec iconographic and architectural elements at Chichen Itza and other Maya sites.
" -- https://books.google.com/books?id=dhtlNuJHuKAC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=dan+m.+healan&source=bl&ots=n6ewn9xgYU&sig=VRp_nR6F-WKrgxt8owr2B5v2ygE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwCGoVChMIg4CY0YmryAIVAT0-Ch237QGE#v=onepage&q=dan%20m.%20healan&f=false


Edited by endogenous (10/06/15 02:07 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22339464 - 10/06/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Except that human sacrifices are literally apart of the toltec religion. And every predecessor of the Toltecs(Chichimecs, Aztecs, and Mayans) all did human sacrifice. Literally their god of war wanted the sacrifices of Humans...

There is plenty of proof to show that toltecs did sacrifices. They had an emperor who outlawed human sacrifice, but he was kicked out of the city because the followers of the god who wanted sacrifices kicked him out for restricting them.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22339529 - 10/06/15 02:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think the evidence is clear at all -- which should be obvious.

"Quetzalcoatl" may have founded Tollan. The worshipers of Quetzalcoatl left Tollan at some point. How long they were there and when they left isn't clear.

What is clear is that Sahagan stated that the Toltecs worshiped Quetzalcoatl, and no other God -- and that human sacrifice was against the religion of Quezalcoatl.

That would seem to mean that if the people at Tollan before Quetzalcoatl, or after him, practiced human sacrifice, then they weren't Toltecs.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22340298 - 10/06/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They didn't just worship Quetzalcoatl though. There is so much evidence and proof of them having 2 gods (most lielly more). One being Quetzalcoatl, the gpd pf peace and humanity. And the other being Tezcatlipoca, the gpd of war and violence.

He demanded sacrifice and war. The toltecs went to war, they sacrificed. He wasn't the devil, nearly all toltecs worshipped him alongside Quetzalcoatl. Because it's the duality.

Simple searching on toltec religion and you'll find evidence of both gods. They were definitely not monotheistic.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22341033 - 10/06/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It seems similar to the "Christians". Christ said, "If someone strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek". So how can people who are into war and the death penalty say that they're Christians? Christ obviously would not call them that.

I think that the original Toltecs were a religion. People wanted to be thought of as being descended from the Toltecs, so people who didn't follow the original religious doctrines ended up claiming to be one.

"It appears, for example, that descent from the Toltec dynasties of Tollan was a sine qua non for legitimacy among the ruling families of the city states of Anahuac.  Accounts of the early years of the Aztecs in Anahuac mention their attempts to acquire the right to claim Toltec descent. In other respects, however, Aztec adoration of the Toltecs seems unique in  its intensity, often bordering on mysticism. Aztec offerings were frequently buried in the ruins of Tollan and as noted below, Toltec artifacts were routinely looted from these ruins." -- https://books.google.com/books?id=dhtlNuJHuKAC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=dan+m.+healan&source=bl&ots=n6ewn9xgYU&sig=VRp_nR6F-WKrgxt8owr2B5v2ygE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwCGoVChMIg4CY0YmryAIVAT0-Ch237QGE#v=onepage&q=dan%20m.%20healan&f=false


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22341060 - 10/06/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The toltecs had a religion. The religion influenced Aztecs and other societies in the area greatly. The aztecs adopted a lot of the toltec culture, and claimed to be the successors of them.

But Toltecs weren't monotheistic, and they weren't non violent.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22341923 - 10/06/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

yeahhhhhh idk where the FUK they got these ideas from, but my original intentions of this thread were saying that PERHAPS it came from psychedelics


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22343618 - 10/07/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I suspect they got the ideas from the same place as any other religion gets ideas - shit that appears to work.

Since when I dose heavy I very often get vivid Aztec imagery on the walls - complex as anything I've ever seen from any of the sites - I think they were essentially mainlining this stuff and took it wherever it led as a culture.  I don't get the urge to sacrifice people though - well, not lately. :shrug:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22343771 - 10/07/15 01:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's starting to look to me like the Toltecs were somewhat like the Jews. The worship of a "Feathered Serpent" existed since at least 400 B.C. "Quetzalcoatl" is the Nahua word for "Feathered Serpent".

It is thought that the reincarnation of Quetzalcoatl occurred in the 1100's A.D. He came from the Toltecs and ruled them. He banished practices like human and animal sacrifice.

Or it is similar to when King David ruled the Hebrews. The Hebrew "Messiah" was a combination of Prophet and King.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMysticMoteToter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 2,036
Loc: Who nose.
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22345861 - 10/07/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
yeahhhhhh idk where the FUK they got these ideas from, but my original intentions of this thread were saying that PERHAPS it came from psychedelics



Perhaps, or maybe there were actually gods such as the god of corn who sacrificed himself in order for corn to grow....idk sacrifice seems idiotic now because very few of us believe in things like this. Modern society is more driven by proof/science. However, if we still believed that mystic processes rule the world that we can't understand, we might still be doing weird shit like this. Just make science your bitch and you'll never have to worry about sacrificing your best friend on a heroic dose. :offthehook:


--------------------

:zaphod:   :zaphod: 


Half Homo Hardly Sapient
Overview Effect
Fuck War, Feed Birds.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMysticMoteToter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 2,036
Loc: Who nose.
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22345877 - 10/07/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I think they were essentially mainlining this stuff and took it wherever it led as a culture.  I don't get the urge to sacrifice people though - well, not lately. :shrug:



Pretty sure they were not shooting up mushrooms intravenously (the definition of mainlining.)


--------------------

:zaphod:   :zaphod: 


Half Homo Hardly Sapient
Overview Effect
Fuck War, Feed Birds.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #22346345 - 10/07/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's an f*ing euphemism, dude.  :raisemyglass:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMysticMoteToter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 2,036
Loc: Who nose.
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22347624 - 10/07/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i was just messin around my dude, i got what you meant haha  :havesomescience:  :hahyeahwoo:


--------------------

:zaphod:   :zaphod: 


Half Homo Hardly Sapient
Overview Effect
Fuck War, Feed Birds.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: cube talk]
    #22348419 - 10/08/15 01:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cube talk said:
yeahhhhhh idk where the FUK they got these ideas from, but my original intentions of this thread were saying that PERHAPS it came from psychedelics



They got the ideas from substances other than Entheogens - like belladonna, cocaine, opiates, etc.

The Religion of Quetzalcoatl worshiped Entheogens. They called Psilocybin Mushrooms, "Teonanacatl" which means "God's Flesh". The word "Peyotl" meant "Divine Messenger". The Rivea Corymbosa, a close relative of the Morning Glory, was called "Coaxihuitl" which meant "Serpent Vine", and the name of the God Queztalcoatl meant "Feathered Serpent". In other words -- Quetzalcoatl was the Serpent of the "Serpent-Vine".

Quetzalcoatl was known for banishing the practices of human and animal sacrifice. That is what came from the Son of Entheogens, Quetzalcoatl.

On the other hand, plants like datura "toloatzin", were used by the sorcerers who were into human sacrifice.

I would point out that the main "Manson" family murderer, Tex Watson, had ingested large amounts of belladonna (which is closely related to datura) and speed just before the murders.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22348481 - 10/08/15 02:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There was no religion of Quetzalcoatl... It wasn't one following. He was a single god. The god that created humans. The aztecs would serve magic mushrooms during sacrifices, as it was considered a gift to the gods.

None of these cultures were monotheistic. And while there were followers who were devout to a single god, they almost always worshiped the others gods aswell.

Opiates and cocaine didn't even exist for the aztecs and other mesoamerican societies. You keep looking at their religion and culture from a western and christian view. None of the societies were monotheistic, death was not considered a bad thing, and there is no evidence of any toltecs condemning these sacrifices other than the single ruler(who was kicked out by the majority of Tolan)

Datura wasn't even used commonly compared to magic mushrooms.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22348579 - 10/08/15 03:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You keep making statements as if you are an expert on this topic, but you rarely give references to back up your statements and the references you give are far from convincing. In fact, there is a controversy between scholars about the very "evidence" you claim to show that the Toltecs practiced human sacrifice.

You try to pass yourself off as an expert on indigenous people -- but you sound just like the "whites" who thought of them as savages to be slaughtered. You can't conceive of an indigenous group that was against slaughter of animals and humans.

There is no question about the story of Quetzalcoatl -- that he became the ruler of the Toltecs and banished human and animal sacrifice -- that he and his followers left Tollan and settled in the Yucatan and from there his Religion spread.

No bona-fide scholar denies the existence of this story and belief. There may be questions about the details of the story but there is no real expert who states that it didn't happen, and most believe that it did.

And the fact is that the true Religion -- the worship of the true God, Entheogens -- is the same story that happens over and over -- whether it is in the Middle East and Israel, or in India, or in Persia, or in Saudi Arabia, or in meso-America.

Maria Sabina, the famous Mexican/Nahuatl curandera, called herself a "Christ-woman". And the Native American Church, which believes that Peyote is a Deity, has a mixture of Christian and traditional beliefs.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/08/15 03:42 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22348606 - 10/08/15 03:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

She called herself that because at the point she lived, Catholicism and native religion have mixed quite a lot. The thing is, I'm not calling them savage. I am a native american, and I have aztec ancestry. I have talked to people who still follow many aztec customs. And I have talked to many people from mexico who have aztec and other mesoamerican beliefs ingrained into the culture there.

Most scholars do not believe that the god quetzalcoatl came to earth and ruled over the toltecs. There is no stories that I've ever heard of when he did that he banned human sacrifice.

The reason why Quetzalcoatl was not given human sacrifices was because he was the creator of huans. He went into the underworld, and used his own blood from wounds he inflicted on himself, to imbue the bones of the past fallen races with new life to create humans. The aztecs and the toltecs would often wound themselves and offer the blood to quetzalcoatl, just as he did for them.

When the catholic priests came to Mexico, they would reshape the ways the gods were to fit a more christian viewpoint. They turned gods and goddesses into saints, and matched many beliefs with christianity. Many saints would say that Quetzalcoatl was pretty much Jesus(or had similarities), so that more natives would convert.

Also, you seem not able to understand WHY they did this, at least not in the mindset and culture that mesoamerica had. You seem deadset on the idea that this was an evil for many people in that culture, and that there was some sort of savior god who banned it. When in reality that is not so.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #22349948 - 10/08/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MysticMoteToter said:
i was just messin around my dude, i got what you meant haha  :havesomescience:  :hahyeahwoo:





I figured that.  :mydesk:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22349963 - 10/08/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

cube talk said:
yeahhhhhh idk where the FUK they got these ideas from, but my original intentions of this thread were saying that PERHAPS it came from psychedelics



.They got the ideas from substances other than Entheogens - like belladonna, cocaine, opiates, etc

The Religion of Quetzalcoatl worshiped Entheogens. They called Psilocybin Mushrooms, "Teonanacatl" which means "God's Flesh". The word "Peyotl" meant "Divine Messenger". The Rivea Corymbosa, a close relative of the Morning Glory, was called "Coaxihuitl" which meant "Serpent Vine", and the name of the God Queztalcoatl meant "Feathered Serpent". In other words -- Quetzalcoatl was the Serpent of the "Serpent-Vine".

Quetzalcoatl was known for banishing the practices of human and animal sacrifice. That is what came from the Son of Entheogens, Quetzalcoatl.

On the other hand, plants like datura "toloatzin", were used by the sorcerers who were into human sacrifice.

I would point out that the main "Manson" family murderer, Tex Watson, had ingested large amounts of belladonna (which is closely related to datura) and speed just before the murders.




Datura will indeed bring you horrific visions.  But much of this is mere speculation, unless there are some first hand sources to support these claims, or significant archaeological reconstruction including substance residue to go by.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22351152 - 10/08/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
She called herself that because at the point she lived, Catholicism and native religion have mixed quite a lot. The thing is, I'm not calling them savage. I am a native american, and I have aztec ancestry. I have talked to people who still follow many aztec customs. And I have talked to many people from mexico who have aztec and other mesoamerican beliefs ingrained into the culture there.



You seem to think that because you are a native american, that makes you an expert on native americans.

I remember an exchange we had in the past in which you asserted that the Native American Church didn't believe that Peyote is a Deity. Then I posted facts that showed that they do, in fact, believe that Peyote is a Deity.

That you are a Native American doesn't mean you are an expert on Native Americans.

You can't just make statements and think they're true because you're a Native American. You need to back up your statements with proof -- facts --references.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22351705 - 10/08/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:facepalm: Peyote is metaphorically the flesh of god. The connection between the great spirit and earth. That doesn't make it god ffs.

It's literally documented that the catholic priests would convert natives by assimilating many of their belief systems. Same way the catholics converted the "pagan" europeans.

Have you ever seen a Day of the Dead celebration? It's based off of an aztec festival commerorating the dead. But they turned it more catholic and socially acceptable. Taking out the "pagan" ideologies.

Everything you keep saying is always based on bullshit and not realizing the view the natives had. You keep looking at it with a new age hippy ideology while not grasping at what they meant and the purposes behind it.

I've talked to people who are about as traditional as it comes to aztec religion. They pierce their flesh and use the blood as offerings to the gods. Pleasing the gods is what most mesoamerican religions are about.

I've talked to people who are in the NAC. They're not praying to the almighty peyote. They are praying to the great spirit(usually with tons of christian ideals, but not always). It's a sacrament, not actual god. Same as catholics don't believe that wine and bread are actually jesus's flesh and blood. Or rastafarians thinking cannabis is god on earth. It's a gift and/or representation of god.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22352974 - 10/09/15 01:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

In a chant recorded by Gordon Wasson at a vigil that took place on July 21-22 of 1956, the following are some excerpts of what the little ones (Psilocybin Mushrooms) had Maria Sabina say:

I am a woman born
I am a woman fallen into the world
I am a law woman
I am a woman of thought
I am a woman who gives life
I am a woman who reanimates
I have the heart of Christ, says
I have the heart of the Virgin...
I have the heart of the Father
I have the heart of the Old One
It's that I have the same soul, the same heart as the santo,
As the santa, says..."

Maria Sabina herself explains about lines similar to these that "the little things (the Mushrooms) are the ones who speak. If I say: "I am a woman who fell out by herself..." they say that because they spring up by themselves. Nobody plants them. 

-- http://media.smithsonianfolkways.org/liner_notes/folkways/FW08975.pdf





Maria Sabina is saying that the Psilocybin Mushrooms, (speaking through her), are saying "I have the Heart of Christ, I have the same Soul as the Saints".

You can curse all you want. The Truth is the Truth -- and no amount of your curses can change it.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/09/15 01:51 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22352989 - 10/09/15 01:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's because the natives were for the most part converted, and parts of the orignal culture were integrated into christianity. Christianity was not the original religion of that area.

But there are still people who are fairly traditional in mexico who follow the aztec gods. It is definately not commonplace though. What is common is the blend of catholicism and aztec undertones.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22353043 - 10/09/15 02:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's because that's what the MUSHROOMS SAID. They were Talking through Maria Sabina. They were verifying that They are the Heart of Christ -- They are the Soul of the Saints.

They are the True Flesh of God.

" You may say all these words to them: they will not listen to you; you may call them: they will not answer. 28 So tell them this, 'Here is the nation that will not listen to the voice of Yahweh its God nor take correction. Sincerity is no more, it has vanished from their mouths."
-- Jeremiah, 7, 27


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22353097 - 10/09/15 02:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

from One Nation Under God
by Huston Smith

Veneration of the small spineless cactus called peyote probably began immediately after the first hunter-gatherers discovered its remarkable effects. The Native American deification of the plant is estimated to be about 10,000 years old. Peyote cactus buttons uncovered in Shumla Cave in southern Texas have been radiocarbon dated to 5,000 B.C. The Huichol Indians of northwestern Mexico still use peyote sacramentally. Their peyote pilgrimage may have been in place by 200 A.D. Scholars consider it the oldest sacramental use of peyote in North America.

Huichols revere Peyote as the heart, soul, and memory of their Creator, Deer-Person. Huichol healers and singers achieve such union with their Creator, as incarnated in Peyote, that Peyote speaks through them, as here:

If you come to know me intimately, you shall be like me and feel like I do. Although you may not see me, I shall always be your elder brother. I am called the flower of Deer-Person. Have no fear, for I shall always be the flower of God.(1)

Deer-Person, the supreme teacher of the Huichol, teaches songs, reveals himself to shamanic healers through his Peyote spirit, and punishes those who violate his moral precepts. "It is because of the wisdom of Deer-Person," we are told, "that shamans exist. That is how we Huichols are able to diagnose diseases with our visionary ability and soul, which are the eyes of Deer-Person. That is our method of curing."(2)


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/09/15 03:01 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22354629 - 10/09/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
That's because the natives were for the most part converted, and parts of the orignal culture were integrated into christianity. Christianity was not the original religion of that area.

But there are still people who are fairly traditional in mexico who follow the aztec gods. It is definately not commonplace though. What is common is the blend of catholicism and aztec undertones.




Yeah, this.  It's impossible to reconcile it otherwise.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22354631 - 10/09/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
It's because that's what the MUSHROOMS SAID. They were Talking through Maria Sabina. They were verifying that They are the Heart of Christ -- They are the Soul of the Saints.

They are the True Flesh of God.

" You may say all these words to them: they will not listen to you; you may call them: they will not answer. 28 So tell them this, 'Here is the nation that will not listen to the voice of Yahweh its God nor take correction. Sincerity is no more, it has vanished from their mouths."
-- Jeremiah, 7, 27




:bsflag:

See, here's where you just flat out leave the rational realm behind.  Among other things, the mushroom spirits just love to yank your chain.  And you can't have this both ways, with you being correct in both. "Revelation" is not fact, and not capable of being used to argue for the veracity of drug induced visionary experiences wholesale.  Anybody with significant experience with psychedelics should already have learned to recognize this. :shrug:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22355009 - 10/09/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you primal soup :hug:

Quote:

endogenous said:
from One Nation Under God
by Huston Smith

Veneration of the small spineless cactus called peyote probably began immediately after the first hunter-gatherers discovered its remarkable effects. The Native American deification of the plant is estimated to be about 10,000 years old. Peyote cactus buttons uncovered in Shumla Cave in southern Texas have been radiocarbon dated to 5,000 B.C. The Huichol Indians of northwestern Mexico still use peyote sacramentally. Their peyote pilgrimage may have been in place by 200 A.D. Scholars consider it the oldest sacramental use of peyote in North America.

Huichols revere Peyote as the heart, soul, and memory of their Creator, Deer-Person. Huichol healers and singers achieve such union with their Creator, as incarnated in Peyote, that Peyote speaks through them, as here:

If you come to know me intimately, you shall be like me and feel like I do. Although you may not see me, I shall always be your elder brother. I am called the flower of Deer-Person. Have no fear, for I shall always be the flower of God.(1)

Deer-Person, the supreme teacher of the Huichol, teaches songs, reveals himself to shamanic healers through his Peyote spirit, and punishes those who violate his moral precepts. "It is because of the wisdom of Deer-Person," we are told, "that shamans exist. That is how we Huichols are able to diagnose diseases with our visionary ability and soul, which are the eyes of Deer-Person. That is our method of curing."(2)




Also, we were talking about the NAC, not the huichol. The Huichol people are not even near the US. I'm gonna be honest, I don't know much about them. But it still doesn't sound like peyote is god. I skimmed through a documentary about the huichol pilgrimage that happened recently, and they said that the gods(plural) speak to them when they take peyote. Everything is sacred to the huichol, as they are deeply animistic.

The Huichol have nothing to do with the NAC and do not see peyote as god. They do refer to it as the flesh of god, but it isn't god. Same way that christianity refers to wine as the blood of jesus. Is wine actually jesus's blood?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: Achillita]
    #22355171 - 10/09/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

SFAIK the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation holds that the bread and wine become literally the actual body and blood of Christ in the sacrament of the Eucharist, not merely symbolically.  What would be the point otherwise?  It's supposed to be miraculous...

What I can say from experience is that the mushrooms connect me WITH some sort of source of being.  They are not themselves the source of this source, or some sort of deity.  They are conduits, IME, to the hyperdimensional reality that underpins our own.  They invoke the holy and thus render it accessible and attainable - but only with the synergistic relationship that occurs between the human and the mushroom when one consumes the other.  In this sense we sacrifice their body to our purposes.  It's not a far stretch - and never has been if history is any guide - to extend the "sacrifice" to other forms, particularly when the preferred sacrament isn't available. 

However, this source of being that one connects with is generally incapable of being reliably interpreted back here in our ordinary reality.  Hence people get all sorts of different "revelations" and "truths" from it, all stamped with an incontrovertible evidentiary quality (aka qualia) of immense relevance and accuracy - an emotional trap if you don't recognize the basic inapplicability of the one realm to the other.  Those woods are thick.

:2cents:



--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (10/09/15 04:17 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22355472 - 10/09/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
It's because that's what the MUSHROOMS SAID. They were Talking through Maria Sabina. They were verifying that They are the Heart of Christ -- They are the Soul of the Saints.

They are the True Flesh of God.

" You may say all these words to them: they will not listen to you; you may call them: they will not answer. 28 So tell them this, 'Here is the nation that will not listen to the voice of Yahweh its God nor take correction. Sincerity is no more, it has vanished from their mouths."
-- Jeremiah, 7, 27




See, here's where you just flat out leave the rational realm behind.  Among other things, the mushroom spirits just love to yank your chain.




So I guess Maria Sabina and the Native American Church have "left the rational realm behind" and you are the All-Wise One.  :bow2:

"Quanah Parker is credited as the founder of the Native American Church Movement, which started in the 1890s. Parker adopted the Peyote religion after reportedly seeing a vision of Jesus Christ while suffering from a near fatal wound following a battle with Federal Troops.....Parker was given Peyote by a Ute medicine man to cure the infections of his wounds. During the Peyote experience, Parker claimed he heard the voice of Jesus Christ who then appeared to him, and told him in order to atone for his many killings and misdeeds, he must forsake a life of violence and take the Peyote religion to the Indian Peoples. Parker's words and teachings comprise the core of the Native American Church doctrine and the "Peyote Road".....Healers and singers achieve a union with their Creator, as incarnated in Peyote, Peyote speaks through them."
-- Searching for Spiritual Unity...Can There Be Common Ground?
By Robyn E. Lebron

"To the kind Thou art kind,
and true to the true.
To the pure Thou art pure,
and treacherous to the treacherous.
"
-- Psalm 18, 25


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/09/15 05:29 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStarless
Faux Philosophe
Male


Registered: 05/05/14
Posts: 243
Loc: BC
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22355787 - 10/09/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quoting people that are just as full of shit as you are does not make for a convincing argument. Do you have any actual evidence to support your claims?

Also, there are so many varying interpretations of any religious dogma that claiming any one of them to be objective and undisputed is ridiculous.


--------------------
Think, it ain't illegal yet. - George Clinton

Substances I have allegedly taken: Cannabis (bud, edibles, and concentrates), Mushrooms (P. Cubensis), LSD, ETH-LAD, ALD-52, DMT, MDMA, Mescaline (Peruvian Torch), 25I-NBOMe, Salvia Divinorum (10x), Syrian Rue, Amanita Muscaria (10x), Cocaine, Nightshade (Henbane).

All posts are hypothetical or entirely fictional.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22357291 - 10/10/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"Parker's most famous teaching regarding the spirituality of the Native American Church:

    "The White Man goes into his church house and talks about Jesus, but the Indian goes into his tipi and talks to Jesus."
" -- Hagan, William T. Quanah Parker, Comanche Chief. University of Oklahoma (1995), ISBN 0-80-612772-4, pg. 57

"As soon as Christian missionaries became aware of the sacramental use of peyote on their reservations they began to agitate against it. First in Oklahoma and later elsewhere, Indian agents joined the missionaries in lobbying to outlaw the substance. The Indians bravely defended their religious freedom in their respective states and in Congress. One of the most eloquent of these defenders was Albert Hensley, a Winnebago educated at the Carlisle Indian School. By 1908, Hensley and the Winnebago had come to regard Peyote as both a Holy Medicine and a Christian sacrament. "To us it is a portion of the body of Christ," Hensley said, "even as the communion bread is believed to be a portion of Christ's body by other Christian denominations."
-- Omer C. Stewart, Peyote Religion: A History (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1987), 157.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22357383 - 10/10/15 01:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SFAIK the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation holds that the bread and wine become literally the actual body and blood of Christ in the sacrament of the Eucharist, not merely symbolically.  What would be the point otherwise?  It's supposed to be miraculous...



You might have misunderstood me. It's a sacred thing, a sacrament. But it is not christ. They're worshiping christ, not the wine and bread.

Same with peyote. They aren't worshiping the peyote. They're using it in conjuction to worship what they worship. Many NACs are christian based, but there are quite a few one that are more native based.

Peyote is a symbol and considered the flesh of god, as it connects the members to a higher power. But they are not worshiping the peyote. The peyote itself is not god.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: endogenous]
    #22357441 - 10/10/15 01:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

This is from the website of the Oklevueha Native American Church. They are a combination of Lakota Sioux and Seminole. The title that the Church gave to this page is "Peyote - The Flesh of God". Thus, they are obviously in agreement with the Huichol and Tarahumara, that Peyote is the physical manifestation of God.

"The Huichole tribe now consists of about 25,000 people who live in the Sierra Madre Occidental mountain region of northwestern Mexico.  Most of their sacred practices revolve around the use of peyote, which they hold as the physical manifestation of God.
...The Tarahumara historically lived north of the Huichole in the Sierra Madre Occidental, but now many of the 50,000 members of the tribe have migrated to the hills and plains southwest of the city of Chihuahua....  While the outward ritual of their peyote use is different from the Huichole, they share the belief that peyote is the flesh of God."


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: What's your theory on this [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22357524 - 10/10/15 03:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
SFAIK the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation holds that the bread and wine become literally the actual body and blood of Christ in the sacrament of the Eucharist, not merely symbolically.  What would be the point otherwise?  It's supposed to be miraculous...

What I can say from experience is that the mushrooms connect me WITH some sort of source of being.  They are not themselves the source of this source, or some sort of deity.  They are conduits, IME, to the hyperdimensional reality that underpins our own.  They invoke the holy and thus render it accessible and attainable - but only with the synergistic relationship that occurs between the human and the mushroom when one consumes the other.  In this sense we sacrifice their body to our purposes.  It's not a far stretch - and never has been if history is any guide - to extend the "sacrifice" to other forms, particularly when the preferred sacrament isn't available. 

However, this source of being that one connects with is generally incapable of being reliably interpreted back here in our ordinary reality.  Hence people get all sorts of different "revelations" and "truths" from it, all stamped with an incontrovertible evidentiary quality (aka qualia) of immense relevance and accuracy - an emotional trap if you don't recognize the basic inapplicability of the one realm to the other.  Those woods are thick.

:2cents:






if that aint that truth idk what is

Many times I've had it speak through me, and say this or that would happen and it never did

and then it speaks and something does happen. For instance I was told earlier this summer there would cyans growing abundantly soon out in the fields.

here in florida, cyans don't normally grow until the winter. I mean you'll see them here or there but 98% of the time cubes absolutely flourish in the heat and thunderstorms here.

but this year I was told on one trip to go and look, and I will find cyans growing abundantly and it's been utterly incredible. I would say at one point it was 70/30 cyans to cubes and lately it has been almost nothing but cyans with a cube here and there.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* is there any evidence of toltecs using mushrooms? ethnobotany 822 0 11/20/04 08:13 PM
by ethnobotany
* Original Aztec and Mazatec mushroom rituals? deCypher 2,791 7 08/01/08 03:29 PM
by harryp2000
* Aztec / Honey / Chocolate Brian 1,387 8 07/16/07 10:38 AM
by Brian
* Aztec imagery during trips.
( 1 2 all )
HidingInPlainSight 11,352 24 09/06/03 01:59 AM
by Faaip_De_Oiad
* Shrooms vs. LSD..theorys, differences in hallucinations etc.
( 1 2 all )
orizon 26,876 32 10/08/18 12:45 PM
by heatlessbbq
* Can Someone Explain the Whole 2012 Theory?
( 1 2 all )
thelox 3,995 25 03/16/12 01:58 PM
by psilocybinjunkie
* Aztec Gold Salvia Tincture Dosage kroum 5,040 9 10/08/05 09:07 PM
by qhr0me
* mushrooms of the Aztecs? BBC 524 1 01/06/07 05:08 AM
by Nalim

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
4,729 topic views. 5 members, 81 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.061 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 14 queries.