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The Pendulum
    #22202685 -

What does everyone think about using a pendulum to access the subconscious? Does it really work or is it just a bunch of nonsense?


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22203264 -



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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22203408 -

Thanatos10 said:
What does everyone think about using a pendulum to access the subconscious? Does it really work or is it just a bunch of nonsense?


How about you give it a try and let us know?

http://www.geohanover.com/docs/pendulum2.htm


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22203591 -

Nice, I had a little bit of interest in bineural beats a while back. Thanks for the reminder. :nyan:


Mandibular symphysis!

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Sun King] * 1
    #22203621 -

The pendulum is mightier than the swordulum. :yesnod:


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Re: The Pendulum [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22203876 -

I just want to know about other people's experience with it. I've done it a few times and it has mixed if not contradictory results.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22203951 -

As expected. Ideomotor effect - same as for dowsing.


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Re: The Pendulum [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22203998 -

What do you mean?


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22204000 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
the swordulum.


I gotta get me one of those.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22204036 -

Here is my personal custom-made swordulum:



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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22204042 -

Thanatos10 said:
What do you mean?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_phenomenon


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Re: The Pendulum [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22204222 -

So does that mean it tell you how you REALLY feel about certain matters?


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22204842 -

Certain brain states are roughly measurable by modern equipment like EEG machines. Gross baselines of natural states, like daydreaming, analytic focus, trance, sleep, and in intentional focus or meditation have all been observed. The impressionability of consciousness in these natural or meditative states is quite reasonably described in ways which are phenomenally different.

I haven't looked too much into this outside of passing interest, but I believe there is an empirical basis that entrainment to gross states is empirically observed. Please correct me if I am wrong.

But as for the usual reductionism in general (Ah, its all the same isn't it?), I think its pretty clear that broadly speaking this discussion is completely misunderstanding what a study of consciousness would entail, even in conservative basis.

The nature of focus "itself" is going to be in whatever it is conscious of in an impression. Meditative traditions have long said it is possible to describe the quality and indeed the nature of the conscious impression. As old as the sutras, the consciousness has been described in its impressions, or "fluctuations" or "waves". To quote Patanjali, yoga-citta-vrtti-nirodha: Yoga is ceasing the fluctuations of the mind.

The phenomenal experience of a conscious experience will not be possible to be thrown up on some screen or table, but baseline observations of a parasympathetic nervous system, and in measurable brain states are possible. Hence just as these physical observations would indeed seem to correspond to gross natural states experienced every day, which are clearly experienced as quite different, it is reasonable to inquire upon the basis of the meditative consciousness, which are correspondingly traversing the phenomenal impressions, or the conscious experience itself.

Clearly phenomenological descriptions of meditation would not be reductive in a general sense, but found according to physical baselines, of what has been observable.

Perhaps it is important to acknowledge that a practice of yoga or meditation isn't traditionally about evoking impressions or making waves to observe, but the broad cross relavence of meditation to empirical studies of consciousness, nonetheless, will remain relavent and in a compelling phenomenological dialogue.

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Kurt]
    #22204927 -

I think they are a great tool to allow self-exploration when trying to make decisions. Not necessarily because you are given spooky insight from some spirit, but because of the aforementioned ideomotor effect. You ask the question out loud, and your subconscious gives a knee-jerk response to how you really feel.

In other words, it is an external tool that allows you to access your innermost self. The you who always is, not the ones that were or will be you constantly fret over.

The trick in magick is realizing it is all in fact in your head, and you are providing yourself with external stimuli to.. poke and prod yourself into an outcome you like.

Either way you have to do the work, but magick signals to your subconscious that this is something you desire on a deep level, and leaves an imprint that you will circle back towards until you get your result.

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: RedEyeOpen]
    #22204954 -

But, but - I wanna pick winning lottery numbers! :hissyfit:


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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22209563 -

Thanatos10 said:
What does everyone think about using a pendulum to access the subconscious? Does it really work or is it just a bunch of nonsense?


The Chevreul pendulum is useful for self-hypnosis. When the centrifugal force of the twirling pendulum 'feels' like you are not the author of the movement through muscular micro-movements, then you are beginning to get dissociation. At that point, you are beginning to prop open access to a subconscious level. When that occurs, the client can turn his/her attention to the brief suggestion one has prepared (say, on a folded index card) and the suggestion can more easily be accepted. There are other applications for the Chevreul pendulum (which you can access on YouTube if interested), like engaging the immediate unconscious (or subconscious) such as yielding yes-no answers, but I am not convinced of their usefulness. I certainly wouldn't use this with a client paying for a hypnotherapy session, but I might say it's OK to play around with it at home.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22209768 -

Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:I certainly wouldn't use this with a client paying for a hypnotherapy session, but I might say it's OK to play around with it at home.


What techniques would you use in a professional setting Markos? It sounds like you've seen good results from hypnotherapy in your time practising?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22213832 -

I always begin with the Dave Elman induction. There are many types, including kinetic (hands-on, touch techniques for the Very nervous or uptight). There are Rapid and Instantaneous Inductions, but these are often used for hypnosis as entertainment, not in clinical work. Hypnosis is like a drug, it can be used recreationally or clinically. It is also like Nitrous oxide in that you can do a painful (emotionally) procedure, but it doesn't hurt. Plus, you get euphoria and time-distortion. Yesterday, my client thought 10 minutes had elapsed when it was 40-45 minutes. When I had a tooth pulled, I thought 45 minutes had elapsed when it had been 4-5 minutes on gas. I sometimes draw out the Elman Induction by addressing every area of the body from eyes to head to toes, or use the metaphor of a pitcher of invisible relaxation being poured on top of the head and making suggestions to allow the jaw to unclench and the mouth to go slack, and lately I've been focusing on the throat muscles - asking for them to relax. Aside from sometimes mentioning the communication throat chakra (I tailor the induction), I note that often people clench their throats in an attempt to stop tearing up or talking. Opening and closing the eyes is called Fractionation and it is a deepening technique. Getting rid of numbers actually instils an amnesia. People who use numbers like accountants often resist 'losing the numbers' so I use letters, but I count upwards because sometimes people who can't lose the numbers have to stop at 1, but if they soon realize that they may as well get rid of numbers ASAP because counting upward goes to infinity, so the mind surrenders to the uselessness of clinging to the "critical mind." (See the Elman Induction vid. He uses almost every aspect of the induction [patter]. I take 7 minutes on the average).

Then I have created my own deepening techniques which, like the Elman, can be systematically shortened every time. So having someone descend an imaginary flight of steps to sub-basement 'A,' 'B,' (or today) 'C.' Each step takes one deeper and calmer...A has objects on shelves which represent events in your life, shelves in B have bottles, the bottles in which we 'bottle-up our feelings.' Some are  plain, some pretty like blown-glass perfume bottles, some dark, dusty and forbidding containing volatile or toxic feelings. In sub-basement C, your miner's lamp goes out and you are cast in darkness with the heavier-than-air smells of toxic feelings that have leaked from a bottle in B (smell-brain and emotions are tied). A 2nd session, the Elman is shortened, the steps on the deepening to the basements becomes an escalator, and with additional sessions (I often need only 2), people go deeply more quickly.

Identifying a strong feeling, there is a technique called the "Affect Bridge." You FLASH (not remember) on the 1st time you experienced this feeling. The feeling takes you there. BE THERE! How old are you? Are you alone or with someone? Are you inside or outside? Is it day or night? Are you sitting, standing, walking? WHAT IS GOING ON? This intended to regress someone to a traumatic moment. You don't want remembering even hypermnesia (detailed recall in all sense modalities). You want regression, revivification, reliving that moment. It is the Initial Sensitizing Event. Sometimes I land on a Subsequent Sensitizing Event, but then the symptoms don't vanish. If your stutter started when you were 3 years old, but you only relate a bad high school experience, and you're given permission to talk/no talk/cry (whatever is necessary), but you haven't hit the ISE but only the SSE, symptoms remain. We go back, go further back until we hit the ISE. THEN and only then will symptoms disappear if you give permission, forgive others, forgive yourself, or reassure your very young self that everything will be OK in the future.

There are many techniques. I go beyond mere hypnotic suggestion although I weave in suggestions and positive affirmations. A subject will only accept a suggestion that [s]he likes. It can't be neutral or negative. Yes, you can suggest a hottie is feeling warmer and warmer and has permission to undress, :devil: BUT that suggestion will only be followed by a stripper, a hooker, or an exhibitionist. The average woman will take herself out of trance, probably slap you, more than likely sue you, and go after your professional license. :lol: Even a stripper will feel violated and exact justice. My wife is always home when I see people. :yesnod:



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/11/15 11:35 AM)

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Re: The Pendulum [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22214187 -

:creepylurker:


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Re: The Pendulum [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22219005 -

Thank you Markos! You've definitely changed my opinion on hypnosis!!


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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