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pseudomonas bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems * 3
    #22162201 -



I was told nearly unanimously that these fruits were infected with vert

I also thought these looked like telltale vert

So I took some tissue samples and examined them microscopically.
what I found was all the brown spots had what looks like rod shaped bacteria everywhere, but no vert spores or vert mycelium structures.

I do see some bacteria that maybe could be vert spores since some vert spores look very similar to some bacillus.



these all look like bacteria to me, some of them MAYBE could be vert spores. however I see no vert mycelium nor the structures that produce vert spores.

anyone who has had microscopic experience with mushroom tissue and or Vert have anything to chime in?

any ways to take tissue samples to try to find vert better?

could these brown spots be 100% bacterial problems?

these mushrooms had bacterial blotch on some of the caps, I kept the casing layer much too wet and while they were primordia they got a bit fucked, I'm either thinking this let vert take hold or the bacteria itself is what is causing the distinct morphology on these cubes

EDIT 9/16/15


So it's fairly conclusive that all these brown spots and fucked up caps are due to bacteria, not vert.

edit 1/22/16


strikes again on peu, and some on some envySS fruits too


it appears it is pseudomonas




Very short small motile rods.


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Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/22/16 03:07 PM)

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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22162653 -

You have to isolate it from the mushroom first. Place one of the spotted pins in a 95%+ RH environment and assuming it's vertcillium you'll see greyish growth over the spotted areas and you can transfer bits of that greyish mycelium to agar for identification.


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: Kizzle]
    #22162683 -

I have one in a baggie to examine Monday.
Thoughts on the bacteria


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22162720 -

ive been having the same issues as of late.  :mad:




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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: SexySmurff]
    #22163376 -

Does it grow? :V


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: SexySmurff]
    #22163380 -

SexySmurff said:
ive been having the same issues as of late.  :mad:





Not sure I see anything wrong there >.>

How is the humidity% ???

Also, if you're daring take a whiff and see if you can tell a bacteria or yeast smell.

You will probably not die :V

Mushrooms once colonized are pretty resistant so my guess is they are dry, or in the unlikely case have an actual pathogen. It's not competitive in this case


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: micro]
    #22163399 -

they did die.  pinn stalled out turned into black soggy slime.  hot mess all the way around.

here's a pic of some spawn from same run



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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: SexySmurff]
    #22163415 -

Hmm. Black pinheads sound familiar >.>

... aborts?

Infections are generally more prolific than it seems from the pic.

Also, how is your humidity?

Also, is that a casing? The plastic on the sides will trap water and you want to make sure to spread the mycelium pretty evenly (not too evenly or you'll get hypogonasm :V

From the picture it seems like something is uneven -- not sure if it is the casing, humidity or something in it. Also, you don't have this problem but if you use peat make sure to pull al the sticks out.


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Edited by micro (08/30/15 04:13 AM)

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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: micro]
    #22163424 -

i'm kind of an old pro so i do appreciate your comments... 

this is what i can do when disease free




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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: SexySmurff]
    #22163430 -

neato! me too :wink:

I'm guessing that's between a QP and a LB dry. Clloser to a LB.

What was the rest of the casing like? :V

I was always more the "don't put your eggs in one basket" type

Sans appeal to authority pics are pics. I've had great flushes and also shitty ones.

I was more curious about the "problem" (if there is one)

I doubt bacteria would grow on live mushrooms if they are healthy.

I'm not teling you to do this but did you smell them?

Oh, AND HUMIDITY

(sorry, it's cool in the gang but I already asked twice and there's a reason)


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: micro]
    #22163725 -

Quote:
I doubt bacteria would grow on live mushrooms if they are healthy


It does that is how they get unhealthy...

Most bacteria makes no obvious smell. Some make horrible smells


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Edited by Trusted cuItivator (08/30/15 08:24 AM)

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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22164826 -

Mushrooms and healthy mycelium have a way of fighting off competitors, mainly by releasing enzymes and even altering the pH of the environment. If you have mushrooms that are not picked and growing and they are contaminated with bacteria, you are doing something wrong.

Also, I think most bacteria has *some* smell, but it depends what quantity to be noticeable. In my experience, any time I've gotten bacterial or yeast contamination it was obvious.

I'll back up again though. If you have mushrooms growing (cased, terrarium, whatever who cares) and there is contamination that is not a PATHOGEN (aka a competitor) something is wrong. My old roomie got cobweb on his casings all the time for example and the conditions seemed perfect... We found out it was sticks in the peat moss.

Pathogens are a different story though.

Oh, and picked or dead mushrooms can get bacteria easily. That's why it's so important to dry them quickly, Same with uncolonised substrate.


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: Kizzle]
    #22169612 -

Kizzle said:
You have to isolate it from the mushroom first. Place one of the spotted pins in a 95%+ RH environment and assuming it's vertcillium you'll see greyish growth over the spotted areas and you can transfer bits of that greyish mycelium to agar for identification.


so I took the shroom I had in a baggie since saturday and still didn't see any signs of vert mycelium growing and neither did I under magnification. I still saw bacteria though. small short rods on all the brown tissue.


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22170898 -

Can we see an updated pic of the fruits? By now if the infection is Lecanicillium fungicola, and given how early it set in, you should be seeing some stipe blowout. If you're not seeing any then I am really intrigued.

After looking at the necrotic patterning, it does look a little different than a typical vert infection. Mine typically are near the bottoms, while yours actually climb fairly high up the stipe.

The final oddity would be the caps, which do appear more pseudomonias rather than white mold, they have black necrotic patches, not grey, which is the usual color caps go with these infections on cubes. But to my knowledge pseudomonias does not attack the stipes at all, and I have never seen a pic of it doing so. But if there were infected with wet spot you will soon know one way or the other.

An updated pic of the fruits would be really cool tho. You do seem to get the odd stuff man. . .


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22170928 -

The only ones I saved are the ones in the plastic bag. The rest was dumped, vert, if that was the problem, seems like nothing to fuck around with in your space.

I believe that a saturated casing layer and a new mono that was more dialed for RH than FAE led to bacteria on the caps and stems.

I didn't see any signs of splitting stipes. It started with the caps, they would look like aborts but aborts usually don't get that big.


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: SexySmurff]
    #22171846 -

Bacteria is probably all is was then.

SexySmurff said:
ive been having the same issues as of late.  :mad:





This is no doubt bacteria. Verticillium wouldn't cause sliminess like that. Misting or allowing condensation to drip on an infected fruit body will spread large amount of the bacteria to nearby mushrooms so it's a good idea remove any pins with blotching it before misting or soaking the substrate.


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: Kizzle]
    #22172350 -

the result of spawning questionable spawn bags.


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Exalted is He from what they utter. Exalted is He from what they imagine. Exalted is He that exists without a place. Exalted is He that was there forever without a time or a beginning. Exalted is He that will be there forever without a time or an end. Exalted is He that will forever be praised. That is your God.

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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: SexySmurff]
    #22230524 -



So what's this stuff?


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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22235852 -

I can't make out any spore structures. The most common species of Verticillium found on mushrooms looks like this. Oval spores which develop at the tips of branches. The clusters of branches are connected at the base and found at various locations along a hypha.



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Edited by Kizzle (09/14/15 10:12 AM)

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Re: verticillium or bacteria, microscopic examination of brown spots on stems [Re: Kizzle]
    #22236235 -

Basically what I've seen in my Google image searches too. I'll keep an eye out


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