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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality
    #21719428 -

I have come to believe that the substances of matter of which we perceive with our senses and not actually different substances but instead are simply different states of motion.

What we call matter is really motion within the one real substance which is infinite and has no dimensions. Energy is the cause of matter, you can reduce matter down to energy because ultimately that is all matter is. Our senses and apparatus' of perception perceive motion, sound is the experience of waves of vibrating atoms and molecules, sight is the experience of waves of electrical energy, everything we experience and call the material world is really the sensing of movement.

We call things solid simply because that field of energy or movement is so fast and dense that our bodies (also made of fields of motion) cannot pass through them. It is like how a ceiling fan spins so fast it appears to be a solid disk, and if we were to touch we would experience it as such.. the spokes of a hub cap spin so fast the image of them is as a solid body.

The average person without contemplation of this fact is tricked by the senses into the belief that the world is full of so many differing substances. The so called objects produce so many different experiences and perceptions such as wet, hot, hard, soft, etcetera.. it creates the illusion of duality and many-ness when in reality all of these so called substances are really only one thing.. atoms can evolve and become other atoms, there is always the capacity for a "object" to evolve int another object because its existence is temporary and co-dependent upon its environment and its causes and conditions. They are empty of their own existence and thus have the capacity for change and flux.

So if matter is really motion and movement then the obvious question is what is it moving within? and what is the actual substance of reality. Materialism supposes a "material substratum" of which exists a "material" substance which is completely independent upon perception or consciousness. This is the consensual philosophical theory forms the axiom or way of perceiving the world for the masses at large. It is so subtle an assumption it goes completely unnoticed and most people are not even conscious that they are actually making a completely faith based assumption about reality. I believe that this way of seeing the world is seriously flawed and illogical and it is surely doomed to die out and be replaced with a better understanding of reality.. I wish to expound upon this idea in future posts. Thank you for reading and let me know your thoughts and/or insights into this concept.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: soldatheero]
    #21719456 -

I like your ideas, and it makes a lot of sense.

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: Jufin]
    #21719493 -

Thank you I appreciate that. More to come!:pipesmoke:


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: soldatheero]
    #21720245 -

Principles
You can't say A is made of B
or vice versa.
All mass is interaction.


--Richard Feynman


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: soldatheero]
    #21720682 -

Physical materialism assumes matter and energy to be interchangeable. Your ideas on solidity and form are logical and agreeable, but the insinuation that matter is a product of consciousness is not logical.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #21720944 -

Don't bristle so much Rahz. Its all insinuation, after all.

I would argumentatively add that material substance is metaphysical concept of physical reality that can be deconstructed.

The general statement of adjascent and isomorphic categories of physical and material reality, is consistant down to modern analysis, where matter is clearly a partial aspect of what is understood more holistically as matter in its states, (as DQ quoted Feynman) or what we also call the singular morphology of matter/energy, (physics/physis).

The extent to which matter/energy is coherent to represent as a material "thing", as a theoretical object or in a matter of inquiry (etc) is consistent with the moderners idea of physical reality. It is alot of impressions from the history of philosophy informing this idea of one " thing". But this thing arguably cannot be stated, because its states are just one thing, which physis as a whole is not.

Because this idea of physis has in spite of its original conception been drawn by the broad aegis and projects of categorically derivative materialism, namely the assumptions in the way things are represented singly as such states in analysis, it is often believed today that there is a physical reality or realism that is equivocally materiality. That seems a reasonable enough suggestion. But the philosopher will always point out materiality is (again) what is found in a particular mode of analysis of states, and physical reality is prior to this. On recognition of this (particularly in the originally conceived context, which has nothing to do with how it is claimed today) materialism has sometimes rightly been called a dogma of reductionism. Why do we seek reality in the tiniest colliding parts of things? This projection of analysis, (analuein means "unloosen") leads to a commonly mistaken notion that physical reality is a predicate, something possible to find in methodological pursuit of knowledge.

Quite arguably, though, this is not something that can be known. This is why other philosophers have "stated" Matter/energy "is" its morphological states, or in other words "something" so to speak, that is understood always in its form. Formality in regard to nature, such as our formality and methodology in seeking knowledge, does not assert idealism, or let alone the disposition that there are "two substances" matter and form, but that a monistic concept is subject either to conjecture or cannot possibly be known as such. We dwell in interpretations of questions, much more than answers.

This is possibly why (if there needs to be a "reason"), the asserted concepts break down according to their own provisions sometimes. Cartesian dualism, the even more convoluted polarized notion that there are "two" substances, is a good example of something to take apart, since it is based on what we can aptly recognize as a purely "formalistic" duality of matter and form. It is interesting that at we indeed dwell in the "reality" and realism of Cartesianism, which is so easily questioned if not taken apart

I would say in a certain formal philosophical way, matter/energy, or what we regard as physical phenomena, cannot "just" (in the sense of having a just rationale) be a material thing, for obvious reasons. This can be clearly seen, whether it is found questionable by assuming such a principle of philosophical formality, that what we know is analysis of morphological states, or even according to the rigid modern epistemic project, which asserts its so called "states of affairs" with some similar circumspection (for instance as in the quote, Feynman recognizes).

The question to me is whether one remains under the whole conceptual aegis which is partial to certain idealizations of analytic concepts being benignly but more and more often pitted against themselves (is matter and energy possible to represent in material representation?) or whether this epistemic project is more aptly deconstructed. I tend to lean toward the latter gesture.

What is physis? Suppose it is not what we represent it as, being, ousia, substance, but what the Greeks knew as the causa sui of growth or becoming. That is the insinuation of life.

PS. To the OP I hope this is useful. I did read your thesis and while I am not clear on some things, I am wondering are you impressed at all by Spinoza per chance? I have been putting off a reading of his ethics, wherein he asserts a particular notion of monistic substance. I am not sure I agree with a substance monism per se, but I have also been wanting an oppurtunity to make a reading of the text. Anyways cheers, and looking forward to any exchange.

Edited by Kurt (05/25/15 11:26 PM)

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: Kurt]
    #21721048 -

Very interesting Kurt, especially this:

Quote:
Formality in our regard to nature, such as our formality and methodology in seeking knowledge, does not assert idealism, or let alone the disposition that there are "two substances" matter and form, but that the monistic concept is subject either to conjecture or cannot possibly be known as such. We dwell in interpretations of questions, much more than answers.



We do seem to be in an age now where physics is coming up with more and more hypotheses that cannot in principle be tested, such as the multiverse, strings, etc.  As you point out, these are concepts that cannot be validated as such, and all we've really got left are questions and interpretations of questions.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21721143 -

with much applaud to you kurt, for a really cool and intelligent, awesome to read post, i didn't notice that rahz bristle at all :wink: hehe


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Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21721172 -

Rahz is one of the great and more entertaining debators around here imo. I was just taking a silly cheap shot, but I think he knows I am friendly. And thanks gys :-) I am going to follow along with this thread.

Edited by Kurt (05/25/15 11:28 PM)

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: Kurt]
    #21721978 -

I like your text. In my opinion matter is condensed energy so are we


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There is no real sin but lessons yet to be learned.

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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: Thaj]
    #21726451 -

I agree that it is all just energy. The mind makes it feel like it i s solid, takes up space, etc. The senses all give new characteristics to this energy, but yet they are all just variations on the same thing. That is touch. A photon touches the eye, we see. A particle of air touches the ear, we hear. It is all just energy transfer though. I see it more as flux in energy (or motion as op stated) because we can't sense no energy or no motion. This would be absolute zero in Kelvin terms and it doesn't happen. Also, when op talks about the space where matter or energy is it used to be called aether. Check out the famous bucket experiment for more on aether.


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Re: The Nature of Substance and the Illusion of Duality [Re: soldatheero]
    #21726734 -

What if this was all just a dream man?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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