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Re: personal worth [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21630139 -

what we call society is really just sociology. that's all it is. :shrug: we don't really have a society, yet. a society is something that people benefit off of. we don't benefit from "society" (sociology), we benefit from the aim's of our culture, alot of which (money) WE don't even employ for OURSELVES; we are just slaves to it, because it's what some old fucking power hungry idiot's had invented for us chattel.

fact. society is something in which people benefit one another, but we do not do that; we only aim to benefit ourselves, and if it helps someone else, well, it's an effective "guise", is all it is... it's the social contract. but that does not give us "a society". it gives us a social contract, and that's what it is, simply put.

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Re: personal worth [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21630288 -

DividedQuantum said:
How about just removing the moneymaking spectrum entirely from evaluations of the inherent worth and character of an individual?




Money is certainly a big one, but why stop there? What exactly does judging the inherent worth and character of an individual do for one's life?  "If only you were kinder, more intelligent, more talented...." 

I try my best to stand back and get outside that, see the big picture, how people got to be the way they are, appreciate and understand that.  I find by doing this I can judge myself less harshly for being the cosmic shmuck I am :tongue2:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: personal worth [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21630328 -

akira_akuma said:
what we call society is really just sociology. that's all it is. :shrug: we don't really have a society, yet. a society is something that people benefit off of. we don't benefit from "society" (sociology), we benefit from the aim's of our culture, alot of which (money) WE don't even employ for OURSELVES; we are just slaves to it, because it's what some old fucking power hungry idiot's had invented for us chattel.

fact. society is something in which people benefit one another, but we do not do that; we only aim to benefit ourselves, and if it helps someone else, well, it's an effective "guise", is all it is... it's the social contract. but that does not give us "a society". it gives us a social contract, and that's what it is, simply put.


If you can make a buck off of helping others it's not a bad thing.  I have a job and pay my taxes because i'm more comfortable with it then living under chaos.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: personal worth [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21630348 -

making a buck off of something isn't BAD. money isn't BAD. it's people not thinking past pushing up daisy's that's BAD. people are so insecure and it's because of their reliance on money, when if we all actually STRIVED for a REAL SOCIETY, we can rely on more than just our dispassionate correlation with money as power. power would come from actual work, doing what needs to be done, and instead of just studying for a spot in a rank in a position to only do so much that you're given to do, you can do WHAT NEEDS BE DONE, and either only, or hey, on your free time you can do whatever you want. it's the same thing, only it's not an innate selfish drive that propels us.

but people don't want better. the train stops at "i want more for ME". and thus it ever was. (Iceland-y :sad: )

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Re: personal worth [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21630785 -

.

Edited by saenchai (06/12/15 08:31 AM)

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Re: personal worth [Re: saenchai]
    #21630805 -

the problem comes from someone who's an idiot establishing the rule's for everyone else.

:shrug:

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Re: personal worth [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21631210 -

CosmicJoke said:
Money is certainly a big one, but why stop there? What exactly does judging the inherent worth and character of an individual do for one's life?  "If only you were kinder, more intelligent, more talented...." 

I try my best to stand back and get outside that, see the big picture, how people got to be the way they are, appreciate and understand that.  I find by doing this I can judge myself less harshly for being the cosmic shmuck I am :tongue2:



Ah, very wise point, indeed.  I can't disagree, but I am just disappointed that our world revolves around the acquisition, at any cost, of green tickets which we hoard and which we redeem for the food we are allowed to buy.  And that the number of green tickets one has are like a point total for their relevance and integrity.  If others don't find it fucked up, well, I have a hard time sympathizing with them, frankly.  :shrug:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: personal worth [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21632174 -

DividedQuantum said:
Yes, very lucid post.  What is ubiquitous, and really at issue, is the psychology of money as power, the superficiality associated with it and all of the desires which manifest as a result.  This is a uniquely American mindset, and without it I'm not sure our country could compete so well economically.


I don't think this value is specifically American. Before I left college in 1975, a couple of visiting Japanese students were brought to our dorm room. I lived with a Colombian in the foreign student wing with Israelis, Turks, Koreans, Nigerians and others. These guys came into our dorm and starting complimenting us on my stereo, and the crappy piece of carpet on the floor which I got to cover the bare tile. I remember one of the guys kneeling down to touch the carpet (really, a crappy remnant) and saying "Very good quality!," in his rather misguided attempt to compliment me. The entire brief interaction never included any interpersonal exchange. It was ALL about the modest material goods in our dorm room. I have never forgotten that brief visit because it suggested to me at the time that these two college age guys were representative of Japanese culture in general. Now, I realize that there are less materialistic Japanese, Zennists, Bohemians, hippies, but at the time, those guys fit the stereotypes that I had only heard of.

I haven't met that many Russian immigrants to Miami, but the Russians I have met are very hardbitten materialists. One beautiful blonde Russian expat biatch leeched onto a lawyer we know. She got a boob job, a BMW, a trip around Europe, and financing for law school before she dumped him. She came out of former Soviet Communism, where the state was 'God,' and material goods were scarce in that failed state. Around Miami, the word is that it's the Russian mob who operates all the White strip clubs. Big money, all materialism.

You can't deny the materialism that is to be found in China. The once-upon-a-time Taoist or Confucian regard for nature is literally ancient history. The epic air, earth, and water pollution in China are all by-products of their material productivity at any cost. The corruption in China, the blatant disregard for health and safety of the people (remember a bunch of Chinese men who were executed for sweetening baby formula with 'sweet' ethylene glycol [radiator coolant] because it was cheaper than sugar, and killing several babies)? Greed is ubiquitous.

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." - 1 Timothy 6:10


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/04/15 02:11 PM)

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Re: personal worth [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21633749 -

Those are very excellent and interesting points.  Perhaps instead of "uniquely" I should have said "very" American.  I think our mindset in this regard contributes to a real shallowness in our identity as a nation.  But as you point out correctly, indeed we are far from the only ultra-materialistic culture in the world.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: personal worth [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21633949 -

Worth....excellence of character or quality as commanding esteem.....

People dont always value excellence.....meh...it already is seperate from net worth.....

....so its literaly already defined......

Your welcome........

Someone whos kindness excels those around them is a worthy part of that collective....thats assuming the people of that group esteem kindness....if they dont....then he has no worth to them.......unless he possesses another characteristic that they esteem.


--------------------
Aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha...*desperately trys to breath*...aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...*starts coughing*.....chlllegm...haaaaawk....*swishes spit*

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Re: personal worth [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21635071 -

DividedQuantum said:
Those are very excellent and interesting points.  Perhaps instead of "uniquely" I should have said "very" American.  I think our mindset in this regard contributes to a real shallowness in our identity as a nation.  But as you point out correctly, indeed we are far from the only ultra-materialistic culture in the world.


I think Americans DO have their own uniquely American brands of materialism, in the plural. Sly Stallone has a gauche Late Baroque, Rococo mansion in Miami. There was the more tasteful (to my aesthetic) ted Turner ranch house, and of course one cannot leave out Oprah's sprawling estate. There are Jay Leno's cars, an on and on with entertainers and ball-playes commanding much of the absurdity of materialism. Namely, remaining intellectual and moral retards while driving around in million dollar cars, AS IF the quality of a rare automobile is somehow gonna rub off on the chick-beating, illiterate low-life with unusually quick motor skills.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: personal worth [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21635398 -

while quality things are quality, they certainly aren't worth what you bargain for. it's a mark up.

people want big and new. people aren't interested in small and old.

even though the smallest things are the most worthy things. (ie Gold. it looks so pretty!)

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Re: personal worth [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21635415 -

A lot of gold looks better then a little bit of gold :smirk:


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: personal worth [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21635651 -

no, it doesn't. it looks the same. :smirk: worth.

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