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Myyco.com Shop: Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

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Vinegar Questions * 1
    #21342449 -

So I am making my own vinegar.
The first one I started I used 1/4C sugar to 1qt of water and added some fruit in a mason jar.
I covered it with cheese cloth and let it sit for 10 weeks.
The natural yeast transforms the sugar to alcohol and natural bacteria transforms the alcohol to vinegar.
My question is, now that I have a mother that i can transfer, do I need to add the 1/4C sugar.
Since I am skipping the alcohol stage I wasn't sure if the sugar is needed by the bacteria.
Also, is all the sugar consumed before the bacteria takes hold?
If I use more sugar in the beginning will I get a higher alcohol point and how does that effect the final product?
After I get the flavor I want does it do any good to bottle age? How long?
Does anybody feel the need to PC there vinegars or do you just keep in the fridge? If so, how long do you PC?
Does anyone distill their vinegars? If so, whats your process?

I did a raspberry gastric from my first batch the other night with seared foie and cornshoot short cakes. I was very pleased.

Thanks for any info...



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Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride. Take all the money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over , not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

  ~Bill Hicks~


Looking to build up a print library

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21347527 -

You are better off adding the mother to something with alcohol IMO. I've had some failures when addding to fruit juice that hasn't been yeast fermented first. The acetic acid producing bacteria use ethanol as their energy source. Once made i keep my vinegar at room tempeature in a sealed bottle. I like dark wine or beer bottles with screw on lid and smaller bottles like the ones worstishire comes in.

I mostly make vinegar from leftover beer and wine, but have fermented some fruits and either added a mother or left them open after they have fermented to fruit flies. If I'm using fruit I remove the pits if the contain any and chop and smash and let them ferment in a narrow mouthed mason jar with a paper towel held on by a rubber band.

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: falcon]
    #21350947 -

Sounds good. Thanks man. I just did a bunch of Asian Pear vinegars that i started with white wine mothers and apple cider mother that seem to be going great.
Do you know if there is a way to keep a mother viable. Can I keep it in the fridge? Put it on agar?


--------------------
Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride. Take all the money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over , not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

  ~Bill Hicks~


Looking to build up a print library

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21351012 -

Isn't this method quite prone to nasty contaminants such as botulism?

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: koraks]
    #21351043 -

The book "wild fermentation" is where I got the recipe for starting fruit vinegar from scratch.
I found a couple of wine vinegar recipes online using braggs as a starter.
I kind of combined both methods by adding the starter I made to asian pears mixed with water. They formed there on mother on the top and smell good and vinegary.

Koraks do you have anymore info on getting botulism, why it happens, how to avoid it.


--------------------
Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride. Take all the money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over , not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

  ~Bill Hicks~


Looking to build up a print library

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21351892 -

I'm by far no expert, that's why I as asking. Not primarily concerned about botulism either, but there's a host of bugs out there that we can only take so much of before the body can't deal with them without squirting out shit from all ends :wink: I understand that botulism doesn't like acidic environments, so provided your fermentation is quick enough so that the pH drops fast, it shouldn't be able to develop to a sufficient degree to be poisonous. The reason why I mentioned botulism is because it's almost everywhere and therefore if it gets a chance, it quite certainly will present a problem. Too slow or incomplete fermentation sounds like the main risk factor to me. You want your good bugs to outcompete the bad ones, basically. So starting a vinegar from scratch without using a mother sounds like a risk, since it takes a while before the acetic acid is formed by the acetobacter species and by the time the mixture gets acidic enough, you may already be pickling botulism :wink:

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21363962 -

Pretty sure there is, I've seen them for sale at brewery stores in sealed jars, but I'm not sure how they get to that point, where they're confident in what the culture is that they are selling you.

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21371620 -

Quote:
MattyBear said:  botulism, why it happens, how to avoid it.


One thing you can do is aerate your juice once you've inoculated it, Clostridium botulinum is an obligate anaerobe, oxygen is poisonous to it. Aerating can be as simple as shaking the container after leaving it open for a while. This is also beneficial to the bacteria that make vinegar, they are obligate aerobes. It would also be better if you did an alcohol fermentation before you added your mother to your juice.

If you have vinegar and don't pasteurize it, you can add it to alcoholic beverages, I just added a 12 ounce bottle of beer to about 4 ounces of year old homemade unpasteurized vinegar, took about a week to turn it to vinegar, shaking once a day.

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: falcon]
    #21373431 -

falcon thanks for the info man. I was wondering if my juice goes to vinegar if that's a sure sign that there is no botulism? or can Botulism still exist well after it has turned to vinegar?

Also, whats your favorite vinegar to make?
Also, once I have vinegar and I want to age it, should I PC it first? if so, how long would you suggest?
Thanks again


--------------------
Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride. Take all the money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over , not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

  ~Bill Hicks~


Looking to build up a print library

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21373455 -

i have made cider vinegar for washing hair.

its really simple!!
get your apple cider fill a barrel with a hole or tap in it.
bung the hole with straw wrapped in cloth and then fill up a third way with beech shavings ,as a bung so the liqour goes throught the shavings and drips into a bucket below slowly.
(the wood shaving should be soaked in the vinegar your trying to make first)

the air and soaked shavings will provide the bacillus bacteria to turn to vinegar i assure u that and the dripping and the air contact will speed thing up super fast! for even more speed and to super charge the system make a wooden perforated plate to sit on the shavings without compressing them and drip the cider through on to the shavings infecting with basillus then collects in the bottom and slowly drips out into bucket below giving  essential air to the acetobacter speeding thing up conciderably!!
leave a few days at most instead of weeks.
a large amount can be done fast!!
after store how you want.

you can do the same with brewing wort or white wine for white and malt vinegar for your chips
or grape must from brewing wine to make balsamic!!

dont worry about botulism in my method as the air wont allow it to take over!! and the contact with air speeds up the process of becoming vinegar also the alcohol is pretty inhospitable for most things.
even at low percentages thats why people in england used to drink beer instead of water and the term liquid bread came from, this stopped the spread of thyphus and allsorts!!


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Edited by mustangbob3 (03/07/15 07:26 AM)

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: MattyBear]
    #21378275 -

I don't know the answers to any of those questions except i like pear and plum vinegar the best of those i've made. I don't pc to age and have never had a problem, but have bought some wine vinegar that was probably un pasteurized or at least had some unfermented portion that supported acetic acid producing bacteria as it formed a mother after opening.


Mustangbob3, did you start with hard cider? I'm going to give this a try. :cheers:

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: falcon]
    #21381279 -

yes you can use what cider or alcohol you want i guess, and prob any fruit based alcohol you may have brewed yourself.:smile:

i have thought about trying raspberry vinegar as heard it can be used as a cordial to make a refreshing summer drink but never tried yet :smile:


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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21390449 -

Do you reuse your shavings and if so how do you keep them from time to time, in vinegar?

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Re: Vinegar Questions [Re: falcon] * 1
    #21396010 -

no i dont reuse shavings they are cheap!
any hard wood shavings will work but stay away from pines and ones with lots of resin.
just save a bottle of vinegar as a mother to start the next batch.


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General Interest > Culinary Arts, Gardening and Brewing
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