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Offlinemonoamine
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misuse of the word "terrorism"
    #2135477 - 11/25/03 06:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm sure this has come up before,but I just saw something on T.V. about the U.S.S. Cole attack and the attacks on Coalition forces and they kept referring to them as terrorist attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong,but attacks on military targets are not terrorist attacks.

What exactly is the definition of "terrorism"?. Most dictionaries gave a farely vague defininition along the lines of "violence and threats of violence by an organized group to achieve political and social gains".


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2135501 - 11/25/03 06:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I also find it quite amusing when they make the attacks out to be horrible acts of violence.....when they are attacking an occupying army. Not that I condone it....but still.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2135557 - 11/25/03 07:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'd say they're still terrorist attcks since they weren't (?) carried out by a country but rather a group of shitheads. It was a legitimate target though as I see it since it was against a military target.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2135705 - 11/25/03 08:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

it would be a stretch to say it is a "terrorist" attack when one group of armed men attack another group of armed men. if you want to call it that, can you give us your definition of terrorism? and don't say it's a terrorist act when it's carried out by "a group of shitheads". give us a comprehensive definition of "terrorism".



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2135744 - 11/25/03 08:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Comprehensivly.... it's a terrorist act if it's carried out by a group of shitheads.

:wink:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2135757 - 11/25/03 08:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How about the Chechnyan (sp?) thing in the Russian theatre, was that a terrorist attack?


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2135798 - 11/25/03 08:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In a way I can see these are terrorists attacks because they most likely just wanted to strike fear (like they were going to take out the entire U.S. fleet and coalition forces or something),but if you hold to that definition,then our recent bombing of suspected "terrorist" (they're terrorits now because they're starting to strike civilians) "hangouts" to strike fear are terrorist attacks then.

This isn't some leftist rant. I really want to know what objectively a "terrorist" is because I think it's overused.

For example,the leftist paramilitaries in Columbia are labled terrorists when they attack Plan Columbia troops over coca. They even have nifty uniforms too.



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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (11/25/03 08:51 PM)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2136342 - 11/26/03 12:21 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong,but attacks on military targets are not terrorist attacks.




I concur.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2136467 - 11/26/03 01:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The attack on the USS Cole was not in itself a terrorist attack (although it was carried out by terrorists) it was an act of war.

Similarly, attacks on coalition forces in Iraq are not terrorist attacks (although some of them may be perpetrated by terrorists), they are guerilla attacks.

The people carrying out these specific attacks may be terrorists (through their past actions), but the actions themselves cannot properly be defined as terrorist attacks.

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2136547 - 11/26/03 01:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Comprehensivly.... it's a terrorist act if it's carried out by a group of shitheads.

I think we can safely class everything Bush and the neocon crazies have done as terrorism then.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: Xlea321]
    #2136741 - 11/26/03 04:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Terrorism is often defined as attacks on innocent civilians. What about the carpet bombing of civilians in WWII, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. Was that terrorism?
Nazis in WWII also called the guerilla resistance in occupied teritories bandits and terrorists.
If we do it - it's war, if they're doing it - it's terrorism.



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2136942 - 11/26/03 08:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Whatever "terrorism" meant in the past, its present meaning is any opposition to the Bush junta. For now its still qualified with "involves the use of violence". But as of November 4, 2004, it will mean any opposition to the junta, period.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: zeronio]
    #2138011 - 11/26/03 03:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Nazis in WWII also called the guerilla resistance in occupied teritories bandits and terrorists.

Hitler also insisted he invaded Czechoslovakia to protect "human rights". Sounds awfully familiar doesn't it.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: Xlea321]
    #2139842 - 11/27/03 10:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Hitler also insisted he invaded Czechoslovakia to protect "human rights". Sounds awfully familiar doesn't it.




There is some truth in that but it was by no means the main reason. Hitler demanded the Sudentenland, three provinces on the German border that had large German populations, as they had been part of Germany before WW1.
Hitler did also claim, falsely might I add, the Czech government was mistreating Germans however the part this claim played in negotiations is minimal.
The Sudentenland was ceded to Germany (the Munich Agreement) and was occupied by the German army. Without the fortifications in the western provinces the rest of Czechoslovakia and the semi-independant Slovakia, threatened with invasion, declared their desire to become part of Germany.
Taking that into account your comparison is quite baseless....

As for terrorism I think everyone has slightly different views on what constitutes a terrorist attack. I agree the attacks on coalition forces in Iraq are not terrorist attacks, yet the attacks on international agencies and facilities such as water etc are....



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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2139972 - 11/27/03 11:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Taking that into account your comparison is quite baseless....

No, the comparison was in the reasons given to excuse a war of aggression.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: Xlea321]
    #2140110 - 11/27/03 12:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Describing the incorporation of Czechoslovakia into the German state as a war of aggression is a long shot. Even calling it an invasion is pushing it.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: monoamine]
    #2142324 - 11/28/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
I'm sure this has come up before,but I just saw something on T.V. about the U.S.S. Cole attack and the attacks on Coalition forces and they kept referring to them as terrorist attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong,but attacks on military targets are not terrorist attacks.

What exactly is the definition of "terrorism"?. Most dictionaries gave a farely vague defininition along the lines of "violence and threats of violence by an organized group to achieve political and social gains".




ter?ror?ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism

When we go to war with a nation, we are doing it "legally" (that is, according to the geneva convention). When Ahab the Arab rows a boat out and blows up a target, be it military or no, it's illegal. Thus, terrorism.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2142363 - 11/28/03 04:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When we go to war with a nation, we are doing it "legally" (that is, according to the geneva convention

Care to post the bit from the geneva convention that says it's legal to launch unprovoked wars of aggression like the one against Iraq?


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: Xlea321]
    #2143958 - 11/29/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It isn't ILLEGAL, in that we didn't violate the Geneva Convention. Care to post about Germany? I could post how Saddam signed onto the Geneva convention, then attacked non-aggressor civilian centers, and used WMD's after he signed it. However, you don't care if any other nation violates the convention, because your mind will create a way that that is fine and dandy. If we go into a nation and liberate it from an oppressive dictator, thats when you get upset.

Also alex old boy, thats not what the geneva convention discusses, the legality of bringing a war or starting a war. I'll do a quick run down of what the geneva convention DOES cover, so that you can avoid the foul taste of your foot in future exchanges.
Convention (I) for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Convention (II) for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts (Protocol II), 8 June 1977.



Absolutely nothing about starting an "illegal" war. Maybe you have your documents confused, old chap.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: misuse of the word "terrorism" [Re: Xlea321]
    #2146459 - 11/30/03 01:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Comprehensivly.... it's a terrorist act if it's carried out by a group of shitheads.

I think we can safely class everything Bush and the neocon crazies have done as terrorism then.




eve?ry?thing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vr-thng)
pron.

All things or all of a group of things.


Every singular action that Bush has undertaken is terrorism? Define how sleeping in a bed is terrorism. I realize thats stupid, but you said that "everything" he did was considered terrorism. So I'm picking out an action that he does, more frequently than most others I'm sure, and asking your vast liberal mind to explain how it is terrorism. Or revise your statement, guvnah!


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