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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6134986 - 10/05/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The polls certainly say otherwise.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Redstorm]
    #6135003 - 10/05/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hopefully those polls will hold on nov 7...but you still cant argue that KG doesnt want ppl to remain under a delusion that would be broken if they were ever to travel...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (10/05/06 02:57 PM)

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OfflineTurn
Hey Its Free!

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 367
Loc: The fabled catbird seat
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Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6135793 - 10/05/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This thread got way off topic, just what those Neocons want, distracted by other shit and conspiracy theories

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OfflineEconomist
in training
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Registered: 10/11/05
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Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Trepiodos]
    #6138258 - 10/05/06 11:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Trepiodos, I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. When someone disagrees with you, you resort to calling their argument hate, or you dismiss then as a sycophant. Not only is that not constructive, but it seems identical to the tools you complain about the Neocons using (anyone who disagrees with them is hateful of liberty, or dismissed as a terrorist).

I don't understand why you can't believe that there might be some people out there who honestly support the Neocons because they feel its the right course of action.

I still don't understand the claim you're trying to make about the CPI. The CPI measures food and fuel along with everything else, and the core CPI is used to try and account for seasonal adjustments (i.e. heating oil will always be more expensive in the winter, as will produce that has to be shipped from South America). You're trying to make some point about the "real world" but you're missing the forest for the trees. The reality is that the CPI takes food and fuel into account, and no one is asking you to look at the core CPI in a vacuum.

Your complaints about the Federal Deficit seem confused. You started in with something about consumer debt (which isn't a part of the Federal Deficit). When I referred to "real terms" I was talking about economic arguments. No one takes the Federal Deficit for its face value, the more useful measurement is as a % of GDP, this is reflected in everything from Federal Reserve speeches to run-of-the-mill news reports. Even a 5-second search on Wikipedia reveals that the % of GDP figure is farm more important than the aggregate number ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_Policy_in_the_United_States ).

You're also completely ignoring arguments that a high level of foreign-serviced debt might be a good thing (it helps keep the dollar strong, for example). I'm not saying these arguments are correct, but you seem to dismiss them out of hand.

Then there's the issue of GDP. I really don't know where you're going with this. Yes, more than wages are calculated in GDP, but I didn't want to take the time to type everything out. Nonetheless, you are claiming that somehow the Federal Government sets prices of consumer goods for the purposes of calculating GDP. This is 100% false, completely baseless and without merrit.

Prices are determined by inferential statistics run on the market, and (as I stated above) the American Economics Association has reviewed and agrees with the methodology.

I mistyped before, but what I was trying to say was that the system is kept in check because the GDP is ballparked by calculating the GNI (Gross National Income) and then measuring the statistical discrepancies.

I am asking you to prove the claim that you made, specifically that the government invents prices for products and thus inflates the GDP. I am not asking you to prove a negative, I am asking you to provide evidence of the positive assertion you made, that the GDP is artificially inflated by the government.

Personally, I think this is probably a waste of time. For all the rhetoric of "freeing your mind" you seem to have reached foregone conclusions without actually studying the facts. In your rush to prove why the US government would want to keep citizens from leaving (something that also has not been proven, I might add) you have mischaracterized, flung insults, and ignored genuine opportunities for debate infavor of labels like "hateful nationlism".

If this country is going to be improved, its going to be done by thoughtful research, open and honest debate, and constructive argument. The Bush administration has put us in a very bad place. The Free Trade Agreements that seemed to be a "done deal" just three years ago are now completely out of reach. The opportunity to genuinely shrink government and return money to the American taxpayers has been foregone in favor of massive increases in military spending. The issue of Social Security reform has still not been solved, and we have reversed the progress we made with China, once a repeated recipient of "Most Favored Nation Trading Status" to the throwing up of unnecessary tariffs which only hurt the American poor, because they are the ones most affected by a rise in the price of textiles.

These are serious issues, and they're never going to be solved if time and effort is wasted on debate about whether or not the US government is actively engaging in a program to prevent emmigration, for which there is no evidence and no base.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a sycophant.

Edited by Economist (10/05/06 11:39 PM)

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