|
SilentG
Stranger thanfiction
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 420
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Turn]
#6126968 - 10/02/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
"No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any claim or cause of action whatsoever, including any action pending on or filed after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, relating to the prosecution, trial, or judgment of a military commission under this chapter, including challenges to the lawfulness of procedures of military commissions under this chapter."
How is it possible for a piece of legislation to alter or limit the authority of the Supreme court? I thought that was outlined in the Constitution and would take an amendment to be altered.
Not like it really matters if you pack the court full of crazy neo-cons.
-------------------- Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that. -Moth
|
Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: SilentG]
#6127220 - 10/03/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
no..its not possible to draft a law which is beyond the reach of the SCOTUS..because the SCOTUS (or any federal court..for that matter) could simply rule that part of the law unconstitutional if it so chooses...however..the SCOTUS could also choose to agree with the statute and refuse to hear any cases on those grounds..like it did in the korematsu case..above...
-------------------- "anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
|
zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Turn]
#6127233 - 10/03/06 01:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
But I guess its better to be inside the US then on the other side of the bombs
Yes, we will all be perfectly safe inside our detention camps.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (10/03/06 02:36 AM)
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: zorbman]
#6127286 - 10/03/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
safe as a grave.
so let's do ourselves a favor and be alive.
"we need no imposed safety, we are ultimately responsible for my own."
--------------------
|
Xygyg
Somulate
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: zorbman]
#6133566 - 10/04/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, Halliburton is in the process of building camps all over the U.S. That combined with the wall that is going up between us and Mexico, and talk of another type of wall between us and Canada, is really turning into a nightmare.
-------------------- "There are no facts, only interpretations." from Nietzsche's Nachlass
|
Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Xygyg]
#6133675 - 10/04/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
^i got laughed off the board before when i suggested that the walls were meant to keep ppl in...
-------------------- "anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
|
Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Annapurna1]
#6133691 - 10/04/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Annapurna1 said: ^i got laughed off the board before when i suggested that the walls were meant to keep ppl in...
As well you should have been.
Anyone who's ever been to one of the US/Mexico border crossings can tell you that the system is VERY clearly and obviously designed to keep people out. Travelling into Mexico takes no time, and in many instances you may not even talk to anyone. Trying to get back into the US, however, there are frequent delays, you always risk a search, and you always have to talk with someone.
|
Xygyg
Somulate
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Economist]
#6133753 - 10/04/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Well how hard would it be to prevent exit as well as entry. I know that it sounds really far-fetched, but a lot of the things going on in the U.S. now were once viewed the same way.
-------------------- "There are no facts, only interpretations." from Nietzsche's Nachlass
|
Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Xygyg]
#6133768 - 10/04/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Are you seriously suggesting that the US government has plans in place to prevent its citizens from leaving the country?
How does that make sense at all?
When, in the history of the US has the net migration rate even been negative? What could possibly be happening that would cause a significant, desirable, quantity of the US population to up and leave?
Not leave in the ordinary fashion either, mind you, but leave via some sort of desperate border-dash...
There's just no scenario where this would be even remotely logical.
|
Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 10 months, 14 days
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: AlteredAgain]
#6133842 - 10/04/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Now... I agree that this bill is scary, but I'm not so clear on how the wording of the bill allows for HUAC-esque discretion in considering non-allegiance to be terrorism.
Could someone please excise a quote with only the relevant wording involved, and maybe explain it?
My legalese is fairly poor. Each time I've read it, I've missed that part.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
|
Xygyg
Somulate
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Economist]
#6133895 - 10/04/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I guess that I'm just worried about what happens when our government starts to imprison those who speak out against it. If there ever comes a time when those government contracted interment camps are used to confine people who dissent, then I'm sure you will start to see a marked increase in people trying to flee the country. I'm not trying to argue or sound irrational, but it is just a concern I have--especially now that the right of habeus corpus has been eradicated.
-------------------- "There are no facts, only interpretations." from Nietzsche's Nachlass
Edited by Xygyg (10/04/06 08:42 PM)
|
Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Economist]
#6134049 - 10/04/06 09:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Economist said: Are you seriously suggesting that the US government has plans in place to prevent its citizens from leaving the country?
and why wouldnt they be??...other govts in the past that embraced policies similar to our own torture bill have also tried to keep their ppl in...and the US is now squarely in that camp...
-------------------- "anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
|
Trepiodos
Disgustipated
Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Annapurna1]
#6134123 - 10/04/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Many people on this board seem to be hopelessly inured with the unfounded assumption that "it can't happen here." It is a matter of unquestioned faith that the U.S. is the greatest (whatever that means), freest country in the history of the planet and immune to the predations of those who lust for power. This national religiosity requires willful ignorance as to human nature and the history of the world as it relates to our present circumstances in the U.S. Slapping mental blinders on oneself is common to all dogmatic belief systems, be they nationalistic, theistic or economic in nature. I readily admit that I have succumbed to this myself but I am getting better at warding it off
-------------------- And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Trepiodos]
#6134182 - 10/04/06 09:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
time to move on, power is out, ethics is in.
--------------------
|
Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Annapurna1]
#6134194 - 10/04/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Annapurna1 said: and why wouldnt they be??...other govts in the past that embraced policies similar to our own torture bill have also tried to keep their ppl in...and the US is now squarely in that camp...
Oh get off it.
What could possibly be gained by keeping dissenters in?
If anything, were we to buy the argument (which is itself quite the stretch) that the current administration will take whatever steps are necessary to "stay in power" then wouldn't it benefit them if all the dissenters left, leaving only supporters?
This isn't blind belief that "it can't happen here", this is simply about asking who would benefit and why.
Who could possibly benefit from preventing the American people from moving elsewhere? What would anyone gain by doing that?
|
Trepiodos
Disgustipated
Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Economist]
#6134213 - 10/04/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
You might as well ask, "what did it gain the former Soviet Union and Soviet satellites by instituting similar policies?"
-------------------- And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
|
Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Trepiodos]
#6134239 - 10/04/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Trepiodos said: You might as well ask, "what did it gain the former Soviet Union and Soviet satellites by instituting similar policies?"
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't compare at all.
The Soviets and their satellites were attempting to cover up the active lies they told about their domestic standards, as well as the standards enjoyed elsewhere in the world.
The US has not engaged in an active program of lying about our living standards to the rest of the world, nor has our government made false claims about the living standards within the homelands of our enemies.
So, I ask again, how would anyone benefit from keeping US citizens from leaving the US?
|
Trepiodos
Disgustipated
Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Economist]
#6134366 - 10/04/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Economist said: I'm sorry, but that just doesn't compare at all.
Why not, because you say so?
Quote:
The Soviets and their satellites were attempting to cover up the active lies they told about their domestic standards, as well as the standards enjoyed elsewhere in the world.
Is that your claim as to why they instituted such policies? You are going to have to back up that claim as I am not convinced.
Quote:
The US has not engaged in an active program of lying about our living standards to the rest of the world, nor has our government made false claims about the living standards within the homelands of our enemies.
You are wrong. I suggest you check your facts about how economic statistics are compiled, what is and is not included in such things as national debt figures, CPI, and GDP and how these figures are massaged with omissions, guesses and economic sleight of hand. If you are honest WITH YOURSELF, you should come to the conclusion that you are being lied to.
Quote:
So, I ask again, how would anyone benefit from keeping US citizens from leaving the US?
Ask yourself, and BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, how would anyone have benefited in other countries that pursued similar policies? Remember, not all benefits can be measured in monetary units. Power, prestige and control are ends that people pursue. They are things that some value, but which are difficult to quantify in purely numeric terms of money or estimated wealth. Value is subjective.
-------------------- And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
|
Xygyg
Somulate
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Economist]
#6134390 - 10/04/06 10:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Even if I'm way off the mark about the purpose of the wall, what's with the concentration camps being built (and the ones already here)? Who exactly are they intended for? If we are attacked again (God forbid!), then you can almost guarantee that martial law would come into play, and dissent would be dealt with in a much harsher manner.
-------------------- "There are no facts, only interpretations." from Nietzsche's Nachlass
Edited by Xygyg (10/04/06 10:06 PM)
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
|
Re: Torture Bill States Non-Allegiance To Bush Is Terrorism [Re: Trepiodos]
#6134404 - 10/04/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
You still haven't told us how the administration would benefit by keeping people in.
|
|