The Ecstatic said:

Production (and by association jobs) is correlated with demand. If 20,000,000 illegals are suddenly gone, it's shortsighted to say we'd gain 20,000,000 jobs, because that's 20M less consumers, 20M less people buying food and other goods, so there would most likely be a smaller labor market.

I do think we need a more stringent immigration system, but there's no feasible way to kick out 20M people, let alone deciding the consequences of doing so are worth it. We need a path to citizenship for anyone living here now, otherwise we might as well do nothing.

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qman said:

The fact of the matter is, they are a massive burden on the taxpayer, they cost 8 times more in time revenue than they contribute, that unacceptable.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

The fact of the matter is, they are a massive burden on the taxpayer, they cost 8 times more in time revenue than they contribute, that unacceptable.

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Can you share your source for that data?

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Quote:

The extra immigrants are mostly poor, drive up taxpayers’ costs for welfare spending and are crowding into classrooms and spiking state and local education budgets.

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zappaisgod said:

I don't think you know what the word fair means given that the top 1% pay around 40% of all taxes.

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qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Can you share your source for that data?

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http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-california-taxpayers

"The annual expenditure of state and local tax dollars for that population is $25.3 billion."

"$3.5 billion in tax collections"

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I read the article, and there's some questionable numbers there.  First of all, they include LEGAL immigrants in their costs.

Quote:

Nearly half of those expenditures ($12.3 billion) result from the costs of K-12 education for the children of illegal aliens — both those illegally in the country and those born in the United States

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FactCheck.org said the same thing when FAIR was used as a source for a similar (cost of all US illegal immigrants) claim:

Quote:

Claim #1: "$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year."

This item is completely false. The link given to "verify" the claim actually leads to an issue brief by the conservative Federation for American Immigration Reform. But the FAIR brief says nothing of the sort. It says: "Each year, state governments spend an estimated $11 billion to $22 billion to provide welfare to immigrants." That’s welfare payments in 2001 to all immigrants – both legal and illegal – plus households including U.S. citizens if they are headed by a person who was born outside the United States.

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So that's not accurate. 

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Can you share your source for that data?

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http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-california-taxpayers

"The annual expenditure of state and local tax dollars for that population is $25.3 billion."

"$3.5 billion in tax collections"

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I read the article, and there's some questionable numbers there.  First of all, they include LEGAL immigrants in their costs.

Quote:

Nearly half of those expenditures ($12.3 billion) result from the costs of K-12 education for the children of illegal aliens — both those illegally in the country and those born in the United States

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FactCheck.org said the same thing when FAIR was used as a source for a similar (cost of all US illegal immigrants) claim:

Quote:

Claim #1: "$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year."

This item is completely false. The link given to "verify" the claim actually leads to an issue brief by the conservative Federation for American Immigration Reform. But the FAIR brief says nothing of the sort. It says: "Each year, state governments spend an estimated $11 billion to $22 billion to provide welfare to immigrants." That’s welfare payments in 2001 to all immigrants – both legal and illegal – plus households including U.S. citizens if they are headed by a person who was born outside the United States.

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So that's not accurate. 

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"plus households including U.S. citizens if they are headed by a person who was born outside the United States."

So when illegals come over and have children in the US, you think that makes a difference?  They still cost MONEY!!   

Guess what?  If the illegal didn't come over in the first place, no one would have to pay for their children that were born here, the statistics are correct.

zappaisgod said:

I don't think you know what the word fair means given that the top 1% pay around 40% of all taxes, the top 5% around 60% and the top 10% around 70% of income taxes.  The bottom 50% pay pretty much nothing.

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The top income tax rate went back up to 39.6 percent over a year ago — for singles making more than $400,000 a year or couples making more than $450,000. The increase was part of the “fiscal cliff” package that Congress passed on New Year’s Day of 2013.

The top rate for dividends also went up to 20 percent (not 39.6 percent) in 2013 as part of the same fiscal cliff package, and also only for those with more than $400,000 individual or $450,000 joint taxable income.


http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/false-tax-claims/

If by 80% tax rate you mean 39.6 yes it's an 80% tax rate.

sweeper54 said:

zappaisgod said:

I don't think you know what the word fair means given that the top 1% pay around 40% of all taxes, the top 5% around 60% and the top 10% around 70% of income taxes.  The bottom 50% pay pretty much nothing.

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The top income tax rate went back up to 39.6 percent over a year ago — for singles making more than $400,000 a year or couples making more than $450,000. The increase was part of the “fiscal cliff” package that Congress passed on New Year’s Day of 2013.

The top rate for dividends also went up to 20 percent (not 39.6 percent) in 2013 as part of the same fiscal cliff package, and also only for those with more than $400,000 individual or $450,000 joint taxable income.


http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/false-tax-claims/

If by 80% tax rate you mean 39.6 yes it's an 80% tax rate.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

zappaisgod said:

I don't think you know what the word fair means given that the top 1% pay around 40% of all taxes.

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Given that the top 1% own about 40% of the wealth, that seems perfectly fair.

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sweeper54 said:

If by 80% tax rate you mean 39.6 yes it's an 80% tax rate.

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zappaisgod said:

I don't think you know what the word fair means given that the top 1% pay around 40% of all taxes, the top 5% around 60% and the top 10% around 70% of income taxes.  The bottom 50% pay pretty much nothing.

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