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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21239923 -

zappaisgod said:
Sterilization reduces poverty better.  Do you want that?


It doesn't matter what you or I want.  Let's take it to the ballot box.  I'm sure your idea would fail miserably, but who knows?

zappaisgod said:
Why not more?  If some is good more is better.  It will stimulate even more spending.


Because businesses can't afford to pay people a billion dollars an hour.  :facepalm:

zappaisgod said:
LIiving wage bullshit again.  Should the minimum wage be more for somebody with 3 kids than for somebody with none living in his parent's basement?


I don't know how many times I've already answered that question for you.  No, I don't think we shouldn't pay people a higher minimum wage just because they choose to have 3 or more kids.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21240533 -

The Ecstatic said:
You're really comparing a liveable wage to eugenics? :facepalm:


No, you get the face palm.  What the fuck are you babbling about?
Quote:
Oh, and there are tax credits for parents.


I don't know what this has to do with the question.


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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21241041 -

zappaisgod said:
You have all these wonderful dreams but the fact of that matter is that redistributing wealth is not creating wealth.  By your model extrapolated we should have a $100 an hour minimum wage and that will be stimulative.  Absurdism to the nth degree.


This is a classical example of reductio ad absurdum.

You cannot argue against a slight increase in minimum wage by saying a $100/hr minimum wage is unsustainable.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21242743 -

I would like to humbly request that people stop using idiotic words and phrases like sustainable, affordable, reform and living wage.  I'm sure there are more than a few buzzwords with no meaning that I am missing.


If a higher minimum wage is so good and lets more people buy shit thus stimulating the fuck out of the economy why not make it $100 an hour?  At what point do you think the minimum wage tipping point is where it stops being stimulative for the general overall economy?  I think it is zero.  I think it has absolutely no positive effect on the overall economy.


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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21242847 -

repeating yourself with more adjectives doesn't make your claim anymore true. As BoldAsLove pointed out, it's fallacious on its face.


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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21242910 -

BoldAsLove said:
This is a classical example of reductio ad absurdum.

You cannot argue against a slight increase in minimum wage by saying a $100/hr minimum wage is unsustainable.


The current minimum wage is environmentally unsustainable.  The current US minimum wage affords a worker more resources than the world can provide per capita.  With the US minimum wage you are in the top ten percent of highest resource consumption in the world.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: DieCommie] * 2
    #21243003 -

So? If you make more than $35k a year you're in the richest 1%. Guess we should start capping salaries AT minimum wage to prevent this unsustainable (read: unfair) condition.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (02/08/15 12:15 PM)

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21243098 -

Maybe...  Something is going to give eventually.  The world cannot support all people living a US minimum wage lifestyle though... Not even close.  Like it or not the world cannot provide every family with electricity a house and a car.  If you think Americans deserve more than the rest of the world just for being an American then you are a nationalist bigot.  If you think that Americans deserve more than the rest of the world because we work harder and smarter then the minimum wage isn't needed.

In either case... When you advocate that the top 10% need to consume more resources you are advocating for more wealth disparity and you are advocating for the haves getting more and the have-nots getting less.  And you somehow convince yourself you are a champion of the poor while doing so (by conveniently ignoring the bulk of humanity)...

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: DieCommie]
    #21243128 -

I think this might be the first time I've ever agreed with DieCommie.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Enlil]
    #21243241 -

I'm advocating laws that would help the average American, I barely have a voice in my own congressional district, let alone global economic policy. Yeah, things suck more in worse places. Let's ship all our income in excess of the global average to impoverished communities so we can feel better about ourselves when we hope for a better life.


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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21243603 -

zappaisgod said:
I would like to humbly request that people stop using idiotic words and phrases like sustainable, affordable, reform and living wage.  I'm sure there are more than a few buzzwords with no meaning that I am missing.


I would like to humbly request that after we spend lengthy discussions explaining to you what a living wage is, you remember the discussion and stop pretending you're a newbie.

zappaisgod said:
If a higher minimum wage is so good and lets more people buy shit thus stimulating the fuck out of the economy why not make it $100 an hour?  At what point do you think the minimum wage tipping point is where it stops being stimulative for the general overall economy?  I think it is zero.  I think it has absolutely no positive effect on the overall economy.


As I said before, we don't know at what point minimum wage is too big to be sustainable.  So it makes more sense to gradually increase it until we begin seeing negative effects.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Enlil]
    #21243612 -

Enlil said:
I think this might be the first time I've ever agreed with DieCommie.


I agree that the whole world can't have a US minimum wage, but do you think we should intentionally lower our standard of living here in the US as a result?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #21243648 -

zappaisgod said:
I would like to humbly request that people stop using idiotic words and phrases like sustainable, affordable, reform and living wage.  I'm sure there are more than a few buzzwords with no meaning that I am missing.


If a higher minimum wage is so good and lets more people buy shit thus stimulating the fuck out of the economy why not make it $100 an hour?  At what point do you think the minimum wage tipping point is where it stops being stimulative for the general overall economy?  I think it is zero.  I think it has absolutely no positive effect on the overall economy.


I would like to humbly request that you actually discuss the topic at hand. No one here is advocating for raising the minimum wage to $100/hr. Once again, you are reducing the argument to an absurd point. You can read about the fallacy here if needed.

To give an example, if you argued that lowering taxes would be beneficial, I could argue that reducing taxes to 0 would not be beneficial because we wouldn't have a government. Clearly not a valid argument against lowering taxes. Similarly, I could argue that raising taxes is beneficial, and you can argue that raising taxes to 100% is clearly not beneficial. Again, definitely not a valid argument against raising taxes.

So as opposed to arguing against a ridiculous proposition that everyone here agrees is ridiculous, why not try arguing the actual subject matter?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21243663 -

:toast:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21243738 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I agree that the whole world can't have a US minimum wage, but do you think we should intentionally lower our standard of living here in the US as a result?


No, but I also don't think we should raise the standard of living for our poor by creating some arbitrary and artificial bottom that would be considered wealthy by a global standard.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Enlil]
    #21243884 -

Enlil said:
No, but I also don't think we should raise the standard of living for our poor by creating some arbitrary and artificial bottom that would be considered wealthy by a global standard.


I'm not really advocating for an "arbitrary" bottom, but a living wage (~$12-13/hr) bottom.  :shrug:

Obviously, opinions vary and we can debate whether or not it's good to have a lot of needy people in the country.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21243895 -

That's arbitrary.  The vast majority of people in the world live on less than that, so setting the "living wage" at $12 is completely arbitrary and based on a standard of living that would be wealthy if viewed globally.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Enlil]
    #21243949 -

Enlil said:
That's arbitrary.  The vast majority of people in the world live on less than that, so setting the "living wage" at $12 is completely arbitrary and based on a standard of living that would be wealthy if viewed globally.


It's a standard that means your full time wages are liveable enough that your life not be subsidized by the government. And I'm not talking iPhones and big screens, I'm talking a paycheck that's enough to get food, clothes, housing, transportation, etc.


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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #21243962 -

I think the minimum wage, and support programs, should be left up to the states.  The Statist 'One-Size-Fits-All' policies for things like welfare and wages don't necessarily work exactly the same everywhere and end up being very inefficient in some states/regions while working ok in others.  That is, Uncle Sam needs to get the fuck out of the way and let the states do their own programs, policies, and laws.

But as Enlil pointed out a month or two ago, the government has gotten so big that the system won't work anymore the way it was originally designed to work by the founders.  :shrug:


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Re: Mike Rowe's thoughts on the minimum wage [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21243969 -

One can get food, clothes, and housing by working 40 hours at minimum wage today.  There are millions who do so for less than minimum in the U.S. 

It's arbitrary because it assumes that one must eat more than ramen every day, live without 20 roommates, and wear clothes that weren't purchased at the Salvation Army.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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