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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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What are your beliefs and how did you get them?
#2110351 - 11/15/03 10:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have been wondering this about the people in this forum.
Take a second to think of some of the things that guide you when you formulate opinions. What are some of the occurrences in your life that shaped your outlook on things?
I'll go first:
When I first became interested in having "opinions" and thinking about profound things, I was immediately drawn to punk rock. I admired the rebellion and political commentary in a lot of the music. In case you don't know, most of the political leanings of punk music is decidely in the Left-ish area. I absorbed any idea that was Left of center. I absolutely believed in the righteousness and accuracy of my beliefs.
As I got older, I started to question my beliefs and how I got them. I realized that I had just emulated a lot of opinions that I had been exposed to instead of thinking critically for myself. I found that a lot of people espoused certain beliefs not because they were intelligent, but because they were enamored with the image that these beliefs projected to the world. In other words, they advertised these opinions because they were vain. This is when I started to develop a serious mistrust of liberalism. I also developed a deep suspicion of anybody who followed something instead of observing reality for themselves and coming to their own conclusions. Admittedly, I am contemptuous of any follower(no matter where they may rest on the ideological spectrum).
So, I started to read a lot and rationally think about a lot of topics using my own brain and my own direction. Some of my ideas could be classified as extreme Left, others as extreme Right. I prefer to not allow myself to be classified and pigeon-holed as being a "certain something".
I try to examine reality without any bias. I try to observe what has really happened and how that makes me feel. I listen to other's opinions, but I do not allow them to sway me with anything but the legitmacy of their argument. I now try to be a logical and articulate person, and that is what I will try to continue to do.
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#2112776 - 11/16/03 07:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Direct experience.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#2115903 - 11/17/03 10:35 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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same here - Direct experience.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#2116233 - 11/17/03 11:48 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Indeed. Welcome to adulthood! Although there are those who are legally adults who still emulate the opinions of those around them, etc. For example, the army of Rush Limbaugh's "ditto-heads".
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#2116393 - 11/17/03 12:20 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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i thought i was an anarchist for a while. haha. i was a socialist. i've been a democrat... i was a green party supporter once... then i started coming here and started seeing how much bullshit all of that is. i'd never really witnessed the leftist, collectivist doctrines be raked over the coals of reason before, and i've now seen that when they are, they don't hold up very well.
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#2116460 - 11/17/03 12:38 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Epistemology should be taught at early levels. How do we know what we know, really? Zahid and Invertigo both credit direct experience for their beliefs. I know their beliefs are often in opposition. I'd like to hear either one of them, or both, defend their view of "direct experience."
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hongomon
old hand
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Loc: comin' at ya
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
#2116464 - 11/17/03 12:39 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Have you stopped finding bullshit in things?
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
#2116469 - 11/17/03 12:40 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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huh?
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
#2116553 - 11/17/03 12:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Then i started coming here and started seeing how much bullshit all of that is."
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
#2116574 - 11/17/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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i still don't follow you.
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
#2116689 - 11/17/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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same here.
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hongomon
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
#2116844 - 11/17/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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then i started coming here and started seeing how much bullshit all of that is.
That's what I'm talking about. Im not making nany big deals.
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
#2118071 - 11/17/03 07:31 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Alright, one last time. Mushmaster started seeing bullshit in something that origianally he/she had subscribed to. Then he/she stopped finding bullshit in all of it. I was wondering if he/she had found a way to sift through the buillshit.
Consider my first post in the thread.
If this is still confusing,
too bad.
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
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Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
#2118184 - 11/17/03 08:25 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
hongomon said: Epistemology should be taught at early levels. How do we know what we know, really? Zahid and Invertigo both credit direct experience for their beliefs. I know their beliefs are often in opposition. I'd like to hear either one of them, or both, defend their view of "direct experience."
I think everyone believes as experience dictates. We are talking about political beliefs, I'm assuming.
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
#2118347 - 11/17/03 09:05 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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no no... i still see quite a bit of bullshit in it. more and more all the time.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
#2119596 - 11/18/03 11:40 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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My only principle is that I have no principles.
No system is always right or always wrong.
Everything thats true is only true in its place and time. There is no universal truth.
I recognize no postulates.
I do believe Bruce Lee said it best when he said: "The Tao of Jeet Kun Do is using no way as way And having no limitation as limitation."
This to me, is what it means to be an anarchist. Non-adherence to any system or code. This is also what it means to me to be a human, as opposed to a machine. To me, anarchism has little to do with politics, and is more a statement of philosophy. In my mind, there is nothing hypocritical about an anarchist supporting a fascist government, although it could only happen if the situation was just right.
Obviously, Eastern mysticism has played a big role in how I think. My father was a Taoist, but he was also a conservative- in the Jeffersonian, libertarian sense of the word. Definitely a Lassiez-faire capitalist. But he failed to realize that even that is a system and no system is always right. There are exceptions to every rule. The majority of my beliefs come from a combination of hammering things out with my dad in debates and philosophical discussions (which we've had since I was a very small child), and real world observations through life experience.
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: DoctorJ]
#2119631 - 11/18/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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"There is no universal truth.
I recognize no postulates."
you contradict yourself.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
#2119664 - 11/18/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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CAPTAIN OBVIOUS TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!! If you pointed that out to a Zen master, he would hit you with his cane make you stand on your head for 12 hours. the point is that the Universe is fundamentally illogical.
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Anonymous
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: DoctorJ]
#2119672 - 11/18/03 12:06 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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the point is that the Universe is fundamentally illogical.
prove it!
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: DoctorJ]
#2119689 - 11/18/03 12:10 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: the point is that the Universe is fundamentally illogical.
Huh? The universe is contrary to the rules of sound logic or reasoning? Check your premises. The universe is. Our models of it may be logically or illogically constructed, that does not change what is.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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