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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Fuzzy Logic
    #3252661 - 10/19/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

osama bin laden was a bigger threat to the US than saddam hussein

the northern alliance had their own agenda in afghanistan

but it made the "most sense" to have northern alliance fighters instead of american troops wage the war in afghanistan

?


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3252694 - 10/19/04 07:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've known someone for a couple years who came from Afganistan. I like to test some Muslims (as well as other people) by asking them certain questions that might provide me with certain insights. I asked him one day if he was happy that the Taliban were overthrown. He looked frustrated and said "Whatever". Back in the 80's I came across another Afgani who said he left Afganistan because of the war against the Soviet Union. Note that both are now US citizens. BTW, now that I think about it someone else I know who was born in Moscow just got back from vacation in Europe. I asked him how people over there feel about Americans and he said he's never seen anything like the hate that I find on the internet in real life over there. His English accent sounds American and his Russian accent sounds Russian. Where I am, I'm around a lot of people who were born in foreign countries. There's lots of Koreans who work in stores. The guy that sits next to me is from China. There's two Philipino girls in our office. One guy is from Japan. I hear Spanish everwhere from latin Americans.


Edited by Great_Satan (10/19/04 07:53 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3252696 - 10/19/04 07:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It made sense to have them work with Special Forces personnel. Too bad we sent more SF people to Iraq than we did to Afghanistan.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,746
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Evolving]
    #3252742 - 10/19/04 07:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can you demonstrate that any specific number of troops would have made a difference? 2X? 5? 10X?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3252809 - 10/19/04 08:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Osama has been dead for close to three years. WOO HOO!


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Tastes just like chicken


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 4 days
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3252818 - 10/19/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can you demonstrate that he is alive?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,746
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3252852 - 10/19/04 08:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Can you demonstrate that he is alive?



I haven't claimed he is.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3252866 - 10/19/04 08:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Osama had/has kidney problems. He's also 46 or 47 years old if still alive.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bin+laden+kidney&btnG=Google+Search



Edited by Great_Satan (10/19/04 08:29 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3252888 - 10/19/04 08:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I know. I'm with you on this. He has been completely neutralized, whether dead or alive. But we clearly need to throw in at least 5 million more troops to hunt for his body. This is why Kerry needs a draft.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3253181 - 10/19/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Can you demonstrate that any specific number of troops would have made a difference? 2X? 5? 10X?



Not without actually trying it. Just as in economics, when money is diverted to certain government programs, we will never know the possibilities that have passed us by, the lost opportunities that we can never measure. Since the court jester is president and another complicit fool is waiting in the wings we are doomed to additional short sightedness for the foreseeable future. To divert resources to Iraq, which was not a threat to the U.S. was FOOLISH. We are deeper in debt, have more enemies, lost the good will which was afforded us from 9/11, American soldiers are dead, remnants of the Taliban have reportedly regained control in many areas in Afghanistan, the opium trade has opened up again possibly providing financing for...? and what does the American Taxpayer have to show for it? The naive belief that since another attack has not happened since 9/11 that we are somehow safer. No one can demonstrate this either. The best we can say is that we are as safe today as we were on 9/10.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,746
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Evolving]
    #3253242 - 10/19/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So..... no, you can't.

That's what I thought.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3253281 - 10/19/04 10:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can you prove that the invasion of Iraq has made Americans safer from terrorism?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Evolving]
    #3253326 - 10/19/04 10:30 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can you prove the invasion of Iraq has made Americans less safe from terrorist attacks?

pinky


--------------------


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Phred]
    #3253370 - 10/19/04 10:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Can you prove the invasion of Iraq has made Americans less safe from terrorist attacks?

pinky



Considering the primary reason these people hate us enough to commit such acts is because of previous intervention effecting the lives and culture of their region, it stands to reason that ADDITIONAL intervention will increase, rather than decrease, animosity and therefore terrorism.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,746
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Evolving]
    #3253414 - 10/19/04 10:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Of course not. Fortunately... I didn't claim it did.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3253513 - 10/19/04 11:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ancalagon writes:

Considering the primary reason these people hate us enough to commit such acts is because of previous intervention effecting the lives and culture of their region, it stands to reason that ADDITIONAL intervention will increase, rather than decrease, animosity and therefore terrorism.

Your answer

1) assumes facts not in evidence -- that the primary reason the Jihadis attack the West (and the East, and even each other) is due to what the West has done rather than what the West represents.

2) does nothing to prove Americans are less safe from terrorists today than they were before Hussein's Ba'athist regime was deposed.


pinky


--------------------


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Phred]
    #3253674 - 10/19/04 11:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

1) assumes facts not in evidence -- that the primary reason the Jihadis attack the West (and the East, and even each other) is due to what the West has done rather than what the West represents.




As I do not have a pocket Jihadi from whom I can discern what, exactly, the motives of him and his buddies are, I have to go on the limited evidence available to me and what little ability to reason I possess. Osama Bin Laden himself has stated the reasons for his uprising, which included: constant military and financial support for Israel, the stationing of troops in the holy land, support of the Saudi Royal Family, etc. Which do you find more plausible, that fifty years of military adventurism that has resulted in the killing of innumerous innocents and unneccesary suffering has pissed some people off, or that a few of these dudes stumbled upon the Bill of Rights one day, flipped out, and decided to sacrifice their lives in an attempt to bring an end to this blasphemy. I'm not saying that they don't have a malignant view towards the west as a result of their warped interpretation of Islam, just that the primary reason the movement is as large and strong as it is today is because of fifty years of military intervention.

Quote:


2) does nothing to prove Americans are less safe from terrorists today than they were before Hussein's Ba'athist regime was deposed.




You'll notice my use of the logical clause 'it stands to reason' rather than 'therefore' in my previous post. I'd be lying if I said that it is an undeniable fact that we are creating terrorists via our excursion into Iraq. What I am arguing is that it is likely, based on several factors, that our presence in Iraq is resulting in a net increase in malevolence towards us.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3254054 - 10/20/04 12:50 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Your common sense has no place here, Anaclagon.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: Phred]
    #3255034 - 10/20/04 07:18 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can you prove the invasion of Iraq has made Americans less safe from terrorist attacks?

quite easily:

BEFORE the invasion, americans were not getting killed by iraqi terrorists on a daily basis.
AFTER the invasion, americans, both civilian and military, are getting killed by these newly created iraqi terrorists on a daily basis.

everyone here who is able to use his brain and integrate new data agrees that iraq was NOT A LEGITIMATE THREAT to the united states before the invasion

since the invasion and as a result of the invasion, some REAL THREATS have materialized in iraq

that's the reality

the invasion of iraq has been the biggest strategic blunder thus far in the war on terror
employing local fighters in afghanistan was the second biggest mistake...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Fuzzy Logic [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3255046 - 10/20/04 07:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can you demonstrate that any specific number of troops would have made a difference?

well the way it works is.. in a manhunt, the more men you have, the more likely it is that you will capture whoever you are looking for. it's not about sealing every mile of border with evenly spaced patrols, or covering every square inch of ground... that would be completely missing (or misreading) the point, and I'm sure nobody here would have THAT much trouble with reading comprehension.

having more men on the ground does not guarantee capture, nor is it completely futile. only a simpleton, who is capable of only thinking in black and white, would dismiss such a strategy as "futile" because it's impossible to actually cover every square inch. that's not really the point - having more resources increases the chances of capture. it's not that hard to understand. just try not to get caught up in details, like the exact number of troops, or the exact plan of deployment, and try to see the bigger picture.


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