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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
What are your beliefs and how did you get them?
    #2110351 - 11/16/03 12:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I have been wondering this about the people in this forum.

Take a second to think of some of the things that guide you
when you formulate opinions. What are some of the occurrences in
your life that shaped your outlook on things?

I'll go first:

When I first became interested in having "opinions" and thinking
about profound things, I was immediately drawn to punk rock.
I admired the rebellion and political commentary in a lot of the
music. In case you don't know, most of the political leanings
of punk music is decidely in the Left-ish area. I absorbed any
idea that was Left of center. I absolutely believed in the
righteousness and accuracy of my beliefs.

As I got older, I started to question my beliefs and how I got them.
I realized that I had just emulated a lot of opinions that I had
been exposed to instead of thinking critically for myself. I
found that a lot of people espoused certain beliefs not because
they were intelligent, but because they were enamored with the
image that these beliefs projected to the world. In other words,
they advertised these opinions because they were vain. This is
when I started to develop a serious mistrust of liberalism. I also
developed a deep suspicion of anybody who followed something instead
of observing reality for themselves and coming to their own
conclusions. Admittedly, I am contemptuous of any follower(no
matter where they may rest on the ideological spectrum).

So, I started to read a lot and rationally think about a lot of
topics using my own brain and my own direction. Some of my
ideas could be classified as extreme Left, others as extreme Right.
I prefer to not allow myself to be classified and pigeon-holed
as being a "certain something".

I try to examine reality without any bias. I try to observe what
has really happened and how that makes me feel. I listen to
other's opinions, but I do not allow them to sway me with anything
but the legitmacy of their argument. I now try to be a logical
and articulate person, and that is what I will try to continue to do.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2112776 - 11/16/03 09:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Direct experience.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2115903 - 11/17/03 12:35 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

same here - Direct experience.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2116233 - 11/17/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Indeed. Welcome to adulthood! Although there are those who are legally adults who still emulate the opinions of those around them, etc.
For example, the army of Rush Limbaugh's "ditto-heads".


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2116393 - 11/17/03 02:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i thought i was an anarchist for a while. haha. i was a socialist. i've been a democrat... i was a green party supporter once...

then i started coming here and started seeing how much bullshit all of that is. i'd never really witnessed the leftist, collectivist doctrines be raked over the coals of reason before, and i've now seen that when they are, they don't hold up very well.


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2116460 - 11/17/03 02:38 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Epistemology should be taught at early levels. How do we know what we know, really? Zahid and Invertigo both credit direct experience for their beliefs. I know their beliefs are often in opposition. I'd like to hear either one of them, or both, defend their view of "direct experience."


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
    #2116464 - 11/17/03 02:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Have you stopped finding bullshit in things?


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
    #2116469 - 11/17/03 02:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

huh?


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
    #2116553 - 11/17/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Then i started coming here and started seeing how much bullshit all of that is."


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
    #2116574 - 11/17/03 02:57 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i still don't follow you.


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
    #2116689 - 11/17/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

same here.


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
    #2116844 - 11/17/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

then i started coming here and started seeing how much bullshit all of that is.

That's what I'm talking about. Im not making nany big deals.


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
    #2118071 - 11/17/03 09:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Alright, one last time. Mushmaster started seeing bullshit in something that origianally he/she had subscribed to. Then he/she stopped finding bullshit in all of it. I was wondering if he/she had found a way to sift through the buillshit.

Consider my first post in the thread.

If this is still confusing,

too bad.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
    #2118184 - 11/17/03 10:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

hongomon said:
Epistemology should be taught at early levels. How do we know what we know, really? Zahid and Invertigo both credit direct experience for their beliefs. I know their beliefs are often in opposition. I'd like to hear either one of them, or both, defend their view of "direct experience."




I think everyone believes as experience dictates. We are talking about political beliefs, I'm assuming.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: hongomon]
    #2118347 - 11/17/03 11:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

no no... i still see quite a bit of bullshit in it. more and more all the time.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
    #2119596 - 11/18/03 01:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

My only principle is that I have no principles.

No system is always right or always wrong.

Everything thats true is only true in its place and time. There is no universal truth.

I recognize no postulates.

I do believe Bruce Lee said it best when he said:
"The Tao of Jeet Kun Do is using no way as way
And having no limitation as limitation."

This to me, is what it means to be an anarchist. Non-adherence to any system or code. This is also what it means to me to be a human, as opposed to a machine. To me, anarchism has little to do with politics, and is more a statement of philosophy. In my mind, there is nothing hypocritical about an anarchist supporting a fascist government, although it could only happen if the situation was just right.

Obviously, Eastern mysticism has played a big role in how I think. My father was a Taoist, but he was also a conservative- in the Jeffersonian, libertarian sense of the word. Definitely a Lassiez-faire capitalist. But he failed to realize that even that is a system and no system is always right. There are exceptions to every rule. The majority of my beliefs come from a combination of hammering things out with my dad in debates and philosophical discussions (which we've had since I was a very small child), and real world observations through life experience.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2119631 - 11/18/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"There is no universal truth.

I recognize no postulates."

you contradict yourself.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: ]
    #2119664 - 11/18/03 02:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!!

If you pointed that out to a Zen master, he would hit you with his cane make you stand on your head for 12 hours.

the point is that the Universe is fundamentally illogical.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Anonymous

Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2119672 - 11/18/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

the point is that the Universe is fundamentally illogical.

prove it!  :tongue:


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: What are your beliefs and how did you get them? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2119689 - 11/18/03 02:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
the point is that the Universe is fundamentally illogical.



Huh? The universe is contrary to the rules of sound logic or reasoning? Check your premises. The universe is. Our models of it may be logically or illogically constructed, that does not change what is.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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