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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: eatyualive]
    #20823207 -

eatyualive said:
i stopped using straw long ago bc i hate cutting it lol.. i used to have access to pelletized straw which is very helpful. ive heard southern states has it as horse bedding. ive broken numerous blenders, weed wackers and scissors trying to process bales. i made a promise to myself never to chop it again. you could mulch it in a wood mulcher but when i was working w straw i had no money or room for that. also being in college at the time, it was not an option.

http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-5840-streufex-horse-bedding-pellets-30lb.aspx

ill always pay extra so i dont have to process straw.


Are these the straw pellets that you use now as an alternative to cutting bails?


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: delta1]
    #20823218 -

delta1 said:
eatyualive said:
i stopped using straw long ago bc i hate cutting it lol.. i used to have access to pelletized straw which is very helpful. ive heard southern states has it as horse bedding. ive broken numerous blenders, weed wackers and scissors trying to process bales. i made a promise to myself never to chop it again. you could mulch it in a wood mulcher but when i was working w straw i had no money or room for that. also being in college at the time, it was not an option.

http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-5840-streufex-horse-bedding-pellets-30lb.aspx

ill always pay extra so i dont have to process straw.


Are these the straw pellets that you use now as an alternative to cutting bails?


i use strawnet which is pelletized wheat grass. but a few people have mentioned they work well. im going to try them in the next few months. i used something similar called "cat country cat litter" which was pelletized straw cat litter and worked well.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8925840


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: eatyualive]
    #20823243 -

I gotcha. I haven't started testing with straw yet since a lot of people have issues with trich, I decided to hold off experimenting. Those bedding pellets seem like a viable alternative to the "hassles" of prepping straw.


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: delta1]
    #20823321 -

delta1 said:
I gotcha. I haven't started testing with straw yet since a lot of people have issues with trich, I decided to hold off experimenting. Those bedding pellets seem like a viable alternative to the "hassles" of prepping straw.


yes key to straw is mix it with something that coats it like dung. always cut pieces as small as possible and you dont want any pieces sticking up and uncoated, also use a high spawn ratio so you colonize it fast. i tend to keep straw subs less than 30% straw.


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: delta1]
    #20823324 -

I have almost been doing a similar thing for all my tubs since I seen the improved bucket tek.

I have a big stew pot that I boil my water in and mix my coir up.  I just tin foil off the top.  I have been using much a much higher temperature though, 200 for 1hr.  I read somewhere that cooking the coir makes it easier for the myc.  Decided to try it, 100% no contam so far.  Even in substrates that I have kept until the 3rd flush, there was not even a bit of yellowing on top.


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Edited by MikeBearPig (11/11/14 02:19 PM)

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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #20823356 -

I think I'll stop at my local feed shop and give those Bedding Pellets a try. If Nothing else, I'll be out $9 in the name of SCIENCE!:thumbup:


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #20823364 -

MikeBearPig said:
I have almost been doing a similar thing for all my tubs since I seen the improved bucket tek.

I have a big stew pot that I boil my water in and mix my coir up.  I just tin foil off the top.  I have been using much a much higher temperature though, 200 for 1hr.  I read somewhere that cooking the coir makes it easier for the myc.  Decided to try it, 100% no contam so far.  Even in substrates that I have kept until the 3rd flush, there was not even a bit of yellowing on top.


:thumbup:


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: eatyualive]
    #20880894 -

i used this tek for my casing and work well, i've bring it over field capacity a bit and turned out perfect
so if i make it at field capacity before i put it in the oven, it will probably be dry enough to spawn with slurry right?


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: eatyualive]
    #20881029 -

Hey eat do you think this could be done at about 155 for 3 hours instead?  My oven is weird with its settings and doesn't let me get 170 exactly, the best I can do is aim it just a little high of what I assume might be 150.  It goes from Warm -> 200 -> 250->300 so I can only assume warm is 150.

I've been doing frank's pasteurization tek but if it's this easy then I'll just do it that way, but this oven sketches me out with its setup.


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: Inocuole]
    #20881057 -

I think the goal is to get the internal core temp of the sub to 140F - 160F for 2 hours.

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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: blackdust]
    #20881062 -

I'm familiar with the concept of pasteurization, thanks.  Just not how well heat holds in the core when in an oven, because dry heat is something I've been told to stay away from before.


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: Inocuole]
    #20881072 -

Then whats the question?

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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: blackdust]
    #20881076 -

Jeez, you know, the part of what I said that ended in a question mark?

:facepalm:

Why do some of you have to bring this out in me? :grrr:


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: Inocuole]
    #20881124 -

Inocuole said:
Jeez, you know, the part of what I said that ended in a question mark?

:facepalm:

Why do some of you have to bring this out in me? :grrr:



sorry. must smoked to much kush. im off to call of duty.

:stoner:


Edit: Oh, use a meat thermometer to measure the core temp of the sub.

Edited by blackdust (11/23/14 08:02 PM)

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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: blackdust]
    #20881141 -

I have a thermometer for that.  I just don't want to spend hours and hours experimenting with substrate that I can't afford to waste, and was hoping for a reassurance on how I should handle it if I wanted to follow his tek with my whack ass oven.

That's what teks are for, so instead of me dicking around with the oven for months and ultimately giving up on it, I can try something someone says works and never have to look back.  That's how I ended up pasteurizing on the stove originally.

Sorry eatyu, didn't mean to uh.. derail at all.

Ideally I could get my oven in the 160-170 range but I would have no idea where it was at exactly.  Would the 2.5 hours still work even with a slightly reduced temperature or am I better off just going with 3 to make up the difference?


--------------------
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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: cArcace-x]
    #20881185 -

cArcace-x said:
i used this tek for my casing and work well, i've bring it over field capacity a bit and turned out perfect
so if i make it at field capacity before i put it in the oven, it will probably be dry enough to spawn with slurry right?


lets say your adding 1 quart full volume of water/cake slurry to the substrate. you would want 1 quart less than field capacity.


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: Inocuole]
    #20881193 -

Inocuole said:
Hey eat do you think this could be done at about 155 for 3 hours instead?  My oven is weird with its settings and doesn't let me get 170 exactly, the best I can do is aim it just a little high of what I assume might be 150.  It goes from Warm -> 200 -> 250->300 so I can only assume warm is 150.

I've been doing frank's pasteurization tek but if it's this easy then I'll just do it that way, but this oven sketches me out with its setup.


i only say 170 because this is the lowest setting on my oven. read about pasteurization temps. you want to bring the inner temp to range then keep it at that temp for 2 hours. some people use 1 hour. ive always used two. 1 may work, but i can't suggest it as i have never attempted it. i know for me, the 2 hour mark works perfectly so i just stick with it. i guess in the near future i might as well try 1 hour.

ive also tried this with a crappy ass old gas stove that said the lowest setting was 200 degrees. but i was doubtful this oven was even reading correctly it was so old. it still worked for me with 200 degrees. but i was not cooking casings this way. only bulk substrates with dung and verm. the last place i lived my lowest setting was 200 degrees with an electric oven. it worked for me as well. so ive tried it on a total of 3 electric stoves, 1 gas stove over an 11 year span.

im not familiar with franks pasteurization method. ive used a number of different methods with a pressure cooker and water coolers when i used to bulk up dung/straw heavily. i would have to pasteurize large amounts. i find this works for me fairly easy. ive used it literally thousands of times since 2003 with a very low contam rate. just know that every ones oven is slightly different. and you may have to adjust the temps/settings to fit the oven. what i mean is, like blackdust said, he checked the inner temps to see what the timing was on the oven to bring it up to the proper core temperature. then kept it at that temp for 2 hours. thats the goal.

just use a turkey thermometer to monitor the inner temperature. when you get to the correct temp, start your two hour timer. then measure every 30 minutes or so to make sure the oven is keeping the temperature correct. with electric ovens i don't even have to look. i know that the one i use takes 30 minutes to get to proper core temps, then i set it for 2 hours and its good to go. this may slightly vary on your oven. but once you monitor how long it takes to get to core temp and what setting you used. you can follow it every time. im a little more lax when it comes to things like this. i don't stress so much on the details about it. i just stick it in the oven for 2.5 hours at 170 on my oven. i can run up to 16 tubs a week. so it has quite a bit of testing being done with good results. also, this type of pasteurization has been used on the omc since the stone age. agar/6tango/mycota uses it as well.




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Edited by eatyualive (11/23/14 08:59 PM)

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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: Inocuole]
    #20881228 -

Inocuole said:
I have a thermometer for that.  I just don't want to spend hours and hours experimenting with substrate that I can't afford to waste, and was hoping for a reassurance on how I should handle it if I wanted to follow his tek with my whack ass oven.

That's what teks are for, so instead of me dicking around with the oven for months and ultimately giving up on it, I can try something someone says works and never have to look back.  That's how I ended up pasteurizing on the stove originally.

Sorry eatyu, didn't mean to uh.. derail at all.

Ideally I could get my oven in the 160-170 range but I would have no idea where it was at exactly.  Would the 2.5 hours still work even with a slightly reduced temperature or am I better off just going with 3 to make up the difference?


dude id rather have good discussion like your doing than you think your derailing anything. i don't mind at all its completely on topic.

from what ive read in the past ideally its 160-170 degrees for a minimum of two hours. but ive seen some folks recently saying its 140 for an hour. ive always done the 160-170 thing in the oven and it works. ive not tried the lower 140. but when i was reading articles way back when i was 160-170.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5325700

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10125408

http://www.shroomery.org/8393/Oven-Bag-Pasteurization-Pictorial

Quote:
If the compost substrate never rises much above 140o F there is minimum effect on the good microbes that convert ammonia. However on most commercial farms the compost substrate temperature reaches 140o F before the air temperature will. When this happens the compost substrate temperatures will continue to rise as the air temperature reaches and is held at 140o F. Usually the compost substrate temperature continues to climb into the high 140o F, or sometimes to 160o F and this maximum temperature is sometimes referred to as the "override." High override temperatures may kill or inactivate the good microbes.



from here.

http://extension.psu.edu/plants/vegetable-fruit/mushrooms/mushroom-substrate/microbial-activity

here is another one i found. they all say something different.

Quote:
Water Bath

Pasteurization occurs between 160 and 180 degrees Fahrenheit. Anything more than that and you risk killing good bacteria and allowing the bad to bloom.

With a water bath, you pasteurize by soaking the straw in 160-degree water for an hour. You can do whatever you want to accomplish this, but here are common methods for larger and smaller amounts of straw:


http://www.mushroom-appreciation.com/pasteurize.html


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Edited by eatyualive (11/23/14 09:09 PM)

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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: eatyualive]
    #20892748 -

I search oven pasteurization and this is first thing that pops up.  With Thanksgiving coming up, I'll definitely be getting some turkey tins.  This seems to easy to be true Eats.  Bookmarked


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Re: EZ Oven Pasteurization 123 [Re: Dilated]
    #20896288 -

Dilated said:
I search oven pasteurization and this is first thing that pops up.  With Thanksgiving coming up, I'll definitely be getting some turkey tins.  This seems to easy to be true Eats.  Bookmarked


well read agar's thread where he talks about dry and wet pasteurization and i think that will help understand the differences. he and hyphae have some good discussion about cubes not needing certain microbes to fruit well.

ive always used 160-170 and it has worked very well for me. yeah too easy to be true. when i initially tried this around the year 1999 major millet was suggesting it to me. and i tried it, it worked so well i never used another method it super easy. i used to do a bath type pasteurization in an ice chest or my pc.

the difference though between wet and oven pasteurization is that in oven pasteurization you bring the moisture content above field capacity up front so that your not losing too much water to evaporation. where if your doing it wet, you sometimes have to let the substrate drain or lose water. back in the day people used to use pillow cases for wet pasteurization and let it hang for a while until all the extra water would fall out. i used to do something similar with straw.

now people use bags that already have the substrate to field capacity and then do a water bath type pasteurization. i just don't like tending to it and constantly having to look to check temps. i like to set it in the oven and then turn it off when the time goes off. then spawn after it cools. its real simple.

also that article that said 140 was talking about composting. since we are not composting i think its a little different. they had about 20 previous steps before they pasteurized the composted substrate.


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