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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Sexism
    #2020383 - 10/18/03 01:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Some women have said that I am a cynic. Some women have even gone so far as to say that I am a sexist.

Niether of these statements is true. I am a hopeless romantic. My cynicism is a means of protecting my fragile heart. Whatever sexist tendencies I have have been learned from women.

I am sick of this notion among women that men come into this world with a predisposition to sexism. We don't. This behavior is learned.

When i say: "Women are sluts," this is not a stereotypical bias. This is something i have learned from personal experience. I wouldn't think that way if so many women hadn't fucked me over.

Five years ago, if you said to me: "Women are sluts. Don't ever trust them with your heart," I would have been like, "No, man, you're a sexist." Having been around a bit, now I know better.

Women have called me a "player", because I sleep around and avoid emotional attachment. Whats funny is that I would like nothing more than a steady, committed relationship. I have yet to find a woman capable of this. Women are the real players. Men just do it to protect themselves.

Anyway, I am a firm believer that sexist mentality is caused by women, and the bullshit that they frequently pull.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinedomite
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Registered: 04/12/03
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Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2020929 - 10/18/03 06:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Women are sluts. Don't ever trust them with your heart"

*claps*


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2021066 - 10/18/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I see where you are coming from... and even from our last *cough* fiasco... i would say that my harsh tone towards people comes from a need to protect myself. Our hearts are not rocks, although we seem to throw them sometimes, doesnt mean that we are partial, or an enemy. there are a lot of "sexist" men out there, and how they got a problem, who knows. Those are real tight ass motherfuckers, i know we would probably all like to get our hands around, and knock the shit out of them. Most of the "sexist" men are just ego tistical, and like to piss everyone off. Like big red neck mother fucker, or ass hole new yorker, some generalization like that.  :lol: . There are too many people playing the "sexist", victim roll, if people were to stand up for shit instead of crying and whining, and acting on whims, there would be sooooo much less bullshit for the world to deal with. Owell. 


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What?


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Registered: 08/05/02
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Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
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Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2021237 - 10/18/03 09:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

People who call you sexist could'nt be thinking about what they're saying.

Pain and problems are plenty on both sides. Women are gold digging sluts and men are assholes who only see women as sexual objects blablablabla. Men do become defensive if they get hurt and so do women. But in the thick of it all, women probably come out the most 'innocent'.


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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2021272 - 10/18/03 09:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:rolleyes:

You sit there and say you have made a decision based on your "experiences".

Well, so have I and just as you feel that your opinions have been confirmed, so do I.  So I guess they are the right opinions to have and can be validated by people who think like each of us.  Right?... since neither of us has been in each others shoes.

I think alot of men are arrogant, ignorant assholes.  I dont think all men are tho.  I have a whole host of fantastic male friends that are absolutely awesome - not to mention GeorgeWash, my super groovy fiance.  How you cannot say you are sterotyping women and have some true issues with forgiveness and bias after labeling all women as sluts because of your experience is beyond me.  When someone shows themselves to be that way, think whatever you want.  But to label all of a human sex something.. if that aint stereotypical, I dunno what is.

As a woman, since you boys dont seem to get alot of womanly advice, here is my opinion.

You learn cynicism from being with the wrong people.  You start to accept cynicism as truth from not valuing yourself enough that other people's shitty actions become okay with you, they become acceptable. 

So you are right, sexism is learned.  It is learned every time you let a man call a woman a bitch or say they are only for "fucking".  It is learned every time you decide not to be a better person yourself.  It is learned everytime you give your heart, in any degree, to someone who doesnt deserve it.  That is a choice you make, you choose to accept and project shit, or you treat people with respect.. including yourself.  You recieve what you put out in the world.  If someone is a slut or walks all over you or what not, it is because you let them.  You feel you arent valuable enough to not condone that.  Be you a woman or a man.

Personally, I think that devaluing yourself that way is bullshit and Im worth alot more then that.  I'd suggest if you think women are such sluts you stop condoning that behavior and find women who arent.  If you cant, honestly... you need to go back and work on yourself because if you hold every woman you meet in some type of slut category then what the hell do you expect?  You seem to just be projecting yourself onto them because you havent reached that point in your life that you know how to love and be in a relationship.  So, it's easier to blame the opposite sex for your actions or inability instead of realizing that it is you that filters and fibers the world into whatever you want. 

I like coming to the shroomery so that I can hopefully mentor to the women here that act so whorish because that's what the men here seem to want.. that they dont have to be slutty to get attention.  I mean, that is all they are after anyway, attention.  I see it with each new crop of ladies.  It's such a downward spiral.. sexualize yourself to get attention on a bb dominated by horny adolescent men, because heaven forbid if you stand up for yourself.. for your intelligence, for all of the things you could bring to to this place.  Then yer a "feminist", "sexist slut", "drama queen". 

DrJ, you told me the other day that women couldnt be treated like "princesses" and have equal rights.  I mean, think about that statement.  You dont think you exude sexism?  You ( and many others on these boards) act like it is a ridiculous concept to treat women with respect.. to treat them like women.  Well, because that is how you feel, to me it is no wonder that in your life women have become the "players", taking on the traditional male role.  I just dont understand that if this is ( this being your post and others by you)  what you are projecting.. just what the hell you are expecting?


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Sexism [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2021375 - 10/18/03 10:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

sluttyness works if you want attention. I imagine they're just addicted to jumping the delay that is required to get it. Im just speculating of course, as i am guy, so...


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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Sexism [Re: David_Scape]
    #2021395 - 10/18/03 10:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"I imagine they're just addicted to jumping the delay that is required to get it. Im just speculating of course, as i am guy, so... "

That very well may be the case. All I can do is give my experience from talking to them, as a woman.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Sexism [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2021550 - 10/18/03 11:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

  How you cannot say you are sterotyping women and have some true issues with forgiveness and bias after labeling all women as sluts because of your experience is beyond me. When someone shows themselves to be that way, think whatever you want. But to label all of a human sex something.. if that aint stereotypical, I dunno what is.





I would advise you to read Dr. Tatiana's Sex Advice to All Creation.  It is a very excellent evolutionary psychology book (written by a woman, too).  Dr. Tatiana confirms that the female in every species is the more promiscuous sex, and explains why this has given them a selective evolutionary advantage.  The chance of fertilization is greater if the female has multiple partners.  Thus, slutty genes are selected, and have been for millions of years.  Conversely, Males have an evolutionary incentive to protect their genetics, even at the cost of another male's.  This is why men are possesive. 

Of course, you could disagree with science, but if you choose to do so, I would ask you to stop driving your car, turn off your a/c, and stop eating refrigerated food. 

Quote:

You sit there and say you have made a decision based on your "experiences".




yes, and those of my friends.  First hand information is often the most accurate.  I should have also mentioned that I study psychology, and have done so for many years.  I read a lot of research (experiments, studies, etc).  I should say I have a few friends in long term relationships, but they always seem to be symbiotic, more of a mutual exchange than love.  If I really like a girl, I try to press for longevity in relationships, but its a very taxing game, and even if I win, I still feel unloved.

Quote:

You learn cynicism from being with the wrong people. 




I have been with all kinds of girls.  No matter how different they were, a common thread ran through them.  Straight edge or dope fiend, religious or atheist, rich or poor, most of the women I have met have cared only for themselves and didnt respect my feelings. 


Quote:

So you are right, sexism is learned. It is learned every time you let a man call a woman a bitch or say they are only for "fucking". 




you're right.  I should have said "bitches are only for fucking...  and wasting money on."  BTW, a bitch isnt a woman.  A bitch is a bitch.  If she proves to me she is a lady, I will treat her like one.  Until then, she's just a bitch to me.  I'm the same way with men too, btw.  Dont mistake misanthropy for sexism.

Quote:

It is learned every time you decide not to be a better person yourself.




I've been a better person.  I've been sensitive and caring, moreso than you would probably guess.  Didn't get me anything but heartbreak.  The only reason women want men to be more sensitive is so they can use us and walk on us like doormats.

Quote:

  It is learned everytime you give your heart, in any degree, to someone who doesnt deserve it. That is a choice you make, you choose to accept and project shit, or you treat people with respect.. including yourself. You recieve what you put out in the world. If someone is a slut or walks all over you or what not, it is because you let them. 




Falling in love has never been a decision I have made.  You need to learn a little more about male emotions.  Maybe then you might realize why guys don't want to hang out with a girl they know is taken :wink:

Quote:

I'd suggest if you think women are such sluts you stop condoning that behavior and find women who arent.




sorry, I'm not into religious prudes and sexual naivetie.  I like having sex.  I dont appreciate that women dont seem to respect the emotional bond it creates.  There is a difference between "not being a slut" and being a chaste prude.

women make guys to all this work just to get with them.  We have to initialize first contact.  We have to pay for everything.  We have to entertain her.  By the time we get laid, there's been all this build up that has attatched us to the girl, but by that time, she's gotten everything she wanted from us.  A few nice dinners, a little entertainment, and a fuck.  She knows she can start the whole thing over again with one of a million guys that hit on her every day. 


Quote:

If you cant, honestly... you need to go back and work on yourself because if you hold every woman you meet in some type of slut category then what the hell do you expect? You seem to just be projecting yourself onto them because you havent reached that point in your life that you know how to love and be in a relationship. 




It was easy to do when I was younger.  Women have robbed me of this ability by meeting every attempt at a loving committed relationship with scandalous, slutty behavior. 

Can you accept that?  Can you believe that deep down I'm a nice guy that just wants to settle down and be in love with a girl who can give it back equally? 

They put your hero Jesus on the cross because he was a nice guy.  Nice guys finish last.  Its basic human nature.  Women chew nice guys up and spit them out when they meet a guy with a bigger dick and a faster car.

Quote:

I like coming to the shroomery so that I can hopefully mentor to the women here that act so whorish because that's what the men here seem to want.. that they dont have to be slutty to get attention. I mean, that is all they are after anyway, attention. I see it with each new crop of ladies. It's such a downward spiral.. sexualize yourself to get attention on a bb dominated by horny adolescent men




Men want girls that like them, and will appreciate them.  Do you have any idea how it feels to be the one who bears the burden of the entire relationship?  Just once, I would like a girl to buy ME a drink.  Or start a conversation.  I want a girl who cares about me as much as I care about her.  I'm sick of being asked to take all of the initiative. 

BTW, women want attention because they are inherently emotionally self-centered, like all human beings (men, too!).  Look it up in your nearest psych book.

Quote:

heaven forbid if you stand up for yourself.. for your intelligence, for all of the things you could bring to to this place. Then yer a "feminist", "sexist slut", "drama queen".





And heaven forbid I stand up for MY rights and feelings, because then I'm a "sexist pig" who "treats women like shit and bitches about how they are such bitches"

Quote:

DrJ, you told me the other day that women couldnt be treated like "princesses" and have equal rights. I mean, think about that statement. You dont think you exude sexism? 




I dont see how that statement exudes anything but the truth.  If you want to be treated like an equal that means being treated like an equal.  No opening doors, no paying for meals, and why don't YOU ask a guy out for a change instead of making him do all the legwork?  Have you looked up the definition of "chivalry" in the middle ages yet?  The reason women were given certain courtesies was because they had no legal rights!!!  You want chivalry, fine: say goodbye to voting, equal pay, and legal recourse. You can't have equality AND privilege.

Quote:

  You ( and many others on these boards) act like it is a ridiculous concept to treat women with respect.. to treat them like women. 




I treat women with the same respect I treat men.  And not an iota more.  Respect I will give you.  Reverence, I will not.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Registered: 09/26/03
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Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2021702 - 10/19/03 01:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Note beforehand that what I'm about to say is not all-inclusive. You can consider yourself excluded from anything that may insult you.
But really, women are, by and by large.. sadly.. idiots. I've met a few who I got along with really really fuckin well, but most of them I can't even talk to. Not that I get all flustered -- I'm talking about women i'm not interested in, who I'm talking to as just another person, so many I've met are unable to carry a simple conversation.. it's sad. Unless you're blatantly hitting on them every other sentence you don't matter. Like I said, not all I've known, but many.
And so so many women I have known have done their damnedest to get themselves into bad relationships, and then absolutely love being in them. They're treated badly, they'll tell you they're treated badly, 'But I love him..'. And meanwhile everyone who's ever treated them well? Whatever, didn't love them. I'll let this guy forbid me to talk to any of my male friends.. he's worth it, he's a real winner. Good person all-around. Now what the hell is with that? Idiocy.
not even gonna mention how outright manipulative most women are. I've yet to meet a guy that was outright manipulative. Persuasive, yes.. but not manipulative.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Sexism [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2022426 - 10/19/03 11:58 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

But really, women are, by and by large.. sadly.. idiots.




except of course, for the ladies here at the shroomery! A lot of people see this as a male dominated board, but i think the lack of females is directly related to the fact that there arent a whole lot of girls out there that are into intellectual things like psychedelics and internet discussion boards. Of all the real world women I meet, very few of them are as cool as the chicks on here. There reallyarent enough smart girls out there, and unfortuneatly the dumb ones set all the precedents.

Quote:

And so so many women I have known have done their damnedest to get themselves into bad relationships, and then absolutely love being in them. They're treated badly, they'll tell you they're treated badly, 'But I love him..'. And meanwhile everyone who's ever treated them well? Whatever, didn't love them. I'll let this guy forbid me to talk to any of my male friends.. he's worth it, he's a real winner. Good person all-around. Now what the hell is with that? Idiocy.




well, women tend to see dominance as an admirable trait. This goes back to pre-historic times, I'm sure. The male who talks loud, is possessive, and beats the shit out of other males is more likely to aid the female's survival. Females are biologically programmed to go after the dominant male monkey motherfucker. They may say they want a nice guy, a sensitive guy, and in their mind they probably do. But their bodies and hormones and the chemicals in their brains tell them to go after the big, burly asshole. Choosing the guy she wants over the guy her body tells her to want is a matter of willpower over instinct. And females arent reknowned for their willpower.




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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2022621 - 10/19/03 02:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)


Women chew nice guys up and spit them out when they meet a guy with a bigger dick and a faster car.


hehehe

I tend to have some misogynist feelings as well. Most of the women
I have met are lazy and selfish. I think it is because of our
culture. Women are coddled more than men and therefore are not held
responsible for a lot of their behavior. They get away with a
hell of a lot more than we do.

Some things I have noticed about most of the girls I have met:

If you are nice to them they will not appreciate you. If you treat
them like shit they will love and cling to you.

If you are in a relationship with one of them and you allow her any
type of freedom at all, she will cheat on you; it is inevitable.

They are completely ruled by their emotions. Unfortunately their
emotions are fickle and they get bored very very easily.

They are usually lazy. The only things they do aggressively are
try to get attention from guys and watch TV.

They are demanding and unreasonable. They will get annoyed/sad/
angry if you do not spend every second with them, and when you do
spend every second with them, they get sick of you and start
looking for another guy to fuck.

They are manipulative. They use their charms to get what they want
i.e. lots of attention, shiny things, money, and not having to
work.

They are self-righteous. They are incapable of examining themselves
objectively and perceiving that they might have acted inappropriately.

....I know exactly where you are coming from

I wish I was gay sometimes.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2022796 - 10/19/03 04:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Of course, you could disagree with science, but if you choose to do so, I would ask you to stop driving your car, turn off your a/c, and stop eating refrigerated food. "

It is a psychology book.  She confirms?  Bwahahahahaha. Science?  Bwahahahaha.  Enough said.

yes, and those of my friends. First hand information is often the most accurate.

Unless we twist it with our biases and "perceptions"

I should have also mentioned that I study psychology, and have done so for many years. I read a lot of research (experiments, studies, etc). I should say I have a few friends in long term relationships, but they always seem to be symbiotic, more of a mutual exchange than love.

More opinion, eh?

If I really like a girl, I try to press for longevity in relationships, but its a very taxing game, and even if I win, I still feel unloved.

Men seem to want to go after the wrong women for the wrong reasons.  They have been raised in a society where barbie dolls and kate moss are the norm, that is all they see.  I believe their dating choices reflect that desire to assimilate, instead of the desire to originate love.

I have been with all kinds of girls. No matter how different they were, a common thread ran through them. Straight edge or dope fiend, religious or atheist, rich or poor, most of the women I have met have cared only for themselves and didnt respect my feelings.

  What is the common denominator in this picture?  You.  They were women you picked.  Some men do it because they arent psychologically or emotionally ready to deal with commitment.  I have known quite a few male friends that have done this at periods in their life.  With the exact same words you are  using.  I find it pretty funny in light of this post, that one of them is getting married in less then two weeks to a truly amazing person.  He's 25.


you're right. I should have said "bitches are only for fucking... and wasting money on."

Yer a misogynist.  Period. I honestly think that any of the ladies that I hang out with would come to the same conclusion from your posts.  Again, I cant speak for anyone else.. but as women, we have learned how to pick up the signs.  :smile: Ive read your posts for quite awhile now.  It didnt take just that one comment for me to arrive at that conclusion.  It was just the easiest to cut and paste.

BTW, a bitch isnt a woman. A bitch is a bitch. If she proves to me she is a lady, I will treat her like one. Until then, she's just a bitch to me. I'm the same way with men too, btw. Dont mistake misanthropy for sexism.

It is not acceptable to refer to women with the name they use to label female dogs.  If you think women are dogs, that is cool for you.  But again, you will stay alone or in shitty relationships.  You say until she proves to me that she is a lady...You have never treated me like a lady.. I mean, Ive never proved myself to be slutty or whatnot.. But I speak my mind and I dont stand for shit.. I often conflict with your opinion, so I guess that cancels my lady status...so you obviously have some misogynistic tendencies, and this is from personal experience.  Not mistaking outside tendencies you may have.  Only the ones you have exerted on me.

I've been a better person. I've been sensitive and caring, moreso than you would probably guess. Didn't get me anything but heartbreak. The only reason women want men to be more sensitive is so they can use us and walk on us like doormats.

Hey, if when you get your emotions you are a whining sniviling doormat, Ill sure as hell walk over you and wipe my muddy feet in the process.  I need a man, with a spine, a brain and a heart.  If you get into relationships and try so hard to keep them, even at your peril then you deserve what you let happen.

Falling in love has never been a decision I have made. You need to learn a little more about male emotions. Maybe then you might realize why guys don't want to hang out with a girl they know is taken

Falling in love doesnt have to be a stupid decision, you definately have some control over the people in your lives and of your own emotions.  I think that when you are young, it doesnt feel like it.  But believe it or not, you do. 

As for the guys not hanging out with a girl they know is taken.  Nah, I do not understand that. So, I guess that means that females are only good for fucking.. right? 

Until moving to Texas, I had a group of about 15 guys that I hung around with atleast 4 nights a week.  I was usually the only female.  There were occasionally 2 other gurls that came and went.  They knew I was taken.  I was taken when I met them for the very first time but there is absolutely no problem with that.  They were just stoked to hang out with a female that gets high and doesnt have a constant stick up her ass.. or that doesnt act all ditzy and stupid when around males.  These guys are my best friends (besides gw- my soulmate :smile:), I talked to them about alot of shit.  They held car doors open and gave me the green rip always.. they were gentleman.  I begin to realize more and more that they are one of a kind and that Im tremendously lucky to have them in my life if "normal" guys dont want to hang around with women that are taken, if all they are after is hooking up.

I dont mean to be terribly offensive here.  But I will say this.  Ive grown up in Texas, went to college here.. and then got the fuck out.  Men here really seem to have a few screws loose.  I tell GW about some of the men that I knew or dated and he is flabbergasted.  I dunno what it is.. but it fascinates me, Im going to look at studies about it..  7 of the 8 people I kept in touch with from HS married someone nonsouthern.  The one that did marry a texas man is so unhappy it makes me want to cry.  College buddies, everyone got the hell out of Texas and never looked back-  2 couples from college got married, but all of the females I still keep in touch with that have gotten married married out of the south.  Except the twins, who married two best friends from oklahoma.


sorry, I'm not into religious prudes and sexual naivetie. I like having sex. I dont appreciate that women dont seem to respect the emotional bond it creates. There is a difference between "not being a slut" and being a chaste prude.
  If you want an emotional bond, why not try having sex with someone you have an emotional bond with?  Seems like a nobrainer to me

women make guys to all this work just to get with them. We have to initialize first contact. We have to pay for everything. We have to entertain her. By the time we get laid, there's been all this build up that has attatched us to the girl, but by that time, she's gotten everything she wanted from us. A few nice dinners, a little entertainment, and a fuck. She knows she can start the whole thing over again with one of a million guys that hit on her every day.

You think that all a woman wants is dinners and to be fucked by some guy who probably doesnt give her any pleasure to begin with?  And you say Im out of touch with the male psyche?  If you think that women have so little value for themselves that your scenario is true then ... no wonder.  I wont even go any farther on this one.


It was easy to do when I was younger. Women have robbed me of this ability by meeting every attempt at a loving committed relationship with scandalous, slutty behavior.

Boo fucking hoo.  Im sorry, but you deserve it then.  That is such a piss poor lazy excuse.  To put your whole emotional future in someone else's hands or actions.  Grow a spine.  Im so tired of spineless men.

Can you accept that? Can you believe that deep down I'm a nice guy that just wants to settle down and be in love with a girl who can give it back equally?

Yeah, I can.  But I think you are going about it the entirely wrong way and playing some sick and twisted blame game.  Again, Im sure alot of it is immaturity.

They put your hero Jesus on the cross because he was a nice guy. Nice guys finish last. Its basic human nature. Women chew nice guys up and spit them out when they meet a guy with a bigger dick and a faster car

Um, they put Jesus on a cross because he was the Son of God.  Have you read the Bible?  Obviously not if you are trying to use that to justify that whole bullocks about how nice guys finish last.

I spent most of my life dating shitty men, I let myself stay in situations that I shouldnt have.  I thought I could fix people.. if only I could love them enough... yadda yadda.  Then I met GW and he is just about one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.  He didnt have a fast car, unless you consider a Samauri a fast car..  He didnt have alot of money.  But he's a good man and I didnt walk all over him... I loved him and he treated me with respect .. there was no trying to get into my pants.  No expectations that built up from him buying me dinner or whatnot.. because sex wasnt his motive. He is a nice guy and I often wonder what in the hell I did to deserve him in my life.  See, that is the thing.  You seem to think you are owed something.


Men want girls that like them, and will appreciate them. Do you have any idea how it feels to be the one who bears the burden of the entire relationship? Just once, I would like a girl to buy ME a drink. Or start a conversation. I want a girl who cares about me as much as I care about her. I'm sick of being asked to take all of the initiative.

Boohoo again!  In a relationship there are two people.  They both bear the weight of the relationship.. I love how you use words like burden and cant understand that you project.. but anyway...

I've bought men drinks.  Ive been in many groups of ladies that sent drinks over to men.  Ive started many conversations.  Ive cared as much about other people and sometimes even more..  Initiative?  That could be a smile, a look... lingerie.. it could be a whole host of things.  Stop making yourself out to be this person who does everything and gets nothing in return.  Cant you see how if that is the case, you perpetuate it?  Some women are shitty, I have no doubt, but every woman isnt.



BTW, women want attention because they are inherently emotionally self-centered, like all human beings (men, too!). Look it up in your nearest psych book.
Why would I look it up?  It's commonsense that humans want attention due to emotions.

And heaven forbid I stand up for MY rights and feelings, because then I'm a "sexist pig" who "treats women like shit and bitches about how they are such bitches"

In the same token, if that is the way it is, women too are able to call a spade a spade.

I dont see how that statement exudes anything but the truth. If you want to be treated like an equal that means being treated like an equal. No opening doors, no paying for meals, and why don't YOU ask a guy out for a change instead of making him do all the legwork? Have you looked up the definition of "chivalry" in the middle ages yet? The reason women were given certain courtesies was because they had no legal rights!!! You want chivalry, fine: say goodbye to voting, equal pay, and legal recourse. You can't have equality AND privilege.

Oh, and you have advanced so far in intellect and humanity since the middle ages.  Something to be very proud of.  You dont seem to understand that rights are universal.  That doesnt make someone less black, less female, less anything.  It's not about wanting to be a man.. it's about wanting to have inalienable rights and still be a woman.  Just because you want rights as a human, it doesnt council out who we are.  That is ridiculous.  In an enlightened society all humans can have equal rights.  So, by your thinking. I guess blacks cant have equal rights either.

I treat women with the same respect I treat men. And not an iota more. Respect I will give you. Reverence, I will not.

Have fun being unattached.  Im sure you will be able to enjoy it for quite some time with your "opinions".


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2023153 - 10/19/03 06:41 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anyway, I am a firm believer that sexist mentality is caused by women, and the bullshit that they frequently pull.




Im going to see if i understand what you are saying... So you mean that... it is more of the fact that women choose to be vulnerable where they are, and then they decide to claim that they have been taken advantage of , or not given equal rights?

If you point is kind of like that, than i must agree with you, and here is why.

I think when this situation comes up with people who have an education and are fairly decent people, that the whole gender issue becomes rediculous and may be just a scape goat for a lacking in some area of their life.

Granted there are plenty of women in this world who are mis treated and can do virtually nothing about it (if they do, their husbands are reserved the right to kill them... stuff like that).

BUt on a social standpoint in america, with women who know more than enough about the rights they have, to pull the "sexist" card is rediculous. People do this all the time, whether it be because of their race, sexual preference, or their religuous beliefs, people always find a way to escape the truth and claim a "minority" than truely facing up to the bullshit and pain associated with the fact that they might be wrong about something.

Its easy for people to sit back and say that it is someone elses fault than taking responsibility. But i believe that in a lot of situations and most of and more than anything it is peoples own shitty nature that causes this turmoil. It is america! Half the population is over weight!
-----
I think this is where you are getting at am i right?
------

-----------



--------------------
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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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Re: Sexism [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2023289 - 10/19/03 07:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It is a psychology book. She confirms? Bwahahahahaha. Science? Bwahahahaha. Enough said.





please read the source before berating it.  And i made a mistake in calling it a psych book.  I had to read it for an evolutionary psych class in undergrad.  Its really an evolutionary biology book.  Its all about sex.  It is a highly acclaimed book.  The only reason I could think of you not agreeing with its logic is religious bias.

There is a biological conflit of interest between males and females when it comes to sex.  Women have a biological urge to sleep with many men to ensure their egg gets fertilized.  Men have a biological drive to ensure that only his sperm penetrate his lady's egg.  This is accepteded scientific fact and is completely logical.  Can you accept that?  Sorry if science doesnt jibe with your opinion.  Science doesnt have opinions, sweetheart.

Quote:

More opinion, eh?




Good psychological studies have no bias.  And my opinion comes from years of training and study.

Quote:

Men seem to want to go after the wrong women for the wrong reasons....  What is the common denominator in this picture? You. They were women you picked. Some men do it because they arent psychologically or emotionally ready to deal with commitment. 




This makes no sense in light of what I said.  I've already told you that I want a commitment.  Why would I choose girls that were specifically incapable of it?  Women are the limiting reagent in the equation that is a committed relationship. 

Dont think for a second that you are the first one to question my taste in women.  I have already examined this factor.  Which is why I have made an effort to date all kinds of women, from all walks of life.  I have dated women selected for me by others- sometimes the selector has been a woman herself.  A

dmit it.  YOU are biased.  You dont want to admit that my problems with women are caused by anyone but myself.  I have thought that I was the problem, too.  I have tried to bend every which way for women...  but I always end up broken.

Quote:

Yer a misogynist. 




Sure.  But not inherently.  Its something I picked up from women.  Seems like the more experience i have, the more cynical I get. 

Quote:

You say until she proves to me that she is a lady...You have never treated me like a lady.. I mean, Ive never proved myself to be slutty or whatnot.. But I speak my mind and I dont stand for shit.. I often conflict with your opinion, so I guess that cancels my lady status...




No you're not a slut (although I would call posting a picture of your legs while being engaged an act of bad judgement).  You also seem relatively intelligent.  But your demands of men are way too high for me to ever respect you.  Not to mention I have seen you spout more generalized insults and fallacious arguements than most of the men on this board.  Go read that DFW thread again.  Do you not realize how much you come off as a bitch?

Quote:

Hey, if when you get your emotions you are a whining sniviling doormat, Ill sure as hell walk over you and wipe my muddy feet in the process. I need a man, with a spine, a brain and a heart.





How sensitive of you.  I can see why they call ladies the "fairer sex".  And why is it that you want men to be sensitive to your feelings, yet we cant have feelings of our own?  You do realize that men have feelings, just like you, right?  We have the same desires, fears, and it hurts us just as much when someone steps on them.  Only spineless men would give in to your demands. 

Quote:

"normal" guys dont want to hang around with women that are taken, if all they are after is hooking up.




Do you know how difficult it is for a man to be "just friends" with a girl he is attracted to?  The only girl friends (and nothing more) that I have are girls I would never think of sleeping with.  Men don't want to hang out with women that are taken not because thry only want sex, but because they dont want to set themselves up for heartbreak by accidentally falling for a girl they cant have. 

A lot of girls that break up with me want to be "just friends" and I cant do it.  I cant be in love with a girl and just look the other way when she's fucking my friends.  Men dont fall in love lightly.  We tend to take the idea of love a lot more seriously than women do.

Quote:

Men here really seem to have a few screws loose. I tell GW about some of the men that I knew or dated and he is flabbergasted.




Another generalized insult.  And how come you can form an opinion of men from past experiences, but I cant do the same for women?

Quote:

If you want an emotional bond, why not try having sex with someone you have an emotional bond with? Seems like a nobrainer to me





I'm saying, sex CREATES an emotional bond, for men at least.  After I've slept with a girl I am more attached to her.  I care about her more.  Even little things she does, pointless hobbies she has intrigue me.  I think its a biological thing.  I would adapt by forcing myself to be less attached, but commitment is supposed to be what women want...  right?

Quote:

Boo fucking hoo. Im sorry, but you deserve it then. That is such a piss poor lazy excuse.... Grow a spine. Im so tired of spineless men.




And I'm tired of insensitive, selfish women who ask more than they give.

Quote:

To put your whole emotional future in someone else's hands or actions.




thats what a trusting relationship based on love is.  I have given many women my heart, and they have abused the privilege.  Are you saying that I should close myself off?  Never let women in?  What kind of relationships would I have, then?

Quote:

Yeah, I can. But I think you are going about it the entirely wrong way and playing some sick and twisted blame game. Again, Im sure alot of it is immaturity.




What do YOU think I should do, then.  (something tells me this will be good for a laugh)


Quote:

Um, they put Jesus on a cross because he was the Son of God. Have you read the Bible? Obviously not if you are trying to use that to justify that whole bullocks about how nice guys finish last.





Yes I have read the Bible.  And the Gnostic writings.  I have studied Christianity, Kabalah, Taoism, Buddhism, Hindu, Islam, and many occult teachings.  If you want to get a in a theological or philosophical debate, you could choose a partner that is more in your league.

Quote:

Stop making yourself out to be this person who does everything and gets nothing in return.




I'm not making myself out to be anything, only reporting fact.  I have been the nice, caring, sensitive guy that all women profess to want, and it hasnt gotten me anywhere.  Meanwhile, I see men who are complete assholes pick up women and maintain longterm relationships with them.  What am I supposed to think?  Should I keep on doing what i know doesnt work, or follow the lead of the guys who are successful?  (Not that I would ever want a relationship in which I had to be a domineer.  Women are not pets.  If I wanted a pet, I would get a new cat)

The rest of your arguements dont need me to berate them.  They do a nice job of berating themselves. Here's a link you might find helpful:  http://gncurtis.home.texas.net/mainpage.html

I'm getting sick of arguing this with you.  You seem to have your own misogyny going on.  Perhaps you could get some other females in here to give their perspectives on this?  I was wondering why no other females have tried to contest my points.  Perhaps they are too weak to defend their position :evil:


--------------------
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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Sexism [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2023291 - 10/19/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Im going to see if i understand what you are saying... So you mean that... it is more of the fact that women choose to be vulnerable where they are, and then they decide to claim that they have been taken advantage of , or not given equal rights?

Oh yeah, and its not any bit the fault of a man that says his problems witth women are based solely upon the women.

I think when this situation comes up with people who have an education and are fairly decent people, that the whole gender issue becomes rediculous and may be just a scape goat for a lacking in some area of their life.

Agreed, when we blame our problems on something else, never acknowledging our own lackings.. we make issues scape goats because we dont wish to deal with ourselves. This is not relegated to just one sex. It's a human trait.

Granted there are plenty of women in this world who are mis treated and can do virtually nothing about it (if they do, their husbands are reserved the right to kill them... stuff like that).

How many men are kept in shitty relationships with women by force.. how many men cannot escape? Just out of curiousity.

BUt on a social standpoint in america, with women who know more than enough about the rights they have, to pull the "sexist" card is rediculous.
So, let me make sure I have this right. Because women now have been granted more civil rights.. that automatically means that they cant be treated with sexism.. because they have more rights, sexism is just annuled?

People do this all the time, whether it be because of their race, sexual preference, or their religuous beliefs, people always find a way to escape the truth and claim a "minority" than truely facing up to the bullshit and pain associated with the fact that they might be wrong about something.
So, being a woman is wrong.. or being muslim or christian or gay.. those are all wrong and we should all face up to the personal pain of not being a hetrosexual white male?

Its easy for people to sit back and say that it is someone elses fault than taking responsibility. But i believe that in a lot of situations and most of and more than anything it is peoples own shitty nature that causes this turmoil.

Yeah it is, as evidenced by this thread. We choose our perceptions ultimately. It's just a shame to rule out a whole subset of people because you cant get past your own deficits, your own complicity.


--------------------


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2023302 - 10/19/03 07:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"When i say: "Women are sluts," this is not a stereotypical bias. This is something i have learned from personal experience. I wouldn't think that way if so many women hadn't fucked me over."

Generalizing on the basis of your own experience alone is stupidity.

"Women have called me a "player", because I sleep around and avoid emotional attachment. Whats funny is that I would like nothing more than a steady, committed relationship. I have yet to find a woman capable of this. Women are the real players. Men just do it to protect themselves. "

Maybe you just have shitty tastes. Most women, of course, say that it's the men who are the cheaters. Women surely cheat and sleep around for the same reasons men do.

Being a bigot does not necessarily mean learning a bias from others around you, often people leap to moronic conclusions based only on their experiences. If the only encounters you've had with blacks were when they robbed you, it would be likely that you might come to the conclusion that all blacks are criminals. This is just as stupid as the assumption you've made.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Sexism [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2023315 - 10/19/03 07:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Most of the women
I have met are lazy and selfish. I think it is because of our
culture. Women are coddled more than men and therefore are not held
responsible for a lot of their behavior. They get away with a
hell of a lot more than we do.




Exactly.  When boys are growing up, their dad tells them: "you aint shit, boy.  You gotta get out there and make yourself something, cuz aint no one gonna do it for you."  But that same Dad will tell his daughter something completly different: "You're a little princess.  you should be pampered by everyone, and men should be your slave."

Women grow up and are always trying to replace their father's role as a caregiver.  This is Fruedian, and although many of Freud's ideas have been discounted, he was right about some things.  For example, studies have confirmed that women tend to be physically attracted to men with similar genes to thir fathers'.

Quote:

They are self-righteous. They are incapable of examining themselves
objectively and perceiving that they might have acted inappropriately




Are you reading, PsiloKitten?  Are you learning?  Or are you closing yourself off to it?  These are REAL MEN, with REAL FEELINGS, pouring their hearts out in public.  You dont get this chance to learn very often.

Quote:

They are demanding and unreasonable. They will get annoyed/sad/
angry if you do not spend every second with them, and when you do
spend every second with them, they get sick of you and start
looking for another guy to fuck




:thumbup:

your whole post is pretty agreeable. 


--------------------
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Sexism [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2023341 - 10/19/03 07:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"Of course, you could disagree with science, but if you choose to do so, I would ask you to stop driving your car, turn off your a/c, and stop eating refrigerated food. "

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen posted in this forum, and fuck the "Be Nice" policy, but you're a moron, and you don't have the slightest idea what science is.

First of all, disagreeing with a theory does not mean you're disagreeing with science. The woman has a theory, with a scientific basis. If you were to do some more research, which you obviously didn't, you would find out that there are other theories out there, with just as much, or more solid scientific basis.

The common theory goes like this: Men want to spread their genetics. This is why they have an increased sex drive. Before civilization, it was not likely that a woman would live long enough to give birth to more than a single child. So she gets pregnant, and the man is free to impregnate more women. You can see this model in action with, say gorillas. Their groups usually consist of a single silverback male, and a harem of females, all of which he has sex with. Sure you can disagree with this, but then you'd have to kill your mother, castrate a goat, and set fire to your neighbour's car.

"Conversely, Males have an evolutionary incentive to protect their genetics, even at the cost of another male's. This is why men are possesive."

How does being posessive of a woman protect your genetics? Maybe when she's pregnant this makes sense...



There are lots of good women out there. You've had bad luck, so you assume they're all evil harpies. That's just dumb.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Sexism [Re: Phluck]
    #2023344 - 10/19/03 07:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Generalizing on the basis of your own experience alone is stupidity




you're right. But a lot of other men will back me up on what I have said. Personal experiences are just the most painful lessons that stick out in my mind. My origional post was flawed in that I did not list the other data that backs my opinion up.

Quote:

Maybe you just have shitty tastes.




then I guess all the men AND women who have set me up with girls have bad taste as well.


--------------------
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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Sexism [Re: Phluck]
    #2023372 - 10/19/03 08:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen posted in this forum, and fuck the "Be Nice" policy, but you're a moron, and you don't have the slightest idea what science is.




Disagreeing with my arguement = fine. Saying I have no idea what science is, well, thats just bad arguing.

Quote:

First of all, disagreeing with a theory does not mean you're disagreeing with science.




You're right. I was too harsh on that one. But I have yet to hear her come up with an alternate theory.

Quote:

If you were to do some more research, which you obviously didn't




dont make assumptions about what I have and havent studied. There is a lot of data that backs up what I am saying. Its more than just a theory, there is a great deal of truth to it.

Quote:

The common theory goes like this: Men want to spread their genetics. This is why they have an increased sex drive. Before civilization, it was not likely that a woman would live long enough to give birth to more than a single child. So she gets pregnant, and the man is free to impregnate more women. You can see this model in action with, say gorillas. Their groups usually consist of a single silverback male, and a harem of females, all of which he has sex with. Sure you can disagree with this, but then you'd have to kill your mother, castrate a goat, and set fire to your neighbour's car.




I bet that gorilla is going to be possesive over the females he sleeps with. He wont let another male come near them. He doesnt want his women having their babies.

Quote:

How does being posessive of a woman protect your genetics? Maybe when she's pregnant this makes sense...




Did you know that in some species, the male has a psuedo-phallus, the purpose of which is to scrape out the other males' sperm from the vagina before intercourse? Males dont want other males fertilizing their partners. Those females are for bearing THEIR genetics, not another males'


--------------------
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