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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20112317 -

I imagine if most people understood the Libertarian Party than many more would support it. Most people think that libertarians are anarchists, and we are not at all. I think government needs to be minimized as much as possible, but I also understand the need for a police department, fire department, etc.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20112399 -

BlackWidow said:
I imagine if most people understood the Libertarian Party than many more would support it.


Ok, how about the next freedom I mentioned:  freedom to discriminate.

If I'm on the Board of Directors for Disneyland and we decided we could actually attract more business if we made the park open to whites only, would you have a problem with that?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20113079 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BlackWidow said:
I imagine if most people understood the Libertarian Party than many more would support it.


Ok, how about the next freedom I mentioned:  freedom to discriminate.

If I'm on the Board of Directors for Disneyland and we decided we could actually attract more business if we made the park open to whites only, would you have a problem with that?


Me personally, yes, I would likely protest and boycott the parks along with millions of other people. It would be incredibly stupid to do this as a business.

But should we force Disney to not discriminate? No.

Here's why. Say you own, I don't know, let's say a small restaurant. A group of neo-nazis walks into your restaurant. This makes you and your customers very uncomfortable. Shouldn't you have the right to discriminate against neo-nazis and have the ability to kick them out?

With that said, anything government funded should have no ability to discriminate whatsoever. This should only apply to private business.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20113318 -

BlackWidow said:
should we force Disney to not discriminate? No.


If I'm a black kid dreaming of visiting Disneyland, would I have a claim for emotional damages in a libertarian society?  Or it is pretty much "tough shit", sucks to black in this system?

BlackWidow said:
Here's why. Say you own, I don't know, let's say a small restaurant. A group of neo-nazis walks into your restaurant. This makes you and your customers very uncomfortable. Shouldn't you have the right to discriminate against neo-nazis and have the ability to kick them out?


This is your justification for discrimination against minorities?  :jawdrop:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #20113564 -

clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.


Food should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that food is some kind of privilege.

Clothing should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that clothing is some kind of privilege.

Housing should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that housing is some kind of privilege.


Phred


--------------------

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Phred]
    #20113639 -

Phred said:
clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.


Food should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that food is some kind of privilege.

Clothing should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that clothing is some kind of privilege.

Housing should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that housing is some kind of privilege.


Phred


At a level necessary to live, I agree.


--------------------
Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20113680 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BlackWidow said:
should we force Disney to not discriminate? No.


If I'm a black kid dreaming of visiting Disneyland, would I have a claim for emotional damages in a libertarian society?  Or it is pretty much "tough shit", sucks to black in this system?

BlackWidow said:
Here's why. Say you own, I don't know, let's say a small restaurant. A group of neo-nazis walks into your restaurant. This makes you and your customers very uncomfortable. Shouldn't you have the right to discriminate against neo-nazis and have the ability to kick them out?


This is your justification for discrimination against minorities?  :jawdrop:


I never said we should discriminate against minorities, just that we shouldn't make laws forcing people to allow every group on their property.

The issue is complex. I think if people want to discriminate they should very well have the right to. That doesn't mean that we aren't going write news articles, protest, boycott, etc. If you think discrimination would happen on a wide scale if we repealed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, you're being silly. I recommend watching a few episodes of What Would You Do. In one episode, the owner kicks an Arabian women out because of her race and the other customers take action. One of my favorite episodes of that show.

With that said, if I were a politician, I would never make an  effort to repeal such law as I don't think we would see a difference either way. I'm sure we can all agree that discrimination still happens today and that we as humans are moving, albeit slowly, towards acceptance. I think we need make more changes socially as a society, then making more laws.

Like I said though, the issue is complex and I would like to hear your side.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20113820 -

History shows that change doesn't happen on its own.  Even as recently as the '60s, Funtown was off limits to colored people.



I do think change would happen on a wide scale if we repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  There will be a lot of companies that hire only white people, and there will be a lot of restaurants that only serve white people.

We may think we're not racist anymore, but I find the most racist people to be those that start their sentences with "I'm not a racist, but..."  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #20113910 -

clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.

Edit: I didn't see the second page before posting this.



Theonly wsy health care would be free is if doctors work for free.  Do you think they ever will?


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #20113924 -

clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.

Edit: I didn't see the second page before posting this.


Nothing is free in fact you just want a higher tax burden to get this "free" healthcare.


--------------------

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20113958 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BlackWidow said:
I imagine if most people understood the Libertarian Party than many more would support it.


Ok, how about the next freedom I mentioned:  freedom to discriminate.

If I'm on the Board of Directors for Disneyland and we decided we could actually attract more business if we made the park open to whites only, would you have a problem with that?


In principle I have no problem.  Its private property and they should be free to do as they wish.

however, I would personally not patronize their business because I think that kind of discrimination is wrong and I would be uncomfortable in a "whites only" place.

I certainly would not try to use force on someone, through government or otherwise to force my personal preferences on others.

that's like calling up a bunch of thugs to come with you to a friends house who only likes to play rap music in his house to physically force him to play the music you like.  Not cool.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Shins]
    #20114067 -

Shins said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BlackWidow said:
I imagine if most people understood the Libertarian Party than many more would support it.


Ok, how about the next freedom I mentioned:  freedom to discriminate.

If I'm on the Board of Directors for Disneyland and we decided we could actually attract more business if we made the park open to whites only, would you have a problem with that?


In principle I have no problem.  Its private property and they should be free to do as they wish.

however, I would personally not patronize their business because I think that kind of discrimination is wrong and I would be uncomfortable in a "whites only" place.

I certainly would not try to use force on someone, through government or otherwise to force my personal preferences on others.

that's like calling up a bunch of thugs to come with you to a friends house who only likes to play rap music in his house to physically force him to play the music you like.  Not cool.


Good point.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20114360 -

BlackWidow said:
Shins said:
I certainly would not try to use force on someone, through government or otherwise to force my personal preferences on others.

that's like calling up a bunch of thugs to come with you to a friends house who only likes to play rap music in his house to physically force him to play the music you like.  Not cool.


Good point.


That example is like forcing Disneyland to install rides that don't fit the Disney theme.  That's not what we're talking about at all.

Black people will be discriminated against as long as the law allows it.  Sure, we can all say we don't like it, but when our kids ask us to take them to the white amusement park in town, we'll probably just do it because it would cost too much to take them to the integrated park 500 miles away.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Gilgamesh18] * 1
    #20114465 -

Gilgamesh18 said:
clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.

Edit: I didn't see the second page before posting this.


Nothing is free in fact you just want a higher tax burden to get this "free" healthcare.


A higher tax burden for those who can afford it.


--------------------
Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20114791 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BlackWidow said:
Shins said:
I certainly would not try to use force on someone, through government or otherwise to force my personal preferences on others.

that's like calling up a bunch of thugs to come with you to a friends house who only likes to play rap music in his house to physically force him to play the music you like.  Not cool.


Good point.


That example is like forcing Disneyland to install rides that don't fit the Disney theme.  That's not what we're talking about at all.

Black people will be discriminated against as long as the law allows it.  Sure, we can all say we don't like it, but when our kids ask us to take them to the white amusement park in town, we'll probably just do it because it would cost too much to take them to the integrated park 500 miles away.


Not sure what kind of person you are but I would never support a racist company.

You will also never see me eat at Chick-fil-a due to their vehement opposition to gays.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Shins]
    #20114937 -

Shins said:
clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.

Edit: I didn't see the second page before posting this.



Theonly wsy health care would be free is if doctors work for free.  Do you think they ever will?


I didn't mean literally free, just provided by the government. I only said free in response to whoever sarcastically said that we should vote for whoever is offering the most free stuff.


--------------------
Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20115223 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BlackWidow said:
Shins said:
I certainly would not try to use force on someone, through government or otherwise to force my personal preferences on others.

that's like calling up a bunch of thugs to come with you to a friends house who only likes to play rap music in his house to physically force him to play the music you like.  Not cool.


Good point.


That example is like forcing Disneyland to install rides that don't fit the Disney theme.  That's not what we're talking about at all.

Black people will be discriminated against as long as the law allows it.  Sure, we can all say we don't like it, but when our kids ask us to take them to the white amusement park in town, we'll probably just do it because it would cost too much to take them to the integrated park 500 miles away.



Why does it concern you so much what people do with their own property?  Do I tell you how to drive your car or force you to give rides to people?  Do I force you to install apps on your computer?  Do I tell you what plants to grow in your yard?

why are you so obsessed with controlling peoples private lives?

why can't you just mind your own business?  If you don't like that disneyland won't admit black people, don't go there.  You do not have a right to demand use of anothers private property.  GET IT?!  The same way I do not have a right to ride in your car or sleep over at your house if you disallow it.  Why is it so hard for you to understand?  It doesn't matter if I'm black either.  Your car and your house should, by rights, be yours to do with as you wish.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #20115247 -

clock_of_omens said:
Shins said:
clock_of_omens said:
Health care should be free. I don't see how any decent person would think that health care is some kind of privilege.

Edit: I didn't see the second page before posting this.



Theonly wsy health care would be free is if doctors work for free.  Do you think they ever will?


I didn't mean literally free, just provided by the government. I only said free in response to whoever sarcastically said that we should vote for whoever is offering the most free stuff.


The government DOES NOT provide ANYTHING.  all the money it has it steals and extorts from taxpayers and the people.  It is insulting and patronizing to taxpayers like me to say things like "its free" and "the government provides it."  I am the one who provides it and other tax slaves like me being violently extorted by the state, at least give us credit where credit is due if you insist on hiring the government to violently extort and steal money from me to pay for other people's healthcare.

NOTHING IS FREE!

The government is not some magical never ending provider of money.  All the "free" government things come at aheavy cost!  A cost EVEN MORE expensive than if the government was not involved.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Shins]
    #20115722 -

Shins said:
Why does it concern you so much what people do with their own property?


I really don't care what you do with your personal property.  What I care about is you telling someone's little girl she's not welcome in your amusement park because of her skin color.

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you don't like that disneyland won't admit black people, don't go there.


How does that help little black girls?

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You do not have a right to demand use of anothers private property.  GET IT?!  Why is it so hard for you to understand?


Actually, I do have that right per the Civil Rights Act.  Apparently, you don't get it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Florida Libertarian US House Candidate Polling at 31℅ [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20115975 -

Quote:
How does that help little black girls?


A non-racist amusement park opens, racist one closes due to boycotts. :shrug:

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