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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #17]
    #19582074 -

A good word you can interchange with judgement in scripture is consequense.  If you actually take the time to break down the word, its not God punishing you, it's a warning of the consequense of your actions.  If I tell you not to touch a red element on a stove lest ye be burned, its not me saying if you touch that I'll burn you, it's a warning of consequence.  I think the consequences of the basic ten commandments is obvious.  You don't have to be a Christian to respect what is being said to be avoided in the 10 commandments, it's basic respect for others.

Yet we chase our pleasures, submit to wrath, temptations etc.  And that's the point at which consequenses bite us in the ass.  For what it's worth.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19582090 -

Which is why the world is as fucked as it is.  Had we all agreed to the basic 10 this world would be a very different place, Christian or not.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19582264 -

Anonymous #18 said:
A good word you can interchange with judgement in scripture is consequense.  If you actually take the time to break down the word, its not God punishing you, it's a warning of the consequense of your actions.  If I tell you not to touch a red element on a stove lest ye be burned, its not me saying if you touch that I'll burn you, it's a warning of consequence.  I think the consequences of the basic ten commandments is obvious.  You don't have to be a Christian to respect what is being said to be avoided in the 10 commandments, it's basic respect for others.


That's not true at all. Let's go through them one by one:

Quote:
1: I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.


You definitely have to be of the judeo christian persuasion to respect this one.

Quote:
2: You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.


I own many carved images of many different things. I don't bow down or serve them, but neither do I bow down or serve your jealous god who spites people for the actions of their fathers and breaks nearly every one of these commandments in the same book that he bestows these laws. You definitely have to be of the judeo christian persuasion to respect this one.

Quote:
3: You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.


Jesus Christ, what a bunch of goddamn nonsense. Definitely have to be of the judeo christian persuasion to respect this one.

Quote:
4: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


I have worked on many Sundays and never had a problem. Definitely have to be of the judeo christian persuasion to respect this one.

There you go, now we're down to 6 commandments, none of which are exceptional enough to warrant using the ten commandments as a moral compass for anyone other than a judeo christian koolaid drinker.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19582315 -

Anonymous #18 said:
Which is why the world is as fucked as it is.  Had we all agreed to the basic 10 this world would be a very different place, Christian or not.


And had we agreed to the rest of the laws passed down in the Old Testament, I could go rape a hot seventeen year and give her dad 50 oz of silver to force her to marry me. I could then abuse her for the rest of her life and she couldn't divorce me or speak out against the abuse. I could own slaves and beat them as hard as I wanted as long as they didn't die that same day from the beating. Next day, no problem. I could help stone peoples' children to death for coloring their hair or swearing at their parents. Despite the commandment "thou shall not murder", I could study the long list of exceptions given and be just as psychopathically murderous as your god.

It would be nice though if people didn't steal, commit adultery, murder others, or get jealous, but how would that happen in a world where we are made in the image of a jealous, sadistic tyrant?

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19582386 -

I think you missed the point of my post.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19582439 -

Anonymous #18 said:
I think you missed the point of my post.


No I got it completely, you think the 10 commandments are a good moral basis to live by regardless of your beliefs. They are not, nearly half of them are worthless to non christians and the "consequences" are by no means self fulfilling or certain. There are many moral codes that are far better than the 10 commandments, and basically any of them are better than the rest of the laws set forth in the Bible.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19582919 -

OP, why do you hate Christians specifically? What got you to start this thread?

I'm not a Christian myself, just wondering why you'd hate on them more than say, Muslims.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #13]
    #19583671 -

@ number 2.  Let me clarify, in saying 10, I should have wittled it down to the ones that would pertain to non Christians.  I assumed that would have been taken into account when I said, "whether you're a Christian, or not.  I should have been clearer. So..

They go like this :
1: You shall have no gods before me.
2: Create no images.
3: Do not misuse my name.
4: Obey the sabbath.
5: Honor thy mother and father
6: You shall not commit murder.
7: You shall not commit adultry.
8: You shall not steal.
9: You shall not bear false testimony.
10: You shall not covet.

Assuming you're not Christian, that takes 1-4 off the list.  5 could go either way, but it's a good practice to get into, situations vary, we'll not get into that.

Which leaves us with, murder, adultry, theft, false testimony, and coveting.  How in any walk of life is this not basic respect?  Which theologies are you speaking of that would not only touch on that but be better?  And lastly, Im trying to think of daily situations where legitimate problems would arise if a person would stick to these basic principals, Christian or not.  It seems all major clashes can be avoided if a person sticks to these simple basic standards.  And the point I was making, is that if everybody could reign themselves in enough to stick to these basic principals, yes, this world would be a much better place.  For the better.

Add to that, when the diciples asked Jesus which commandment was the most important and Jesus replied something to the effect " I tell you this, anyone who has broken the least of my laws, is guilty of breaking the whole of the law.  But love the Lord with all your heart (doesnt apply to non christians in this example) and treat your neighbor as you would want to be treated"

How can you not 1, respect that, 2, not only touch upon that but raise it to a higher standard/level, and 3, create any kind of chaos if you obey those simple fundamentals?  Your old testimony examples are obsolete.  That was my point.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19584614 -

Well since you said the basic 10, I'll give you a pass on the fact that many of the remaining six are stripped of the context in which the jews understood them (thou shall not murder only means no premeditated murder of other jews unless permitted by law, thou shall not steal actually referred to stealing/abducting jewish people, not goods, etc).

Christians like hammering this idea into society that the 10 commandments are these wonderful laws that transcend religion but they are not, as you can see we've whittled 10 down to 5 or 6. I agree with you that at least #6-10 are basic respect. So basic though, that people need not read the 10 commandments to understand them. I would go further to say that not one murderer, thief, abductor, adulterer, or perjurer would have changed his or her ways if only they had read the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments, much like the rest of juedo christian mythology, were borrowed from the Egyptians whose texts (Book of the Dead) were not nearly as watered down given that they were the source material. Since we also know that the Old Testament was not inked down until sometime between 1000-600BC, the Egyptians and Sumerians along with the Indians and Chinese already had more comprehensive civil laws in place.

We could have a whole separate debate about whether or not the rest of the OT laws are obsolete given Jesus' own words about them, but suffice it to say that the laws of the Bible, including the 10 commandments, are specifically religious laws meant for specifically jewish people, and have no place in government buildings or secular societies.

The Golden Rule (do unto others...) is a much better moral code if you need something simple and easy to remember IMO, as it does not come with caveats or instructions favoring a particular deity, and can be found in virtually every religion and philosophy across the spectrum. It was by no means an invention of Jesus. Parading the 10 commandments as the ultimate moral code is an attempt, whether conscious or not, to press your religion on everyone else. If you were to say "the latter half of the 10 commandments" I could possibly agree with you if I was ignorant of the context and caveats implied by the original hebrew text.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #13]
    #19584862 -

Anonymous #13 said:
OP, why do you hate Christians specifically? What got you to start this thread?

I'm not a Christian myself, just wondering why you'd hate on them more than say, Muslims.


There is no need to bring muslims into the discussion.  That kind of diversion tactic is just that - a diversion tactic.

Why is it that when a religion gets criticized somebody feels the need to retort by comparing to another religion?  Its because of political correctness.

Christians are crappy in their own right.  It makes no difference at all what mulsims do.  What muslims do does not excuse christians (or vise versa).

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19586340 -

Anonymous #2 said:
Well since you said the basic 10, I'll give you a pass on the fact that many of the remaining six are stripped of the context in which the jews understood them (thou shall not murder only means no premeditated murder of other jews unless permitted by law, thou shall not steal actually referred to stealing/abducting jewish people, not goods, etc).

Christians like hammering this idea into society that the 10 commandments are these wonderful laws that transcend religion but they are not, as you can see we've whittled 10 down to 5 or 6. I agree with you that at least #6-10 are basic respect. So basic though, that people need not read the 10 commandments to understand them. I would go further to say that not one murderer, thief, abductor, adulterer, or perjurer would have changed his or her ways if only they had read the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments, much like the rest of juedo christian mythology, were borrowed from the Egyptians whose texts (Book of the Dead) were not nearly as watered down given that they were the source material. Since we also know that the Old Testament was not inked down until sometime between 1000-600BC, the Egyptians and Sumerians along with the Indians and Chinese already had more comprehensive civil laws in place.

We could have a whole separate debate about whether or not the rest of the OT laws are obsolete given Jesus' own words about them, but suffice it to say that the laws of the Bible, including the 10 commandments, are specifically religious laws meant for specifically jewish people, and have no place in government buildings or secular societies.

The Golden Rule (do unto others...) is a much better moral code if you need something simple and easy to remember IMO, as it does not come with caveats or instructions favoring a particular deity, and can be found in virtually every religion and philosophy across the spectrum. It was by no means an invention of Jesus. Parading the 10 commandments as the ultimate moral code is an attempt, whether conscious or not, to press your religion on everyone else. If you were to say "the latter half of the 10 commandments" I could possibly agree with you if I was ignorant of the context and caveats implied by the original hebrew text.


Yea thats fascinating..  show me how your actions towards me dont conflict with peace if you dont obey these...and show me how when I commit these directly towards you we dont end in death....  you sound angry...  admit it...  and which theology were you speaking of that touches on these principles, and then rises above them?

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19586358 -

Let me guess, you're "pro-choice"?

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19586463 -

You can try to backpeddle all you want, you have claimed that the 10 commandments transcend Christianity, but I have clearly shown you that at least 4/10 are worthless to non christians. Now we're discussing the 6 commandments, a topic I have much less interest in, or problems with.

Anonymous #18 said:
Let me guess, you're "pro-choice"?


Why even ask, why not just start attacking the strawman preemptively, as your kind are so fond of doing? You already tried the ad hominem by asking if I was angry, a classic theist ploy. Of course the only reason to not believe in god is because you're angry at your parents/priest/spouse, right?

Do you think this is an agreeable moral code for modern society?:

1. You shall have no gods.
2. You shall not paint, draw, sculpt or worship any image of a god or it's iconography.
3. You shall not use the word "god".
4. You shall not work on Mondays.
5: You shall listen to your parents.
6: You shall not murder white Americans who don't deserve it.
7: You shall not commit adultery.
8: You shall not abduct or enslave white Americans.
9: You shall not bear false testimony against another white American.
10: You shall not covet your white American neighbor's wife or possessions.

Edited by Anonymous (02/18/14 06:13 PM)

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19586557 -

Fuck Jesus. ..Hail Satan!

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #20]
    #19586606 -

Fuck Satan, Hail Crom!


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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19586995 -

Anonymous #2 said:
You can try to backpeddle all you want, you have claimed that the 10 commandments transcend Christianity, but I have clearly shown you that at least 4/10 are worthless to non christians. Now we're discussing the 6 commandments, a topic I have much less interest in, or problems with.

Anonymous #18 said:
Let me guess, you're "pro-choice"?


Why even ask, why not just start attacking the strawman preemptively, as your kind are so fond of doing? You already tried the ad hominem by asking if I was angry, a classic theist ploy. Of course the only reason to not believe in god is because you're angry at your parents/priest/spouse, right?

Do you think this is an agreeable moral code for modern society?:

1. You shall have no gods.
2. You shall not paint, draw, sculpt or worship any image of a god or it's iconography.
3. You shall not use the word "god".
4. You shall not work on Mondays.
5: You shall listen to your parents.
6: You shall not murder white Americans who don't deserve it.
7: You shall not commit adultery.
8: You shall not abduct or enslave white Americans.
9: You shall not bear false testimony against another white American.
10: You shall not covet your white American neighbor's wife or possessions.


You're a dumbass.  I hope you dont have or influence kids.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #18]
    #19587214 -

Anonymous #18 said:
Anonymous #2 said:
You can try to backpeddle all you want, you have claimed that the 10 commandments transcend Christianity, but I have clearly shown you that at least 4/10 are worthless to non christians. Now we're discussing the 6 commandments, a topic I have much less interest in, or problems with.

Anonymous #18 said:
Let me guess, you're "pro-choice"?


Why even ask, why not just start attacking the strawman preemptively, as your kind are so fond of doing? You already tried the ad hominem by asking if I was angry, a classic theist ploy. Of course the only reason to not believe in god is because you're angry at your parents/priest/spouse, right?

Do you think this is an agreeable moral code for modern society?:

1. You shall have no gods.
2. You shall not paint, draw, sculpt or worship any image of a god or it's iconography.
3. You shall not use the word "god".
4. You shall not work on Mondays.
5: You shall listen to your parents.
6: You shall not murder white Americans who don't deserve it.
7: You shall not commit adultery.
8: You shall not abduct or enslave white Americans.
9: You shall not bear false testimony against another white American.
10: You shall not covet your white American neighbor's wife or possessions.


You're a dumbass.  I hope you dont have or influence kids.


:smirk:

Oh, the satisfaction. I love you.

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Re: Christians [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19587253 -

I love you too.  :hug:

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