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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1921109 -

And even if they did, that would make it jewish owned land in palestine.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Enlil]
    #1921300 -

Read slowly. Palestine was not a country to begin with. It was named Palestine by the Romans that occupied it. Later the Turks controlled it. They lost it in the WW1, and it was split up. 4/5ths were turned into Transjordan, and the remaining 1/5 was to be split up between the Jews and Arabs. This has been the case since WW1, and the Arabs have refused to let it happen ever since. The land that you call Palestinian was sold to the Jews. The fact that they bought the land, made it habitable, develope an infrastructure including health care facilities, schools, and a media all show that it is their land. The majority of the Israelis have no problem with sharing the land, as they didn't 80 years ago. The Arabs on the other hand do have a problem with it.

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: shakta]
    #1923851 -

Utter nonsense.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1924507 -

Disprove it then smartass.

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: shakta]
    #1924667 -

Auto-Summary
A group of Jewish-Americans of conscience is commemorating Al-Nakba, or the Palestinian Catastrophe, which occurred in 1948 when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forcibly displaced from their homes to make way for the establishment of the State of Israel. These individuals are calling for solidarity with the Palestinian people and advocating for their right to self-determination, an end to Israeli occupation, and the dismantlement of settlements. They argue that Israel's founding was built on the destruction of Palestinian society, with 418 villages razed and Palestinians living as second-class citizens in their own country. Today, millions of Palestinian refugees and their descendants continue to suffer in exile, denied the right to return to their homes. The group is also criticizing the US for failing to enforce international law and for providing military aid to Israel, which they argue is used to enforce unjust policies. They are calling on the US to cut off aid to Israel and support an international peacekeeping force to protect Palestinian lives and property.

So where do those 750,000 palestinians fleeing in terror back in 1948 fit into this cute belief system you have? Or do you just refuse to accept they ever existed?

Here's how some jews see the history of Palestine themselves:

The establishment of the State of Israel on May 15, 1948 inflicted an historic injustice upon the Palestinian people. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were driven from their homes into exile. A whole society and way of life were destroyed. To Palestinians, this is known as Al-Nakba, The Catastrophe, whose tragic consequences still reverberate today and fuel Palestinian resistance to ongoing Israeli occupation and dispossession.

We, as Jewish-Americans of conscience, are here to commemorate Al-Nakba and to demonstrate solidarity with the people of Palestine. We join in their demand for basic rights and call on the United States to bring its policy on Palestine into accord with UN resolutions, international law, and the global consensus: self-determination for Palestinians; an end to the Israeli occupation and the dismantlement of settlements; a sovereign, and territorially and economically viable Palestinian state with a shared Jerusalem as the capital of both Palestine and Israel, and Israeli recognition of the right of refugees to return to their homes.

1948

--Palestinians were driven from their homes at gunpoint, by acts of terrorism and massacre, and by the threat of war and further atrocities. Some 750,000 men, women, and children became exiles living in refugee camps in neighboring Arab countries. Under UN resolutions and international law, they have, and always have had, the right to return to their homes. Israel has refused to acknowledge this right and the United States has failed to enforce it.

--The State of Israel was founded on the destruction of Palestinian society. Israel razed 418 Palestinian villages, expropriated land, and built Israeli towns on the ruins. Palestinians who remained in Israel lived under military occupation until 1966 and today continue to live as second-class citizens in their own country, without full and equal rights in regard to employment, housing, health care or the purchase of land.

Today

--Refugees: The 1948 refugees and their descendants now number several million. A great many of them live in acute misery in camps in Lebanon and other neighboring countries. They have never been allowed to return, never been compensated for the tremendous loss of property, livelihood, and their entire homeland. There can be no peace until Israel acknowledges their right to return their homes.

--Occupation: The West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem have been under Israeli military occupation since 1967. Israel has annexed Palestinian territory, expropriated Palestinian land, demolished homes, destroyed olive groves, undermined the Palestinian economy, and built illegal fortified settlements inhabited by nearly 400,000 settlers, many of whom are armed and hostile extremists. All of this has been done in violation of the Geneva Conventions and international law.

--Repression: Palestinian resistance and defiance of the occupation has been met with a policy of violent repression. Israel has fired live ammunition into crowds of unarmed demonstrators, employed military tactics against a civilian population, and responded to guerilla attacks in an indiscriminate and disproportionate fashion with helicopter gunships, artillery shells, and rockets. They have brutalized and tortured political prisoners and openly acknowledge assassinating Palestinian leaders.

Justice and Peace:

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) made a historic compromise in 1988, when it formally recognized the State of Israel, and in the Oslo Agreement, where it relinquished any territorial claim to 78% of the land of historic Palestine, and accepted a Palestinian state in the remaining 22%. Yet Israel has refused to accept this compromise and has demanded concession after concession from the PLO in an attempt to whittle down the viability and practicality of a two-state solution. Israel has repeatedly refused to abide by international law or accept the basic minimum demands of justice that a two-state solution to the conflict necessitates: an end to the occupation and the settlements, the right of refugees to return, and an independent and sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with a shared Jerusalem as the capital of both Israel and Palestine. This would be the basis for a genuine peace.

U.S. Policy

The United States has the power to pressure Israel to rectify this injustice, but has refused to exercise it. Even worse, U.S. tax dollars and military equipment are used to enforce unjust Israeli policies that are inimical to the establishment of a just and lasting peace between Israel and Palestine. At the same time, the United States claims to be an even-handed and objective broker in peace negotiations, all the while backing Israel negotiating positions.

Instead of unflinchingly accepting unjust Israeli policies and negotiating positions, the United States should use its close relationship and leverage with Israel to persuade it to accept the conditions for a just peace. To do so, the United States should cut off the $3 billion in annual taxpayer-funded aid to Israel and immediately end all delivery of Apache helicopters and other armaments which are being used against civilians in violation of U.S. Arms Export Control Act of 1976 and the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961. Furthermore, the United States should support the creation of an international peacekeeping force under the auspices of the UN to protect Palestinian lives and property.


http://www.jppi.org/statement_53rdnakba.html


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1924708 -

That hasn't disporved his case in the slightest...


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1924713 -

What case is that?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1924724 -

Chomsky is a Jew and that doesn't mean he is correct either. I am not saying the Israelis have never done any wrong. I continue to try to point out that both sides have done wrong, and that there is a huge difference between the two. The best example has to be how the Israelis reacted after the slaughters in Lebanon, and how the Palestinians react every time a Jew is killed.

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: shakta]
    #1924731 -

Strange, you seem perfectly happy to judge every palestinian by the utterances of the most extremist palestinian you can find. Yet here you seem to be saying "those jews don't count" because they talk peace.




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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1924738 -

Quote:
Disprove it then smartass.



*Points*


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1924897 -

Alex123 said:
Strange, you seem perfectly happy to judge every palestinian by the utterances of the most extremist palestinian you can find. Yet here you seem to be saying "those jews don't count" because they talk peace.



I am not judging every Palestinian I can find at all. I don't think they all want to kill every Jew. A lot of them do though. Once again I am just pointing out the difference between the two sides in general. After the slaughters in Lebanon, the Israelis turned out to protest their own government's wrongdoing.

The Palestinians on the other hand dance in the streets when something bad happens to the Israelis or America. Arafat's uncle is not just some extremist, he was supported by the people, as is Arafat. He is a hero to the people. You seem to think that the overwhelming majority of the people don't like him. The Arabs loved this guy. The Egyptians actually gave him a safe harbor from the rest of the world after WW2, even after he was convicted of war crimes.

The greater picture here is the similarities between Arafat and his uncle. They both use terrorism to get their way. The rest of the world sees them as difficult to deal with, so they try to give them what they want whether it is fair or not. Both of these guys have rejected two state solutions to the problem. Both of them don't want the Israelis to have any land at all.

You continue to ignore the rest of the points I have brought up. Comparing the Palestinians love for this guy, and a minute minorities love for Hitler in America is completely assinine. Polls of Palestinians have shown their support for groups like Hamas. I don't think it is a stretch to say the majority of Palestinians are rejectionists just like their leader. If not, why do they continue to support him, while the rest of the non-Arab world knows he is a roadblock to peace in the region.

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: shakta]
    #1924975 -

The Palestinians on the other hand dance in the streets when something bad happens to the Israelis or America

You're off again shak. The vast majority of Palestinians don't go out dancing in the streets when someone dies for heavens sake. Get real.

They both use terrorism to get their way

Well don't forget the humiliating compromise "peace agreement" Arafat agreed to described in great detail by the jews in the article above.

I don't think it is a stretch to say the majority of Palestinians are rejectionists just like their leader.

Once again, reality doesn't fit. Read the description of the peace agreement Arafat agreed to above. No-one with even the slightest objectivity could possibly call that rejectionist. In fact here it is again:

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) made a historic compromise in 1988, when it formally recognized the State of Israel, and in the Oslo Agreement, where it relinquished any territorial claim to 78% of the land of historic Palestine, and accepted a Palestinian state in the remaining 22%. Yet Israel has refused to accept this compromise and has demanded concession after concession from the PLO in an attempt to whittle down the viability and practicality of a two-state solution. Israel has repeatedly refused to abide by international law or accept the basic minimum demands of justice that a two-state solution to the conflict necessitates: an end to the occupation and the settlements, the right of refugees to return, and an independent and sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with a shared Jerusalem as the capital of both Israel and Palestine. This would be the basis for a genuine peace


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Israeli Cabinet votes to Expel Arafat in Theory [Re: Xlea321]
    #1925163 -

I disagree with that statement. How is that humiliating anyway? Hell in all honesty, Jordan is made up of 80% of 'historic Palestine'. Israel and the occupied territories are only 20%. The truth still remains that since then Arafat has rejected every offer to come his way. The Saudis even told him to take the deal, and instead of even offering a different deal, he started the current fatwah. He is just like Hamas. He is a rejectionist, and he uses the peace process to keep a foothold for himself. Arafat flashing the victory sign outside of his compound the other day makes me sick. His people will not ever be victorious as long as he is around. He uses them to prop himself up. If he is so concerned for the Palestinians why doesn't he use some of his money to help them?

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