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Offlineahel
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salt and myc/spores
    #1877689 - 09/03/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

does anyone know if salt kills/slows mycellium ?? does salt kill spores??? I work with tropical fish and we use salt to treat fungal infections, I'm basically wondering if soaking grains in salted water would help keep contams at bay


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Offlinecanabza
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: ahel]
    #1879911 - 09/04/03 02:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yes Im perrty sure even low concentrations of sodium will inhibit growth of mycellium. Basicly you want as little salt as possible in your substrates. but i have heard of useing salt to patch in areas of contamination that you have cut out of a casing.
search in contam forum for salt.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: canabza]
    #1880129 - 09/04/03 03:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, salts are not good for substrate.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: zeronio]
    #1880411 - 09/04/03 07:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

actually my experiments with using canned hominy have shown that cubie spores will germinate grow and fruit on substrates containing considerable amounts of salt.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: Hippie3]
    #1880581 - 09/04/03 10:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

It sure seems like the salt would make it trich and bacteria resistant. After all, for thousands of years, we humans preserved our fresh meat in salt to keep it from rotting. Just gotta work out the right amount of salt to keep the bacteria from growing, while still allowing the established mycelia to grow.


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Offlineahel
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #1881749 - 09/04/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

hmmmm i dont know what to make of the information you guys have provided me except experiment


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Invisiblemycophreak
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: Hippie3]
    #1897131 - 09/09/03 05:13 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to hippie: salt indeed doesn't kill immediately but it is definately bad for the shelflife of sporewater (the same is true for dishwashing agents). In order to survive in their dormant stage (in the water) the spores need to be protected against salt coming in. They also need to keep their thin outer layer of fatty membrane. So do not add anything to the spores which changes their internal chemistry unless it is not important that you can't keep the sporewater.

Yachaj


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: mycophreak]
    #1898700 - 09/09/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think either hip or myself were talking about salt and spores. More like the tolerance of live mycelia to the salt. More research on this is needed.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #1898708 - 09/09/03 05:26 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

OOPs...hip did say 'spores'...lol I shoulda put my beer down to read the post..  :smile:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #1899799 - 09/09/03 09:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

but the evidence is clear,
and my hominy experiments prove it beyond any doubt.
low levels of salt are not a barrier to cubie spores germinating and growing.
now that's not quite the same thing as yachaj mentions,
storing spores in saline solutions may indeed be problematic long term.
but short term cubie spores are tough enough to survive and grow.


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Offlineahel
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: Hippie3]
    #1901041 - 09/10/03 03:56 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

sweet, when i have more experience ill experiment and post my conclusions... thanks again


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InvisibleRide On
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17624540 - 01/28/13 06:21 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It sure seems like the salt would make it trich and bacteria resistant. After all, for thousands of years, we humans preserved our fresh meat in salt to keep it from rotting.  Just gotta work out the right amount of salt to keep the bacteria from growing, while still allowing the established mycelia to grow.   




Is there update on that?

I know a bakery in my area, that makes a "natural bread". They have considerable (for my scale) amount of waste (damaged loafs etc) and I was thinking of using it for a substrate. (It's maid from grain (rye or wheat (not whole :frown:)), it's by nature fungi friendly, and it holds a lot of water (it is literally a sponge)).
It doesn't contain any chemicals or preservatives, but has salt in it.

I was thinking to soak it in large amount of water, to get the salt out, but then I thought that may be I should keep it, for the reasons described here.

What's the general consensus on that by now?

Also, can you comment on my bread idea, and specify the temperature that definitely kills yeast.

Thank you.


Edited by Ride On (01/28/13 06:40 PM)


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: Ride On]
    #17624612 - 01/28/13 06:33 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

ive germinate spores in a broth made of brown sugar and salt.


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Offlinethiotimoline
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #17625511 - 01/28/13 09:00 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

We already know that there was not enough salt to interfere with the growth of yeast, so I say try it. In my experience, bread made with normal amounts of salt and no preservatives goes moldy quite fast so must be friendly to the germination of fungal spores. Sourdough lasts much longer and would probably be a worse substrate.

I don't know exactly what temperature kills yeast but there is no way it can survive proper baking. Don't use undercooked/doughy fail-breads though.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: thiotimoline]
    #17626213 - 01/28/13 11:08 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Besides the salt, bread makes a crappy substrate.  Once the dry grains have been toasted into bread, they get soggy when re-wetted.

I experimented last year with putting various amounts of salt in our shiitake substrates to see if it made a difference on molds, but definitely mushroom mycelium growth and fruiting were substantially reduced, even with very low salt levels. 

It's best to practice good sterile procedure during inoculations, and plenty of fresh air exchange during fruiting to keep molds at bay.

RIP hip.  It was fun to see an old thread where we weren't fighting. :lol:
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleRide On
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Re: salt and myc/spores [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17629558 - 01/29/13 05:07 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you.

Quote:

Besides the salt, bread makes a crappy substrate.  Once the dry grains have been toasted into bread, they get soggy when re-wetted.




I know how to avoid it.


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