zappaisgod said:

Acaterpillar said:

zappaisgod said:

You missed the point entirely.  Why?  You spoke only of puppies but what of burglars, the insane and welfare parasites?  Their lives are by and large miserable already.  As Rumsfeld said, it is a known known.  The state of an unborn baby is an unknown unknown.

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I completely saw your point, however human embryos haven't committed robbery so I thought discussing equally innocent lives was a little more appropriate.
Capital punishment is certainly a relatable topic.

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But they aren't human lives.  Do you believe dogs have souls?

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Then we start discussing: when does a human gain their rights?

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That is a legal question.  I am demanding a different one.  What is moral?  I already said I thought Roe was a brilliant piece of legislation but I am not encumbered with your spiritual baggage.

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When they are an embryo containing a bunch of stem cells that are rapidly multiplying?

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In many respects you don't have rights until the 75th trimester

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When it has formed a brain and heart which both have begun their basic functions?

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What basic functions of the brain do you refer to?

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Or when it is born?

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Well that seems about as good a point as any and certainly less arbitrary than most.

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I have my own beliefs that you would probably regard as ridiculous, so I'll leave the conclusion to these questions up to the reader.   

One thing is absolutely for sure, once you are born you are granted some rights.
So even a thief has more rights than an embryo.
Why? Because a thief can contest his execution.

It's a dark logic to hold but I'm being practical here, for convenience sake.
I don't see life so black and white, but I know some of you do.

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I am being extremely clear that I do not see it as black and white as you do

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zappaisgod said:
Who the fuck  do you think you are, Buddha, that you can tell how someone's life will turn out, even before they are born, based on their parentage?  Talk about delusions of grandeur.

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No, I am making no claims to know what will happen. I even stated that I do not believe in destiny, so anything is really possible.
But, it is asinine to claim that humans cannot infer some of the implications that a birth would have upon their living situation.

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Imperfect humans can infer nothing.  They can observe that which is.  Junkies, nutters, recidivist criminals.... we all know they suck already.  Why not whack them as well?

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Also, the hostility isn't appreciated.

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Too bad.  I don't like hypocrites

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Jesus Christ you are an ass hole. This turned into a government provided abortion argument involving Roe vs Wade

Almond Flour said:

Only a scrub turns to abortion for lifes.greatest blessings. I had my son a year ago....im 23 now and my life kicks ass.

Dont be a coward bro, and dont fool yourself into thinking its not possible

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millzy said:

Almond Flour said:

Only a scrub turns to abortion for lifes.greatest blessings. I had my son a year ago....im 23 now and my life kicks ass.

Dont be a coward bro, and dont fool yourself into thinking its not possible

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what a sweeping generalization.

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Makes life and arguements easier

millzy said:

Almond Flour said:

Only a scrub turns to abortion for lifes.greatest blessings. I had my son a year ago....im 23 now and my life kicks ass.

Dont be a coward bro, and dont fool yourself into thinking its not possible

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what a sweeping generalization.

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Almond Flour said:

what a sweeping generalization.

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Makes life and arguements easier

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i think you'll find as you get older that it won't. life is not black and white most of the time and it's filled with really difficult decisions at every turn. this is a big issue, and writing off everyone who's had an abortion as a coward is inaccurate and venomous.

millzy said:

Almond Flour said:

what a sweeping generalization.

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Makes life and arguements easier

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Almond Flour said:

.....this isnt one of those senarios where i would justify it. Sure there are sometimes where it might be.needed.....but simply because it will make life slightly less perfect isnt one of them

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millzy said:

Almond Flour said:

.....this isnt one of those senarios where i would justify it. Sure there are sometimes where it might be.needed.....but simply because it will make life slightly less perfect isnt one of them

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a lot of the times it's not about making anything "less perfect". some women (and men) just aren't ready. my ex wife had one when she was 17, and she insists that it was the right thing to do. i understand that it's a decision that nobody in their right mind would take lightly, but if you want to have concern for the living, consider the would-be parents. the sad fact of the matter is that a child is somewhat of a disadvantage for single parents, especially younger ones who don't make enough to ensure their proper care. so the burden is passed down to the families of the parents and often, to the state as well.

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millzy said:

again, that's an extremely simplistic view of this issue.

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millzy said:

again, that's an extremely simplistic view of this issue.

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mpd said:

You can proffer all of the justifications and obfuscations you want, but we all know that, in the end, you are trying to assuage your own guilt in being a willing conspirator in the murder of a human being.  It is particularly ironic that the arguments in favor of murdering unborn people are those who were not aborted.

Own it.

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yogabunny said:

i wish we could all approach this from a more rational/scientific point of view rather than emotional/spiritual.

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mpd said:

millzy said:

again, that's an extremely simplistic view of this issue.

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That is an educated way of saying I am right and you are choosing to ignore the fact that I am right so that you do not have to confront the reality of the matter.  It is a very typical liberal reaction.  One we see quite often.

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