Humility said:

This thought experiment is broken.

If a driver drove a car 65 mph in a parking lot and didn't flee the scene he WOULD be held responsible for causing you to jump out of the way or get hit.


Costco would ABSOLUTELY be liable for a pothole in their parking lot that, while you were evading a fatal incident, caused you such immense trauma and physical anguish.




In a country where a guy hands a woman a cup of (granted, too hot) hot coffee and she spills it on herself and her labia fuse together and she can sue McDonalds for millions, I don't see how such an incident would occur in which n either Costco or the driver are held responsible and forced to pay large settlements.

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Vaipen said:

This liability society makes people in Europe shake their head with disbelief. Why do Americans let themselves go like that.

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Vaipen said:

I referred to your claim-culture. To us it seems its over the top. The case of the woman spilling hot coffee is well-known here and a source of ridicule.

I think mostly our take on it is this, that someone who spills coffee should have been more careful. It seems like Castaneda's 'little baby syndrome' of some sort. The woman makes a mistake and then cries out blaming others for her stupidity because she cannot accept she was stupid.

The second aspect is that we are amazed she can then sue MacDonalds for millions. Our laws do not allow for such claims at all. Now you could argue that government has no right to limit such high claims and that it is your right to claim as high as you like. That is fine by me. But it brings up point three.

The fact that suing seems to be based on little but greed. Of course there are arguments about how hot coffee should be served and if it is not wiser to have the coffee a little less hot. Still that doesn't warrant in our eyes claims of millions. It seems to me that when Macdonalds needs to pay a high claim, the price of coffee for all will go up to compensate for the loss. Maybe this unforeseen loss is part of a bad turnover that year and so someone loses their job somewhere else over it.

Anyway, speculation perhaps, but things lead to another. How we behave affects others. Maybe that is why specialists can ask so much per hour. When they screw up the liability suit will ruin them.

In our laws we have maximums for certain situations. I think recently the highest claim was paid. I believe it was over a million euro's but it isn't public information. This was the case of a wrongly convicted innocent person who spent years in jail.

There are iirc from my law classes certain amounts that are fixed. If you go in a hospital and they amputate the wrong leg there is a standard amount for it. Someone using fireworks and throws your eye out you can sue them for a maximum of... I don't know these figures.

So the whole OP's issue of stepping into a hole etc... I do know that we can sue local government if you ride your bicycle and your wheel bends because the street is broken. It is their job to keep the streets in good condition. Of course it will be filling in forms and waiting months for a response. :-)

I just think we should take some more responsibility for our own stupidity instead of cruing out and opportunistically sue for large lump summs.

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Enlil said:

Vaipen, let me ask you this:  What does McDonald's care about people's safety if claims against them are limited?

Do you think McDonald's is gonna notice a $10k payout?  The restaurant in that case was warned multiple times before and ignored it...so...what does it take to make a huge international corporation notice a problem?  The answer is clear...they notice large amounts of money being paid out.

Everyone wants to talk about tort reform, but what keeps businesses responsible if not the courts?

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Enlil said:

Vaipen, let me ask you this:  What does McDonald's care about people's safety if claims against them are limited?

Do you think McDonald's is gonna notice a $10k payout?  The restaurant in that case was warned multiple times before and ignored it...so...what does it take to make a huge international corporation notice a problem?  The answer is clear...they notice large amounts of money being paid out.

Everyone wants to talk about tort reform, but what keeps businesses responsible if not the courts?

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zappaisgod said:

Really?  Hot water is now a hazard?  Did you know that you have to use hot water to make coffee and tea?  True story, shyster.  Maybe we should require intelligence tests to buy coffee.  Idiots and assholes increase the price of just about everything we buy.  Idiots being the injured and assholes being the people who do anything other than laugh at them.

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Enlil said:

In an autoclave...

Nonetheless, hot water is, in fact, a health hazard.  180 degree water is way hotter than necessary to make coffee...

The lady had 3rd degree burns...spent 8 days in the hospital, and required 2 years of surgery to recover...we're not talking about someone a little miffed because they accidentally spilled some hot coffee...

If you don't like it, you can go somewhere that allows corporations to do whatever the fuck they want without having to pay for their mistakes...

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Enlil said:

In an autoclave...

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Quote:

Nonetheless, hot water is, in fact, a health hazard.  180 degree water is way hotter than necessary to make coffee...

The lady had 3rd degree burns...spent 8 days in the hospital, and required 2 years of surgery to recover...we're not talking about someone a little miffed because they accidentally spilled some hot coffee...

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Quote:

If you don't like it, you can go somewhere that allows corporations to do whatever the fuck they want without having to pay for their mistakes...

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