imachavel said:

Prisoner#1 said:

koods said:

One shooting. Every other day. the logical reason is the number of people killed by guns in this country. Tens of thousands every year. No other country comes close.

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because IEDs, Car bombs and militants in african nations that shoot and kill
entire villages arent shootings... except that latter is but for some reason
those stat arent added to the shooting stats.


how about a little fact checking

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Rank  Countries  Amount
# 1    South Africa: 31,918 
# 2    Colombia: 21,898 
# 3    Thailand: 20,032 
# 4    United States: 9,369 



I wonder why mexico made #6, they should be above the US since the cartels
are shooting up everyone, an average of 11,000 gun related murders in 2010
and they banned guns. guns are illegal there so clearly they shouldnt even have the 2000 murders they list

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/mexico
ChartIn Mexico, annual firearm homicides total

2010: 11,3097
2009: 8,804
2008: 5,095
2007: 4,040
2006: 3,53011
2005: 3,212
2004: 2,8587
2003: 3,006
2002: 2,60612
2001: 3,512
2000: 3,58913
1999: 4,390
1998: 3,286
1997: 5,0447


and guns are illegal in mexico. keep making shit up

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amazing that countries with more strict gun laws have more gun murders then a country that has less strict gun laws. If you could give me a link to those statistics I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to defend my innocence as a person without compassion who argues for the purpose of some type of mental acrobatics. Here is what I'm being accused of(by someone who isn't a forum member, as far as I know):

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billy jowl said:

Prisoner#1 said:

you cant keep blaming the worlds problems on the US, mexico is responsible for
mexico's problems. Obama/Holder had a reason for the gun walking and it wasnt
to track the cartels or to end the war on drugs. it was part of his plan to
start restricting access to guns in the US. if the US wanted to wipe out the
cartels we'd use napalm. we're funding the cartels via the state department

you liberals, none can own up to their shit and they love to lay blame,
wanna keep blaming bush for the impotence of barack obama

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This is why I love fox news, they report this shit, I've always kinda looked up to Rupert Murdock, his views on reagen and all. Say what you will about reagen, we could use him right about now.

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Shill said:

imachavel said:

Prisoner#1 said:

koods said:

One shooting. Every other day. the logical reason is the number of people killed by guns in this country. Tens of thousands every year. No other country comes close.

---

because IEDs, Car bombs and militants in african nations that shoot and kill
entire villages arent shootings... except that latter is but for some reason
those stat arent added to the shooting stats.


how about a little fact checking

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Rank  Countries  Amount
# 1    South Africa: 31,918 
# 2    Colombia: 21,898 
# 3    Thailand: 20,032 
# 4    United States: 9,369 



I wonder why mexico made #6, they should be above the US since the cartels
are shooting up everyone, an average of 11,000 gun related murders in 2010
and they banned guns. guns are illegal there so clearly they shouldnt even have the 2000 murders they list

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/mexico
ChartIn Mexico, annual firearm homicides total

2010: 11,3097
2009: 8,804
2008: 5,095
2007: 4,040
2006: 3,53011
2005: 3,212
2004: 2,8587
2003: 3,006
2002: 2,60612
2001: 3,512
2000: 3,58913
1999: 4,390
1998: 3,286
1997: 5,0447


and guns are illegal in mexico. keep making shit up

---

amazing that countries with more strict gun laws have more gun murders then a country that has less strict gun laws. If you could give me a link to those statistics I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to defend my innocence as a person without compassion who argues for the purpose of some type of mental acrobatics. Here is what I'm being accused of(by someone who isn't a forum member, as far as I know):

"Oh, it's okay Sasha. When he realizes he was offensively mistaken about my previous experience and my actual student base, he resorted to a completely different line of "logic" (something about prehistoric violence, or some other unrelated topic). Some people don't appear to have any actual emotional investment in the wellbeing of humanity. Their arguments are merely mental gymnastics for them, and comparably sophisticated with rolling around on the floor, where you're trying to explain to them to perform advanced acrobatics. "For the person who is indifferent, his or her neighbor are of no consequence. And therefore, their lives are meaningless. Their hidden or even visible anguish is of no consequence. Indifference then, reduces the other to an abstraction." - More insight from Elie Wiesel."

This is what I got for telling a college graduate who is a psychologist and apparently all his students have some morbid fear of guns because of massacres in other states, that he was wrong that guns are the cause of murder, that intent was the cause of murder. Especially funny considering this guy lives like 10 blocks from where the face eating incident occurred down here. If prisoner #1 could provide me a link showing that countries with stricter gun laws have more murders per capita then the U.S. I'd greatly appreciate it

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How is it amazing?

It's the same reason that the Aurora shooter chose a theatre that had banned concealed carry even though the rest allowed concealed carry; or that Newtown had strict concealed carry laws.  Nobody could shoot back

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trekie said:

Im for locking up  and castrating the mental ill / pedophiles .

Seriously instead of giving them a pay check and a warm place to shit just lock them up throw away the key.

I grew up with firearms and the few times we were lucky enough to shoot a deer we ate it.
Please dont ban them because of some asshat.

I still dont get how some of the people who want all drugs legal dont see the firearm thing the same way.

Dont give me that bullshit that you know your dealer but do you know his or who else he sells too. All gangs are involed in the drug trade and nearly all are voilent as fuck. (this includes some of the medshops too) . If you think otherwise your dumb as fuck.
Its better then they would have gotten even a few hundred years ago.


Its sorta interesting this part of human history . Mike Huckabee has a point about the god thing some humans need something to fear beyond this world to keep from doing something awful ( other use the higher power to do something awful).
Or maybe they are just nuts 

I grew up with firearms and the few times we were lucky enough to shoot a deer we ate it.
Please dont ban them because of some asshat.

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trekie said:

I live in a city that has the most restrictive gun laws and one of the highest murder rates 


Norway has some of the most restrictive gun laws of the nordic countries still didnt stop an insane man doing something horrible.

Bad men will do bad things

And its a well know fact that Japan fudges its numbers

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koods said:

trekie said:

Im for locking up  and castrating the mental ill / pedophiles .

Seriously instead of giving them a pay check and a warm place to shit just lock them up throw away the key.

I grew up with firearms and the few times we were lucky enough to shoot a deer we ate it.
Please dont ban them because of some asshat.

I still dont get how some of the people who want all drugs legal dont see the firearm thing the same way.

Dont give me that bullshit that you know your dealer but do you know his or who else he sells too. All gangs are involed in the drug trade and nearly all are voilent as fuck. (this includes some of the medshops too) . If you think otherwise your dumb as fuck.
Its better then they would have gotten even a few hundred years ago.


Its sorta interesting this part of human history . Mike Huckabee has a point about the god thing some humans need something to fear beyond this world to keep from doing something awful ( other use the higher power to do something awful).
Or maybe they are just nuts 

I grew up with firearms and the few times we were lucky enough to shoot a deer we ate it.
Please dont ban them because of some asshat.

---

We have a constitution that protects individuals from being locked up for having a mental illness. In this country, you have to have been convicted of a crime (or been strongly suspected of committing one before a trial) or made specific threats.

This country has a gun problem. They are too easy to obtain and they are too leathal. No hunter needs a clip with 30 rounds to deer hunt. No homeowner needs 30 rounds to defend their home (if you really do, your problems are bigger than any gun will solve.) the gun that killed those kids, and most of the guns involved in these kinds of shooting are not sporting nor good for self-defense. You don't have any 2nd ammendment right to these kinds of guns and they should be banned.

If you don't believe a gun ban would work, look at all the places in the world where it does. The comparison to drug bans is an absurd analogy. There are well understood physiological and neurological reasons why people will try to get drugs no matter what. Sure, there are freaks who will try to get guns no matter what, but a gun isn't chemically stimulating your dopamine receptors - and that makes all the difference in the world.

There is no evidence that banning drugs has ever done much to control them, no society has succeeded in doing so. There is plenty of evidence that banning guns or at least severely limiting their availability because there a many societies that have very few gun deaths. Japan (historically, not the most peaceful people in the world) have strict gun controls and have an average of 20 gun deaths a year - proof that gun control works.

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Prisoner#1 said:

imachavel said:

Prisoner#1 said:

koods said:

One shooting. Every other day. the logical reason is the number of people killed by guns in this country. Tens of thousands every year. No other country comes close.

---

because IEDs, Car bombs and militants in african nations that shoot and kill
entire villages arent shootings... except that latter is but for some reason
those stat arent added to the shooting stats.


how about a little fact checking

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Rank  Countries  Amount
# 1    South Africa: 31,918 
# 2    Colombia: 21,898 
# 3    Thailand: 20,032 
# 4    United States: 9,369 



I wonder why mexico made #6, they should be above the US since the cartels
are shooting up everyone, an average of 11,000 gun related murders in 2010
and they banned guns. guns are illegal there so clearly they shouldnt even have the 2000 murders they list

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/mexico
ChartIn Mexico, annual firearm homicides total

2010: 11,3097
2009: 8,804
2008: 5,095
2007: 4,040
2006: 3,53011
2005: 3,212
2004: 2,8587
2003: 3,006
2002: 2,60612
2001: 3,512
2000: 3,58913
1999: 4,390
1998: 3,286
1997: 5,0447


and guns are illegal in mexico. keep making shit up

---

amazing that countries with more strict gun laws have more gun murders then a country that has less strict gun laws. If you could give me a link to those statistics I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to defend my innocence as a person without compassion who argues for the purpose of some type of mental acrobatics. Here is what I'm being accused of(by someone who isn't a forum member, as far as I know):

---

the links are provided, nationmaster is nothing more than a statistics clearinghouse based on data compiled fromt the nations themselves so they cant take into account nation like japan that skew the data by claiming a triple homicide as 3 suicides simply because the killer killed himself

gunpolicy.org is a site looking to 'reduce gun violence', they also draw from the same sources but go a bit further and draw from several other sources compiling the information, their data tends to be surprisingly accurate given their aim. they're not padding it like many sites

Quote:

If prisoner #1 could provide me a link showing that countries with stricter gun laws have more murders per capita then the U.S. I'd greatly appreciate it

---

there's a few things to take into account, one being the number of guns in
the hands of the population, how restrictive the gun policies are, what sorts
of weapons are prohibited or require special licensing. to use south africa
as an example their laws are considered to be restrictive, semi-automatics
require a special license and there's no rights to owning a firearms and you
absolutely are disallowed from owning an automatic weapon with dozens of
exclusionary rules preventing many from owning firearms and yet their
firearms murder rates are 3x as high as in the US with a much larger
population, the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, least restrictive
laws regarding ownership and while many of our exclusionary rules are the
same regarding criminal history, mental illness, etc. most states allow for
concealed and open carry which puts a far larger number of guns on the
streets and our firearms murder rate is less than one third

columbia and thailand laws are just as restrictive in most areas and more
restrictive in a few others such as restrictions on weapons type and caliber.
ownership in these countries require licensing, licensing  in all three of
these countries require a 'genuine need' for the firearm such as being a body
guard or a security officer and even then the majority are rejected. these
nations require a license to obtain ammunition for the arms. none allow for
private sales while in the US our policies are considered very permissive
with no background checks on private sales, little in licensing requirements
for ownership outside of NFA weapons such as machine guns and silencers and
in certain jurisdictions. the number of weapons of all classes in the US is
more than 300x that of the other 3 countries listed and our firearm murder
rate it half or less than the top 3 with such heavy restriction

http://www.gunpolicy.org

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koods said:

We have a constitution that protects individuals from being locked up for having a mental illness.
In this country, you have to have been convicted of a crime (or been strongly suspected of committing one before a trial) or made specific threats.

---

Quote:

This country has a gun problem. They are too easy to obtain and they are too leathal. No hunter needs a clip with 30 rounds to deer hunt. No homeowner needs 30 rounds to defend their home (if you really do, your problems are bigger than any gun will solve.)

---

Quote:

the gun that killed those kids, and most of the guns involved in these kinds of shooting are not sporting nor good for self-defense. You don't have any 2nd ammendment right to these kinds of guns and they should be banned.

---

hahahaha... the gun that killed those kids was wielded by a mentally unstable
fuckhead, it's not the gun that did the killing, it's a person that did it,
and given that he was unstable and wanted to kill, what was to stop him from
building a bomb from plans he'd gotten from the internet... you dont have a
constitutional right to the internet but I do have a constitutional right to
fully automatic assault weapons with 9000 round magazines, bayonetlugs and
pistol grips, parkerized to be black or painted pink and the reason I know I
have that constitutional right is because I have those guns

I'm even going to buy my children some, I think my daughter will love this




then maybe get one like this for my son

Quote:

If you don't believe a gun ban would work, look at all the places in the world where it does.

---

Quote:

The comparison to drug bans is an absurd analogy.

---

Quote:

There is no evidence that banning drugs has ever done much to control them, no society has succeeded in doing so. There is plenty of evidence that banning guns or at least severely limiting their availability because there a many societies that have very few gun deaths. Japan (historically, not the most peaceful people in the world) have strict gun controls and have an average of 20 gun deaths a year - proof that gun control works.

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imachavel said:

the links you provided did not show that the countries with higher murder rates with guns also have stricter gun laws. Otherwise I read everything you said. And still find it strange that a country with as lenient gun laws as the United States has a lower murder rate with guns then others with less lenient laws.

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joe666 said:

My niece is 4 now.
I have a .22 rifle for her when she turns 7.

I was thinking of trading/selling it and getting one in pink for her. but I think I'll wait and see how girly she is @ 7.
she might hate the pink.

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7, LOL. Too early for owning a gun, perhaps? Or do you live day to day with major risks all the time like this?

Come to think of it, I seem to associate your user name to hunting/ red neck style posts in the past. Oh well I'm obviously wasting my time here...

(BTW, I have no problem with hunting or being a red neck, just FYI.)

trekie said:

Cleaning out the gene pool


Only the violent ones

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Prisoner#1 said:

imachavel said:

the links you provided did not show that the countries with higher murder rates with guns also have stricter gun laws. Otherwise I read everything you said. And still find it strange that a country with as lenient gun laws as the United States has a lower murder rate with guns then others with less lenient laws.

---

actually it does it just wasnt provided for you as you wanted, that's the thing
with research, you have to look for the information you need. I cant hold your
hand through looking at the number of guns in a country in relation to the
murder rate by firearm

if a country has 270,000,000 gun owners and only 9000 murders do they have a
higher firearm related murder rate than a country with 2000 gun owners and 47
gun related murders?

---

moonrockmushy said:

trekie said:

Cleaning out the gene pool


Only the violent ones

---

Yeah, you guys are onto something.

First we will eliminate those with mental defiencies, then we will eliminate those with political ideologies that go against those of the state, then we will find a scapegoat for all our economic failings in order to unite the master race so that we can return to the true glory and honor of our forefathers.

I can't believe nobody thought of this before.

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maybe Hitler had the right idea, but carried out the punishments too far

after all, it seems Obama pretty much silences those with political ideologies that go against the state, maybe with prison, maybe by creating another bureau or forum so strong it over shadows those with political ideologies and they are silenced by their lack of attention, perhaps by torturing them in a prison not in this country and no longer in Cuba. And he seems to find a scapegoat for all our economic failings and in doing so bails out the main power of this country to unite the master race of individuals with more importance in our society so that we can return to the true glory and honor of our forefathers

and a larger percentage of the population sides and agrees with him then doesn't. And now people think removing gun rights for citizens will stop crime. But those same individuals don't seem to have any problem with a failing government with toppling debt that can't pay for the state law system and federal bureaus to fully investigate and punish criminals, and allow criminals with questionable back grounds and shady records to run free on the street with no restraint. As long as guns are gun, I suppose America will be safe, and no wrong doing will be done.

And what happens in a system with a failing economy? Do the states get the taxes and support they need to fully enforce the law? Will banning guns prevent crime and strengthen the state and federal government?

imachavel said:

maybe Hitler had the right idea, but carried out the punishments too far

---

Did you really just say that?

Quote:

after all, it seems Obama pretty much silences those with political ideologies that go against the state, maybe with prison, maybe by creating another bureau or forum so strong it over shadows those with political ideologies and they are silenced by their lack of attention, perhaps by torturing them in a prison not in this country and no longer in Cuba. And he seems to find a scapegoat for all our economic failings and in doing so bails out the main power of this country to unite the master race of individuals with more importance in our society so that we can return to the true glory and honor of our forefathers

---

Quote:

and a larger percentage of the population sides and agrees with him then doesn't. And now people think removing gun rights for citizens will stop crime. But those same individuals don't seem to have any problem with a failing government with toppling debt that can't pay for the state law system and federal bureaus to fully investigate and punish criminals, and allow criminals with questionable back grounds and shady records to run free on the street with no restraint. As long as guns are gun, I suppose America will be safe, and no wrong doing will be done.

---

Quote:

And what happens in a system with a failing economy? Do the states get the taxes and support they need to fully enforce the law? Will banning guns prevent crime and strengthen the state and federal government?

---

imachavel said:

Prisoner#1 said:

imachavel said:

the links you provided did not show that the countries with higher murder rates with guns also have stricter gun laws. Otherwise I read everything you said. And still find it strange that a country with as lenient gun laws as the United States has a lower murder rate with guns then others with less lenient laws.

---

actually it does it just wasnt provided for you as you wanted, that's the thing
with research, you have to look for the information you need. I cant hold your
hand through looking at the number of guns in a country in relation to the
murder rate by firearm

if a country has 270,000,000 gun owners and only 9000 murders do they have a
higher firearm related murder rate than a country with 2000 gun owners and 47
gun related murders?

---

I thought you were the one trying to prove the point, that countries with stricter gun laws have higher murders with guns then countries with more lenient gun laws, and that most murders are committed with stolen guns

http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559336/conn-school-shooting-what-we-know/

now I feel like I'm doing your home work. How can you prove a point that gun violence in countries with more lenient gun laws is stronger without evidence and facts?

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