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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: kali ma]
    #17370372 -

kali ma said:
I accept that i am not being challenged and expanding my horizons could improve areas of my music appreciation. It just seems that Schubert was still dissastisied at the end of his days and i would hope most of us find peace before the end. Now 11 years after i finished high school i just want to be simply happy. my days as a young man determined to create ground breaking music dont feel right anymore. But what is right for me may not be right for you so ......peace


My musical teachers are 2 and 3 times my age, both of them are completely inspired. Inspiration can continue to grow there's no reason it should just stagnate, outside of extreme circumstances.
This is actually a major beef I have with the 'music industry', contemporary teaching methods, production methods,  marketing and the polarization of taste, are all driving a wedge between people and an appreciation for music (inspiration).

I come from a traditional background, an example of the difference in mind set is that I have given lessons for almost 200 hours between two months one student. The cost being low and flat, teaching is a daily window and students come whenever they can. Perform at home, on the street, at parties, on stage, but the point is always the music and the tradition. The groundbreaking is inward and emotional, the constant technical study opens one up to their instrument emotionally. Money is a non-issue, fame is poisonous.

I'm not a young man trying to be ground breaking, I follow a tradition hundreds of years old and find inspiration in the work and insight of those before me. Life without passion is a dead life

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17370788 -

good you found some inspiring teachers......i still feel music isnt nearly as important as social interaction and that the "us vs them" mentaility of trippers viewing the "sheep" as "ignorant" is negative at the source. Also i strongly feel drug use can create this head space. Is not the goal to find spiritual fulfillment and open mindedness? Claims that the majority is ignorant to the knowledge us trippers have feels bogus to me because never have i uncovered any famous trippers to actually posses any extra knowledge. The music analogy just doesnt work for me when compared to the original topic.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: kali ma]
    #17370956 -

kali ma said:
good you found some inspiring teachers......i still feel music isnt nearly as important as social interaction and that the "us vs them" mentaility of trippers viewing the "sheep" as "ignorant" is negative at the source. Also i strongly feel drug use can create this head space. Is not the goal to find spiritual fulfillment and open mindedness? Claims that the majority is ignorant to the knowledge us trippers have feels bogus to me because never have i uncovered any famous trippers to actually posses any extra knowledge. The music analogy just doesnt work for me when compared to the original topic.


We'll have to disagree on that point, I don't find social interaction more important than music. Still necessary but much less so.

Don't believe drug use affects anyone outside of how they allow it and from my experience drug users tend to be just about as ignorant as the general masses. If the masses aren't ignorant then ignorance is not a word :shrug:

Open-mindedness is a broad term, if you're implying that one should not discriminate between concepts my heads spinning as to how you came to that idea itself without discriminating between concepts.
Spiritual fulfilment is found in music as far as I'm concerned.

:itwasgoodforme:

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17370995 -

Repertoire89 said:
kali ma said:
good you found some inspiring teachers......i still feel music isnt nearly as important as social interaction and that the "us vs them" mentaility of trippers viewing the "sheep" as "ignorant" is negative at the source. Also i strongly feel drug use can create this head space. Is not the goal to find spiritual fulfillment and open mindedness? Claims that the majority is ignorant to the knowledge us trippers have feels bogus to me because never have i uncovered any famous trippers to actually posses any extra knowledge. The music analogy just doesnt work for me when compared to the original topic.


We'll have to disagree on that point, I don't find social interaction more important than music. Still necessary but much less so.

Don't believe drug use affects anyone outside of how they allow it and from my experience drug users tend to be just about as ignorant as the general masses. If the masses aren't ignorant then ignorance is not a word :shrug:

Open-mindedness is a broad term, if you're implying that one should not discriminate between concepts my heads spinning as to how you came to that idea itself without discriminating between concepts.
Spiritual fulfilment is found in music as far as I'm concerned.

:itwasgoodforme:


So we should refer to the majority as ignorant because they talk about their phones and have lots of fun at social gatherings with friends and families and children? Meanwhile us englightened ones play music by ourselves?

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: kali ma]
    #17371191 -

kali ma said:
Repertoire89 said:
kali ma said:
:itwasgoodforme:


So we should refer to the majority as ignorant because they talk about their phones and have lots of fun at social gatherings with friends and families and children? Meanwhile us englightened ones play music by ourselves?


Try the masses are ignorant because they are constantly distracted and have a limited awareness, as well as capacity for enjoyment. I never said you were enlightened, or anyone else, neither am I lonely or lack company.

Either way if I had to choose between the company of the ignorant without music and a solitary life with music, which is a rediculous idea, I would definitely choose music.


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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17371237 -

ok. maybe this thread could go back to being about social interaction and not music because im not sure why we are even having this discussion here

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: kali ma]
    #17371284 -

The point was: most people are simpletons and if one is bored of people it is likely because the people they are around. Music was used as an anlogy to show the importance of knowledge and how it helps to make life more interesting, that knowledge is mental, time/spacial, and emotional.

The detour was arguing over the analogy on which my argument rests. Defining that analogy again: life is much better when one knows how to avoid emotional pitfalls, knowing how to avoid boredom/guilt/anger.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17372993 -

Repertoire89 said:
The point was: most people are simpletons and if one is bored of people it is likely because the people they are around. Music was used as an anlogy to show the importance of knowledge and how it helps to make life more interesting, that knowledge is mental, time/spacial, and emotional.

The detour was arguing over the analogy on which my argument rests. Defining that analogy again: life is much better when one knows how to avoid emotional pitfalls, knowing how to avoid boredom/guilt/anger.


So, if "knowledge" is emotional, and we are trying to avoid emotions such as boredom/guilt/anger, this makes zero sense.  We learn to feel guilty, we are made to feel angry and we allow ourselves to be bored because we know it's easy.

Only a Fool Would Say That.


Edited by LunarEclipse (12/11/12 10:55 AM)

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: kali ma]
    #17373108 -

kali ma said:
I understand the analogy but i dont think appreciation for music is a valid analogy compared to understanding existence. Im actually a full time guitar/percussion/piano teacher and audio engineer on the side and have found this to make me a little jaded towards music. I dont enjoy hearing each chord progression and being aware its just a I IV V or a I VI II V or hearing the brick wall master limiters and
autotuned vocals and beat detective drum sections.


I'm a music teacher too and can relate to what your saying.  But my solution was to go and find some music out there that breaks the rules, that fuses styles that have never been combined before, or some electronic music that just so well produced it just makes me go "WOW" and marvel at the precision.  I guess the analogy is there with social interaction too. 

Ok, so people can be predictable, but they can also teach you things, make you laugh etc. 

And you're also in a situation where you can see loads of different perspectives, empathise with many different types of people, play the mediator.  I think I would rather be that person than the one who can only see their own point of view.

Edited by PocketLady (12/11/12 11:34 AM)

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: PocketLady]
    #17373155 -

PocketLady said:
kali ma said:
I understand the analogy but i dont think appreciation for music is a valid analogy compared to understanding existence. Im actually a full time guitar/percussion/piano teacher and audio engineer on the side and have found this to make me a little jaded towards music. I dont enjoy hearing each chord progression and being aware its just a I IV V or a I VI II V or hearing the brick wall master limiters and
autotuned vocals and beat detective drum sections.


I'm a music teacher too and can relate to what your saying.  But my solution was to go and find some music out there that breaks the rules, that fuses styles that have never been combined before, or some electronic music that just so well produced it just makes me go "WOW" and marvel at the precision.  I guess the analogy is there with social interaction too. 

Ok, so people can be predictable, but they can also teach you things, make you laugh etc.


You can either use technology, or it can use you - Anon

As to the rest of it.

People Are Strange



When You're Strange
No One Remembers Your Name
Now I must Be Strange
Cause at the poker room
It's only been 2 years
The waitress saddles up
Last week after serving me
20 fucking times over a year
Sweetly asks
"What's your name hun"
I'm Hun
I'm A Hun
I'm A Strange Hun
Now
Bring Me Food
And Don't Fuck it up
This time you sad sack
Lucky to make it in
On Time Or Even Find
The Place Phat Dunce


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17374566 -

LunarEclipse said:
So, if "knowledge" is emotional, and we are trying to avoid emotions such as boredom/guilt/anger, this makes zero sense.  We learn to feel guilty, we are made to feel angry and we allow ourselves to be bored because we know it's easy.

Only a Fool Would Say That.




Why does it make 'zero sense'? You could disagree but it's a simple idea and easy to understand - it makes sense.

See you got these negative feelings
With understanding you learn how to avoid these feelings

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17374827 -

Repertoire89 said:
LunarEclipse said:
So, if "knowledge" is emotional, and we are trying to avoid emotions such as boredom/guilt/anger, this makes zero sense.  We learn to feel guilty, we are made to feel angry and we allow ourselves to be bored because we know it's easy.

Only a Fool Would Say That.




Why does it make 'zero sense'? You could disagree but it's a simple idea and easy to understand - it makes sense.

See you got these negative feelings
With understanding you learn how to avoid these feelings


You talk like you know it.  Understanding and learning have nothing to do with avoidance of feelings.  What you teach yourself not to feel?  That make zero sense.  The two aren't connected.  It's like you saying that because you can read music you appreciate it more?  Maybe you were beat up to become a great pianist by your overbearing piano pushing parents (try saying that 5x fast) so you could read music and play a sonata from memory but hated your parents and the teacher who couldn't keep his hands off your thigh during the loud parts.  Ends up hating the piano kills both parents and is given life in prison.

Then the next person hasn't a clue how to read music but can Dance The Night Away and sweat and just love how that music makes them feel they don't know how to play it but they sure appreciate it.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17375239 -

If I could make a musical analogy...

It would be exactly as said earlier. Learning music theory, then hearing a song, and knowing the chord progression after half a second, knowing how the entire song will go after 5 seconds of listening. It doesn't lessen the appreciation one bit. After all, it sounds exactly the same whether or not you listen to it. Once you know the fingerprint, all the hands are just corollaries.

Yes people do still rustle my jimmies. It's not that they directly rustle MY sacred jimmies, those remain intact. Rather, I feel a sense of disgust and pity that someone could cling to negativity, make excuses for weakness. To trudge uphill in the snow both ways when they could quite easily go downhill all the way if they had opened their mind a little bit. It doesn't rustle MY jimmies. It truffles the johnathans I have for them.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17375397 -

LunarEclipse said:
You talk like you know it.  Understanding and learning have nothing to do with avoidance of feelings.  What you teach yourself not to feel?  That make zero sense.  The two aren't connected.


It's a simple idea, with understanding naturally comes the understanding of priorities. One of the first priorities is going to be your comfort, to be more comfortable it helps if you can manage your feelings. Makes sense to me

Managing your feelings doesn't mean apathy, I've heard that more than once before. I'll often bring negative emotions up during meditation, intensify them and wallow in the feeling - especially the process of Death from a fearful perspective. Taking those emotions and intensifying them through focus, exploring and coming to understand them. Confronting negative feelings flushes them out, leaves more room for the high.

That's just one way to manage one's feelings, and for myself I choose to take the directive and make my life better. Don't believe in the faith based concept of universal subjectivity, that being said there's an objective perspective and the further removed one is from it the more delusional. When one does not know the materials given, they cannot know how best to use them, thus they get less for their efforts and less out of life.
We should be lifting ourselves out of ignorance rather than denying its existence, if what I'm saying sounds negative it is only meant to be objectively detached. Going back to the beginning all I'm saying is: most people have a dim awareness and if one is bored with them they should find people with more awareness. Choose your companions

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17375536 -

The only thing that bugs me is that this mentality is going to seperate you from the majority. I dont believe the majority are simpletons, and those conversations that people have that feel mundane and boring arent hour long debates about phones or whatever. Im at a house party and im there for 3 - 6 hours. What are all the guests going to talk about? One of my best friends i have been close to for 23 years. How am i ever going to have an inspiring conversation with him when ive done it all before for years and years? And those ignorant boring people dont want to talk about their phones, they are trying to make polite conversation to keep the good vibes going and avoid awkward negative moments.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: kali ma]
    #17375657 -

Well we're just different people man, I was born seperate from the majority and relate to a minority so those are the people I surround myself with and there are still more people than time. Anyways I consider the majority to lack awareness not because they're different, but from observation and communication over a lifetime.

There's nothing negative about this, it's just a different lense for looking at the world. I find it easier to live in this world when I acknowledge my lack of relation to the masses, exploring my own consciousness which makes me far happier than the social consciousness is capable of reaching.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17376296 -

Repertoire89 said:
Going back to the beginning all I'm saying is: most people have a dim awareness and if one is bored with them they should find people with more awareness. Choose your companions


unfortunately for the majority, having to work 8 hours a day to make ends meet without much choice in the social environment, there's not much say in the matter.  most don't have a choice in living the majority of their lives outside of redundancy, and so a largely predictable lifestyle is almost inevitable.

Edited by Hobozen (12/11/12 08:59 PM)

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Hobozen]
    #17376391 -

It doesn't seem unfortunate for most of the people I've met, or at least it isn't shown all that often. Would be unfortunate for me though

:doingmediocre:

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: crkhd]
    #17376413 -

crkhd said:
If I could make a musical analogy...

It would be exactly as said earlier. Learning music theory, then hearing a song, and knowing the chord progression after half a second, knowing how the entire song will go after 5 seconds of listening. It doesn't lessen the appreciation one bit. After all, it sounds exactly the same whether or not you listen to it. Once you know the fingerprint, all the hands are just corollaries.

Yes people do still rustle my jimmies. It's not that they directly rustle MY sacred jimmies, those remain intact. Rather, I feel a sense of disgust and pity that someone could cling to negativity, make excuses for weakness. To trudge uphill in the snow both ways when they could quite easily go downhill all the way if they had opened their mind a little bit. It doesn't rustle MY jimmies. It truffles the johnathans I have for them.


A bagatelle is nothing to trifle with.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Jaded by the predictability of social interactions [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17376598 -

Repertoire89 said:
It doesn't seem unfortunate for most of the people I've met, or at least it isn't shown all that often. Would be unfortunate for me though

:doingmediocre:


I went through many jobs until I found something nice and fitting.  It's a general rule amongst parents to teach their kids not to quit, and to keep at it even if there is stress.  The attitudes that many have in lots of workplace seem obviously associated with redundancy and stress.

It's much more common to hear the phrase, "I have to work today", than it is to hear "I get to work today".  Actually I've yet to hear someone enthused about going to work.  If it didn't take up so much of our day maybe it would be different. 

The redundancy of the way this shit is set up is overwhelming for most whether they are willing to admit it or not.

I remember hearing that somewhere or sometime people within a society only had to work 4 or so hours a day to live a comfortable life.  Imagine how much more freedom would be possible?

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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