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Giving
    #16825339 -

Just wanted to spur a little discussion on giving. It seems to me that the majority of giving that happens in my experience is giving out of self sacrifice. Sacrificing time, sacrificing money, sacrificing effort. And we expect to be repaid for these sacrifices ala "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" or some sort of quid pro quo.

You also have giving that takes on a religious nature. Is this different than sacrifice? I've watched my mom for all my life drop a decent amount of money into the coffers of the Church. And I'm fairly sure she does it out of devotion to God, and sees it as giving the money away to "Him" so as to symbolically and in practice place God higher than the money. Is this not a sort of sacrifice? It's not burning meat to get into heaven but it may as well be.

Is there any way to give that doesn't revolve around this sacrificial mentality? The mentality that feels as if what we give is actually valuable? Is there a way to be joyful in giving instead of sacrificial?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #16825376 -

Genuine friendship.

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Re: Giving [Re: White Beard]
    #16825381 -

nice quick answer :thumbup:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #16825383 -

giving out of gratitude ?


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Re: Giving [Re: deff]
    #16825397 -

sounds like a healthy approach to me. rather than looking to be appreciated for giving, giving out of appreciation. A good flip :thumbup:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16825402 -

yeah :smile:


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Re: Giving [Re: deff] * 1
    #16825693 -

Happiness and cheerfulness is a free, contagious gift that emerges effortlessly with a little practice. :sun:

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Re: Giving [Re: Derna]
    #16825768 -

The best gifts are not material in my opinion.  They may not even be words, but just the gift of giving another person peace by emitting a good vibration.


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Nu Trance Tunes
http://aefibes.bandcamp.com/album/gnuum

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16826252 -

You can give things for the sake of freedom from them. I often see myself how attached I am to this or that, then I just give part of it, if it is money for example, or wholy away or just don't engage in activities that bring me that desired object.
It's quite a pleasure to not need things which you actually do not need.

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Re: Giving [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #16826330 -

I tend to get a real good feeling when I give, just for the sake of giving. The, "Spirit of Christmas" has always been an interesting thing for me, because I tend to watch everyone in America fall into this temporary, happy, giving mood that always fades because they need some sort of holiday permission to be there. xD

-V

Edited by Vahn421 (09/10/12 10:31 PM)

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Re: Giving [Re: Vahn421]
    #16826339 -

I guess you've never worked retail during the holidays. :lol:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16827338 -

Giving knowing that what you give will bring positive results in the other person (happiness, joy, less suffering etc). As opposed to giving to feel superior or for self-gratifying reasons.


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Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16827417 -

Kickle said:
I guess you've never worked retail during the holidays. :lol:


:lol:

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Re: Giving [Re: White Beard]
    #16827425 -

White Beard said:
Genuine friendship.


Even with friendship, you give to them as it lights up the rewards centers in your brain and ensures a greater chance of the friendship continuing allowing you to get more oxytocin flowin.

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16827649 -

Kickle said:
Just wanted to spur a little discussion on giving. It seems to me that the majority of giving that happens in my experience is giving out of self sacrifice. Sacrificing time, sacrificing money, sacrificing effort. And we expect to be repaid for these sacrifices ala "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" or some sort of quid pro quo.

You also have giving that takes on a religious nature. Is this different than sacrifice? I've watched my mom for all my life drop a decent amount of money into the coffers of the Church. And I'm fairly sure she does it out of devotion to God, and sees it as giving the money away to "Him" so as to symbolically and in practice place God higher than the money. Is this not a sort of sacrifice? It's not burning meat to get into heaven but it may as well be.

Is there any way to give that doesn't revolve around this sacrificial mentality? The mentality that feels as if what we give is actually valuable? Is there a way to be joyful in giving instead of sacrificial?


Giving builds an infrastructure of support through implied though indirect obligation. Though I may not be thinking about it when I show up at a friends house with beer and steaks for the grill, the effect is, if I'm ever in need, I know they'll be there for me. Now of course I'm not thinking about it at the time, but that is the effect. It's a really affective social structure that exists in all cultures, because it's better for us as individuals, and as a species if we all help each other out.

There's no sacrifice, I'm just contributing to an affective mechanism of social support.

The old tradition of towns or tribes coming together for a feast is a really good example of this. During a good hunting season or harvest, a town or tribe would throw a feast for all the surrounding villages. That way, during a time of famine those other villages would be obligated to help them out. People tend not to think in those terms though, instead we rationalize our internal feelings of compulsion to help a friend in need by calling it the "right", or "good" thing to do.


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16828238 -

Give what can't be seen, Love

Ifit can't be seen you can't be that proud about it, and you can't feel your trading for anything (giving/recieving)

Not sure if this applies to the OP?


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Re: Giving [Re: birdland]
    #16828699 -

birdland said:
Kickle said:
I guess you've never worked retail during the holidays. :lol:


:lol:

:lolsy:



Im all about giving, and it has only made me rich. Literally.



That said, even giving, at its core can be considered selfish because most give to make themselves 'feel good'. Personally, i dont do it for the feeling i get inside when I give, I give because I know the feeling of being in the other persons shoes, with nothing besides a pair.


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Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Giving [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #16828872 -

TheMushroomJesus said:
birdland said:
Kickle said:
I guess you've never worked retail during the holidays. :lol:


:lol:

:lolsy:



Im all about giving, and it has only made me rich. Literally.



That said, even giving, at its core can be considered selfish because most give to make themselves 'feel good'. Personally, i dont do it for the feeling i get inside when I give, I give because I know the feeling of being in the other persons shoes, with nothing besides a pair.


But knowing how you felt in the past, when you had nothing, is why you give, because you felt good when others gave to you when you had not. Yes?

The act of servitude while being humble, i think their is a great wisdom in that, first shall be last, last shall be first and what not.:heart:

Also i believe karma exists, even though to do something knowing that it may come back to you as a reward in itself is a kinda selfish mindset, to do for others, with no desire for returned reward. When knowing that all things physical are immaterial, except your actions, when guided by love, that give the fruits (rewards) of these unselfish actions towards your fellow human, peace, joy, and love are the only things that exist that are truely priceless. kinda cheesey and cliche but so true non the less.:heart:

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Re: Giving [Re: Chronic7]
    #16832045 -

The Chronic said:
Give what can't be seen, Love

Ifit can't be seen you can't be that proud about it, and you can't feel your trading for anything (giving/recieving)

Not sure if this applies to the OP?


Sure it does. And I think it's wise and a really good place to be. Many are instead looking for love. Maybe you have to feel loved before you can really give it. So yah, probably the best thing to give because then others can give love too. :heart:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Giving [Re: Kickle]
    #16834862 -

So, I went to help out with some construction work today.. I didn't expect to get paid, just went to hang out and be active. After the job done the owner wanted to pay me, but I said 'Cut it from your lodgers debt'. He's poor as a church mouse, I really don't expect anything from him.. he doesn't even know anyway.
You see, there's no such thing as a non-egoistic action. You always do it for yourself. Either to feel good about yourself or you have oneness perspective - Anyone you help is actually you.
So, god is an egoist and narcissist. And it's ok, nothing wrong with it.


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It's fine.

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