spock said:

Enlil said:

I understand the points against affirmative action...and I agree with some of them, but your assessment of black lawyers based on it is simply nonsense...

You fail to consider an entirely different factor that has a MUCH more profound impact on law school demographics than race....that's MONEY...people who come from money are way, way more likely to become lawyers.

So your racial classification doesn't help you very much...In fact, by ruling out a black lawyer, you're very likely to have ruled out the one who worked hardest to get into law school.  The white lawyer very well may have gotten in solely because his daddy knows the right people.

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Did you even read my post?

spock said:

There are many resources for finding a good lawyer. The bar association comes to mind
but there are others.

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So yeah.. I agree with you 100%
I've needed the defence of a good lawyer more times than I'm proud of(not that I'm
ashamed either) and would have been a fool to put my trust in someone based on the
color of their eyes, the color of their skin or even their gender.
I understand both sides of the affirmative action debate.

Peace
Spock

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Not Quite Social said:

Besides the less overt systemic & cultural preferences which affirmative action attempts to address (on behalf of women, too, I may add; which makes me wonder, do you think affirmative action for women was not necessary or was used to give intellectually inferior women a leg up?) ...

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anyway, besides the systemic subtle racism and sexism, there's the unapologetic legacy preferences (That's how your momma got in--I joke--a 'yo mamma' joke, get it?) Why don't Therian and qman inveigh against legacy preferences and make the just-as-logical-inference that the wealthy, as a class, including the capital "S" Society folks at Yale and Harvard, are intellectually inferior to the middle class bootstrappers?

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  Obviously, the rich wouldn't require legacy preferences if they were smart? 

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Maybe it's only legitimate for the established white old-money folks to game the system? 

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Maybe they're just entitled to put up road blocks to, you know, others? 

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What have you to say, Therian?  About affirmative action for women?  About legacy preferences?  My guess is this: you'll say, 'I don't think anyone should get an unfair advantage'.  How noble!  Unfortunately, that's not reality.  Reality is ... the fix is in, and we, as a small "s" society, have to figure out how to deal with it, how try to balance the already woppiejob scales.  Affirmative action is/was a way to address it, a counterweight.  Otherwise, you just accept the already present and deeply rooted unfairness--that's an easy thing to do if the scales are tilted in your favor.

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Not Quite Social said:

Zappa,

I get you.  You're not a racist fuck, you have contempt for social engineering because you think the engineers are as likely as anybody to be half-wits and create more harm than good--right?  Well, you and I are old enough to remember a world where blacks and women weren't doctors and ceo's.  The world has changed for the better at least in this respect.  I work for a black owned business.  My personal physician is a woman.  It's all good.  There's no more basis to resent them and denigrate their achievement because they're black or female than to resent the self-perpetuating upper class because they gained their position through birthright and affluence, is there?  Anyway, I have three daughters, and I appreciate the opportunities they'll have versus what they might have had 50 or 60 years ago.  Affirmative action is less necessary now to the extent that it was successful.

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zappaisgod said:

Not Quite Social said:

Zappa,

I get you.  You're not a racist fuck, you have contempt for social engineering because you think the engineers are as likely as anybody to be half-wits and create more harm than good--right?  Well, you and I are old enough to remember a world where blacks and women weren't doctors and ceo's.  The world has changed for the better at least in this respect.  I work for a black owned business.  My personal physician is a woman.  It's all good.  There's no more basis to resent them and denigrate their achievement because they're black or female than to resent the self-perpetuating upper class because they gained their position through birthright and affluence, is there?  Anyway, I have three daughters, and I appreciate the opportunities they'll have versus what they might have had 50 or 60 years ago.  Affirmative action is less necessary now to the extent that it was successful.

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It is no longer necessary and has become harmful.  The field of opportunity, vis a vis race and gender, is pretty much leveled.  My daughter did not get a full scholarship because of her gender or her race.  Nor has she been accepted at some top law schools because of it.  She just earned it.

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qman said:

Great, a young zappa practicing law, guys I think I found my new legal representation!!

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  She aint exactly a young me.

Chespirito said:

Congrats to her.  As a 2L myself make sure to drill into her that regardless of the law school she is in, she still needs to be at the top of her class to get a biglaw job.  Im not at Harvard, but I do have friends there, only one of whom got a job as the other ones thought the name alone would land them a job.  I go to a top 20 school, but it was very satisfying to me to beat out kids for my job from yale, harvard, stanford because they felt they could outmuscle a kid from a lower ranked school.

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Chespirito said:

If you think the only way to get a biglaw job is through school ranking you are unaware of what you're talking about frankly.  It's a much different market out there than it used to be.  Just ask the kid from Stanford I sat next to at a callback interview. 
'But, but we're number 3!!'

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Enlil said:

After you've been practicing 3 years or so...grades don't matter much....

Nonetheless...off topic...Grats to your daughter, zappa.

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Therian said:

Apparently the mainstream media has found that the relationship between obama and the racist negro professor Derrick Bell is non-controversial. The whole idea of critical race theory has now become nothing more than something that was "debated" in the halls of academia and not a radical racist ideology embraced by Obamas negro minions.

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