Home | Community | Message Board


Gaiana.nl
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Offlineekomstop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Uncommon Sense: Conspiracy and other theories
    #3197121 - 09/29/04 09:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Uncommon Sense
Conspiracy and other theories

By Michael Hasty
Online Journal Columnist

Download a .pdf file for printing.
Adobe Acrobat Reader required.
Click here to download a free copy.

September 24, 2004?In his eyewitness account of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," author William Shirer, who lived in Nazi Germany throughout most of the 1930s, described a phenomenon that will, in 2004, seem disturbingly familiar to Americans who dissent from the policies of the Bush regime.

"I myself was to experience how easily one is taken in by a lying and censored press and radio in a totalitarian state," Shirer wrote. "Though unlike most Germans I had daily access to foreign newspapers . . . and though I listened regularly to the BBC and other foreign broadcasts, my job necessitated the spending of many hours a day in combing the German press, checking the German radio, conferring with Nazi officials and going to party meetings. It was surprising and sometimes consternating to find that notwithstanding the opportunities I had to learn the facts and despite one's inherent distrust of what one learned from Nazi sources, a steady diet over the years of falsifications and distortions made a certain impression on one's mind and often misled it."

Shirer then recounted how, in conversations with his German friends and strangers he would meet in cafes and beer halls, "I would meet with the most outlandish assertions from seemingly educated and intelligent persons. It was obvious they were parroting some piece of nonsense they had heard on the radio or read in the newspapers.

"Sometimes one was tempted to say as much, but on such occasions one was met with such a stare of incredulity, such a shock of silence, as if one had blasphemed the Almighty, that one realized how useless it was even to try to make contact with a mind which had become warped and for whom the facts of life had become what Hitler and Goebbels, with their cynical disregard for truth, said they were."

I will never forget the shock of recognition I felt when I first read those words several years ago, nor my first thought when I looked up from the page: "This happens to me all the time." It wouldn't be surprising if many of you reading this now have just had the same thought.

This would be particularly true for those among you whom the American media, with increasing frequency, describe as "conspiracy theorists:" those who suspect that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have more to do with oil than with any humanitarian or security motives; or those who question the omissions in the 9/11 Commission's report, and think that the 9/11 tragedy had more to do with the Bush/Saudi connection and neoconservative imperial ambitions than with America being "hated for its freedom"; or those who believe that American media are the finely-tuned propaganda organs of the military-industrial complex which, rather than failing their journalistic responsibilities, are doing an excellent job of keeping the American public confused and uninformed; or even the overwhelming majority of Americans who subscribe to the event that made the term "conspiracy theory" mainstream: that the CIA was directly involved in the assassination of JFK.

Among that last group, it is exceedingly rare for members of what used to be called "the establishment" to go public with their private suspicions about what happened in Dallas in November 1963. So it took a real act of courage for David Talbot, editor and publisher of the quasi-respectable website Salon.com, to stick his neck out recently by expressing his own doubts about the legitimacy of the official report of the Warren Commission.

The most valuable contribution Talbot makes in his lengthy article, "The mother of all coverups," published last week at Salon, is compiling from various sources a list of public figures who also had suspicions about the JFK assassination?a list that includes Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Dan Rather, Gary Hart, Richard Russell (a member of the Warren Commission himself), Nikita Krushchev, Charles DeGaulle, the House Select Committee on Assassinations (which produced the only other official report on JFK's death, concluding that it was "probably" the result of a conspiracy), and Jackie and Bobby Kennedy.

In fact, it is reasonable to speculate that Bobby Kennedy's indications to his closest associates that, should he become president, he intended to reopen the investigation into his brother's death, may explain his own suspicious murder.

Because it reinforces some questions I've raised in previous articles for Online Journal ("Paranoid shift" and "Secret admirers: the Bushes and the Washington Post") it's also worthwhile to reproduce in full one of Talbot's paragraphs, about another public figure who has been connected to the string of events beginning with the Bay of Pigs operation and ending in Dallas:

"Among those in Washington who were particularly curious about the revelations concerning the CIA and the Kennedy assassination was George H.W. Bush. As Kitty Kelley observes in her new book about the Bush family, while serving as CIA director in the Ford administration, Bush fired off a series of memos in fall 1976, asking subordinates various questions about Oswald, Ruby, Helms and other figures tied to the assassination. 'Years later, when [Bush] became president of the United States, he would deny making any attempt to review the agency files on the JFK assassination,' writes Kelley in The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty. 'When he made this claim, he did not realize that the agency would release 18 documents (under the Freedom of Information Act) that showed he had indeed, as CIA director, requested information?not once, but several times?on a wide range of questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination.'"

The dark thread of secret agendas and unspeakable acts that runs like a subterranean stream through the last half-century of American history?and which has turned into a river under this most secretive of presidential administrations?would not have been possible without the outright cooperation of the media. Despite the majority opinion that the Warren Report was a "whitewash," Talbot correctly notes that "there is one sanctuary where the Warren Report is still stubbornly upheld and where its manifold critics can expect their own rough treatment: in the towers of the media elite."

What is true of the media's treatment of Warren Commission critics can be equally applied to anyone who questions what is sometimes called the media's "metanarrative"?the official media version of events. Usually this is accomplished by what Catholic theologians call "the sin of omission." So, for example, the startling and uncomfortable fact that a Zogby poll found that half of New York City residents believe that the US government either had foreknowledge of, or was complicit in, the 9/11 attacks has been quickly stuffed into the media's "memory hole." The revelations of FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds about the 9/11 drug connection, and of Senator Bob Graham about the connections between the 9/11 hijackers and the Saudi government, have received similar treatment.

But the great irony in the media's rejection of "conspiracy theory" is that the metanarrative requires mainstream news consumers to subscribe to a far less credible "coincidence theory."

By this theory, it is nothing more than "coincidence" that the membership of a neoconservative think tank, whose ambitions for a global American empire depend on public opinion being swayed by "a new Pearl Harbor," stole their way into power and occupy key positions in the Bush regime. It is merely a "coincidence" that unnamed persons cashed in big time in trading United and American Airlines stocks in the week before 9/11. It's entirely "coincidental" that the FBI supervisor who blocked the investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui's computer, containing information about the hijacker's 9/11 plans, got a $25,000 bonus.

In the media's metanarrative, the incontestable facts that Persian Gulf oil has been central to American strategic planning since World War II, and that Dick Cheney's secret energy task force generated maps of Iraq's oil fields in early 2001, have absolutely nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. It's just a serendipitous "coincidence."

And the statement by the late CIA director William Colby that the CIA controls "everyone of major significance in the major media" is just the incoherent rambling of a guilt-burdened covert operative with too much blood on his hands. If that statement offers a better explanation of a long, consistent pattern of journalistic failings than the idea that reporters are the victims of the government's "Jedi Mind Tricks"?well, it's only a "coincidence."

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister, once said, "Give me control of the German media, and I can control the German people." It is our generation's misfortune that Goebbels' ideological descendants are now in the White House. It is our generation's responsibility to remove them.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Uncommon Sense: Conspiracy and other theories [Re: ekomstop]
    #3197191 - 09/29/04 09:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ekomstop, PLEASE include a link to these things when you cut and paste them. I get tired of searching for them myself.

To save you time, I'll post the link to that last one myself, but I expect you to do it the next time.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/092404Hasty/092404hasty.html



pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineekomstop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Uncommon Sense: Conspiracy and other theories [Re: Phred]
    #3197343 - 09/29/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ahh, shit, thought i had it in there..my appologies


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 10 days
Re: Uncommon Sense: Conspiracy and other theories [Re: ekomstop]
    #3197388 - 09/29/04 10:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This would be particularly true for those among you whom the American media, with increasing frequency, describe as "conspiracy theorists:" those who suspect that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have more to do with oil than with any humanitarian or security motives; or those who question the omissions in the 9/11 Commission's report, and think that the 9/11 tragedy had more to do with the Bush/Saudi connection and neoconservative imperial ambitions than with America being "hated for its freedom"; or those who believe that American media are the finely-tuned propaganda organs of the military-industrial complex which, rather than failing their journalistic responsibilities, are doing an excellent job of keeping the American public confused and uninformed;

There's a distinct possibility that these things are all true. To spin these things into an NWO style conspiracy, still takes quite a bit of creative thinking.

You should read some Chomsky. He does a good job of explaining how the media gets its flaws and biases without having to invent secret alliances of world leaders and businessmen. The media is designed by people with money, for people with money. They report on the stories with the greatest economic effect. Their reporting about politics is also based on what politicians discuss.

By this theory, it is nothing more than "coincidence" that the membership of a neoconservative think tank, whose ambitions for a global American empire depend on public opinion being swayed by "a new Pearl Harbor," stole their way into power and occupy key positions in the Bush regime.

Quite possibly. Thousands of conservative pundits have written millions of pages about pretty much everything under the sun. Is it entirely possible that one of them, at some point, made the rather slimey assertion that a 9/11ish national disaster would be beneficial? Yes.

It is merely a "coincidence" that unnamed persons cashed in big time in trading United and American Airlines stocks in the week before 9/11"

Could be. People make lots of money in the stock market all the time. Just because some anonymous people cashed out at the right time doesn't mean they were tipped off. Or maybe... they were connected to the terrorists, and not the US government.

It's entirely "coincidental" that the FBI supervisor who blocked the investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui's computer, containing information about the hijacker's 9/11 plans, got a $25,000 bonus.

Maybe. Why was the investigation "blocked"? What exactly does "blocked" mean? Do we have any other information about this FBI supervisor, what other things did he do/was he invovled in? How common are $25,000 bonuses for FBI supervisors? Unless you can answer those questions, you can't discount the possibility that this is a completely meaningless fact that has been misrepresented to sound suspicious.


In the media's metanarrative, the incontestable facts that Persian Gulf oil has been central to American strategic planning since World War II, and that Dick Cheney's secret energy task force generated maps of Iraq's oil fields in early 2001, have absolutely nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. It's just a serendipitous "coincidence."


I haven't actually seen the mainstream media do much to refute the idea that the war in Iraq is about oil. In fact, I've seen many mainstream columnists discuss this idea. (Still the same type of criticism I used before can be applied to this "coincidence". Where else did Cheney's 'secret' (how do we know so much about it, then?) task force analyze oil fields? Alaska? The rest of middle east? Plus, there's certainly no doubt that the fact that this was done before the invasion of Iraq isn't necessarily that suspicious. The whole Iraq thing has really been going on since 1991, if not long before that.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 10 days
Re: Uncommon Sense: Conspiracy and other theories [Re: Phluck]
    #3197392 - 09/29/04 10:17 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

"The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed....In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon."


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Why the media's conspiracy theory is better than yours
( 1 2 all )
ekomstop 2,580 31 09/23/04 05:27 PM
by ekomstop
* conspiracy theories chaospilot 816 14 08/24/05 09:52 PM
by chaospilot
* Conspiracy theories
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Learyfan 3,469 60 02/17/04 04:53 PM
by TheOneYouKnow
* poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Annapurna1
7,815 147 07/04/06 12:05 AM
by David_vs_Goliath
* Conspiracy Theories: JFK vs. 9/11
( 1 2 all )
Annapurna1
2,316 30 11/25/03 05:37 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* The No-Conspiracy Theory ekomstop 585 5 09/14/04 01:46 PM
by Moonshoe
* THE BUSH CONSPIRACY THEORY GENERATOR
( 1 2 all )
Los_Pepes 2,056 22 08/09/05 08:02 AM
by SneezingPenis
* Conspiracy Theories You Believe In
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
spud 3,872 91 08/03/05 08:16 AM
by iambobby

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
545 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 13 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Marijuana Demystified
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.084 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.