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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: Epigallo]
    #6326982 -

bradleycny said:
The correlation between cannabis and schizophrenia is undeniable. Dogmatic defenders of cannabis always argue that schizophrenics self medicate with marijuana and that it causes no psychosis.



I don't think this is true at all.

The problem with all of these studies is that they spit out correlation and assume causation.

Now, I'm not saying that schizophrenics are massively self-medicating, that seems silly.  But there's a HUGE middle ground.  For example, as the link you posted states, the correlation exists not just between cannabis and schizophrenia, but between the entire range of street drugs and schizophrenia.

So I ask you, which is more likely under Occam's Razor: dozens of different chemicals which all react with different parts of the brain in dozens of different ways all happening to cause schizophrenia OR schizophrenics having a compulsion to try any and all drugs as a condition of the disease?  Were it the case that schizophrenics have a penchant for trying drugs in general (similar to how people with OCD all tend to focud on cleanliness), you would get the exact same results from the studies as you would if cannabis was actually a cause and not a symptom.

The exact same reasoning can apply to their numbers regarding people with a history of mental illness.  Keep in mind that there isn't actually a "6% chance" of you developing schizophrenia, they don't actually know that.  They only know that 6% of population A has schizophrenia versus 60% of population B, and then they attempt to draw conclusions.  However, if a desire to consume drugs (or it could be something else, perhaps a particular weakness to peer pressure) is infact a symptom of schizophrenia, then population B merely exhibited the symptom, and they are not actually in their own category.

Not everyone who gets the flu has a sore throat, if not everyone who has schizophrenia has a penchant for teenage drug use, that wouldn't be unusual either even if it was a major symptom.

If you wanted to develop a responsible study, you'd have to show two things: 1) What the total number of schizophrenics who use drugs looks like over time compared to the total schizophrenic population and 2) What the percentage of the cannabis using population that had schizophrenia did during that same period of time.

None of the medical studies to date have looked at both sides of this question, and so none of them have yet to adequately prove anything.

Then again, maybe I'm just jealous because I study economics and most economists are held to a higher level of statistical analysis than people who research in the "hard" sciences.  :tongue:

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: Economist]
    #6327451 -

Maybe you should see another doctor...

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: Maverick]
    #6327703 -

Psychosis is one of the acute, not chronic effects of cannabis. It is very unlikely that cannabis has anything to do with the way you are feeling now. Also, the symptoms you give sound nothing like psychosis- which is partial or complete detachment from reality. It is possible that you have an infected thyroid gland, as this can produce similar symptoms.

Regarding cannabis and schizophrenia, my own research and that of others suggests that being stoned and suffering from schizophrenia is subjectively very similar visually. Almost every visual test found sensitive to schizophrenics produces almost exactly the same results after marijuana consumption. Something to think about....


--------------------
Reality is just ONE of the states of conscious perception.

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: TurricaN]
    #6327850 -

geez, it could be extremely easy all this is is some sort of infection/flu/virus that this guy has picked up, it doesn't have to be the weed. If it actually were the weed (which you've stopped for two months, no?) then i'd say there's something wrong with you not smoking weed

and btw, what do you mean difficulty in concentration at your work? you seem fine to be able to post here at the shryummery without the communication skills of a two year old gangster from the hood

IMHO you should definately ditch this doctor and start seeing a new one. Remember, if this is the kind of person who would jump at something like cannabis-induced psychosis when you're just complaining of a headache, concentration and sinus problems, she's got quite an ass she's sitting on

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: takk]
    #6332869 -

Thanks guys...

Actually, what I meant by "lack of concerntration" seemed to be more to do with social interaction. I have no problems programming complex algorithms or writing lengthy paragraphs, but as soon as I'm sitting in a meeting, listening to a colleague explaining something or talking with a friend, my mind just seems to be all over the place.

That said, in the last few days, the problem seems to be gradually going away by itself.

I think I'm going to stay off the weed for good... I've always felt that weed was doing me more harm than mushrooms; the mushroom experience always feels much "cleaner" to me (I don't want to start a "Which is more worse for you?" war, so I'll remind everyone that this view probably only applies to me, and as they say, YMMV).

I'm unsure also whether to cancel my plans to visit a Shaman in March next year for an Ayahuasca session. I'll probably stay totally clean for a while.

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: TurricaN]
    #6333640 -

very true
do what you feel is most right for you
being clean for a while will give you balance :peace:

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? *DELETED* [Re: Revelation]
    #6333873 -

Post deleted by Ferris

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------

Discuss Politics

Edited by Ferris (12/04/06 06:45 PM)

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: Ferris]
    #6334996 -

I know what that lady means by thinking tht messages are for you. I think that this is simple a choice though - you are makign the choice to hear what's going on and relating it to your personal experience. Is there any evidence to say that you would not do the same exact thing, subconciously, if you were focused on doing something else? Why is it such a big deal so long as you have a concious knowledge of the important stuff going on?

I also know what hse means by things looking bigger than they are. I think that, on weed, you have a tendency to focus differently with your eyesight because your muscles get relaxed. Well, you are still capable of focusing your eyes on stuff and, for me personally, that is a cool thing to do. I would often stare at something, trying to grasp the geometry or the color or something cool about it, and, when I shut my eyes, I'll see a picture of the thing I was focusing on in my head, which takes up my entire focus - even if it was just a small detail in the big picture that I was previously looking at. I don't see this as a problem either, necessarily speaking.

I think it's good th at you decided to quit, or atleast abstain from cannabis for the time being. It will give you some perspective on how it effects you. I feel like it is a pretty big deal when you consider that cannabis can have such an effect on how you experience stuff. I think that it has alot to do with your emotions. People who abuse weed have more of a tendency to appreciate that fact. I feel that one shouldn't abuse weed as a lifestyle. Everyone goes a little overboard sometimes, but you cannot resort to being a stoner with no ill effects. Just to be clear, a stoner is someone who would primarily focus on getting high almost every day. There is just no way to do that when you have a life.

P.S. The throat cliccking is an indicator of your posture. Those are probably the bones in the front of your throat shifting. It happens because lots of tension builds up in your torso and your neck ends up getting a little smooshed. =) Pushups are a good way to fix that. Exercise in general.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.

Edited by hobbitcg (12/05/06 01:53 AM)

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #6339158 -

I often have the "things looking bigger" effect from mushrooms, but never from weed. Weed just makes things look "different".

Most of the time I would use cannabis, I would use it alone in my room, lying down whilst listening to music. These were pretty intense experiences because I'm quite sensitive to cannabis.

You're probably on to something with posture and the clicking... Sitting in front of a computer for hours every day is probably not good for my posture.

Anyways, I went back to the doc yesterday... She didn't even mention psychosis this time (she might have noticed my voice recorder taking evidence of the meeting and therefore decided to be more honest with me) and said that my pupils are reacting faster than before... Seems the problem is going away by itself. She still wants me to go back in a month though.

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: Economist]
    #6339535 -

Everything (well, maybe not everything) does look a little different when high. especially when i got outside, nature interests me.

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: Limerick]
    #6339979 -

Everything looks more "trippy" to me when I'm high on weed, which is strange, because when I'm high on mushrooms, everything looks less trippy (like MilkDrop - it just looks more natural and makes more sense on mushrooms)... Probably explains why I prefer darkness / plain environments when I'm on mushrooms.

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Re: Psychosis from cannabis? [Re: TurricaN]
    #15715693 -

It seriously fucked my brain up.  I just didn't know when enough was enough.  It's 100% my fault for not realizing pots negative effects on me sooner.  I became a recluse, forgot most common knowledge and now can't interact with people.  I feel like a fucking zombie.  This is terrible.  I'm 24 and I feel like an infant.

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