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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673172 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
A female atheist high school student in a public shool got a judge to order the removal of a prayer banner. So how did her fellow self-proclaimed Christian peers react? Read the full ugliness here.

The poor girl was forced to transfer schools because of the threats of physical violence.


This must be one of the few things I like about living in Norway. Here people are harassed for being religious.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: blingbling]
    #15673175 -

blingbling said:
iThink said:
No, but if I were an individual in one of those groups I would only consider joining in protest if the movement had become big already. What about all of the people who stood up for their rights that never got to see any change come of it? Were they better off spending their whole lives in discontent with nothing to show for it?


i think this is the attitude of most people regardless of what they would have you believe. there needs to be a lot of institutions in place before a group can be "freed". for example, if slavery was still the only way to be competitive in the global market place we would still be engaging in it no matter who stands up for their rights. of course the first people who stand up for their rights are generally the ones who get the short end of the stick, which is what the young woman in question is experiencing, but they also pave the way for the majority to take action. if someone want's to stand up for their rights they should pick their battles carefully and make sure the correct social institutions are in place so that their dissidence actually makes a difference. if this young lady really believes in her cause then she must be ecstatic that her protest is getting worldwide attention.


Well said. :thumbup:


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: millzy]
    #15673198 -

millzy said:
lol, the kkk is not a "christian organization". they may put a christian slant on their rhetoric but they aren't given any recognition or endorsement by legitimate churches and christian organizations. you're funny orgone.


What is a 'legitmate' church and how is that determined? Is Mormonism a legitimate branch of Christianity?


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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673206 -

I'm not trying to score points dude. If that's what you thought the think about it sounded like. I just literally wanted you to think about it.

So is your point now that the KKK are the face of Christianity? It seems like you've got a bee in your bonnet about Christianity and nothing is going to make you change your mind. And i understand that. That's cool. You've probably had some really shitty experiences. I'm not in a place to tell you what to think. I know some Lebanese Catholics. They are lovely, chill people. Probably some of the loveliest people i know. Would i really press the issue with somone who had been fiddled with by a Catholic priest? No.

I just think i see things a certain way. I think there's a mass anti Christian thing going on and admittedly a lots of it is deserved. But a lot of it seems so skewed.

Have i ever met a Christian living in a Christian country that was a Nutter? No I haven't. My personal experiences have been nothing but good. I've experienced racism but i've never heard the perpetrators citing Christ or the bible as a reason for it. So when i hear a whole bunch of crazy Christians in the USA getting nutty i wonder if it's a side effect of some particularly American thing.

I don't really know what you want or if you're aiming for something by trying to wrote off all Christians.


People can be nutty. A bunch of teenagers in the council estate i grew up on used to walk around with crowbars and makeshift weapons trying to beat the crap out of each other. Life is life. Absolutes when describing a people are rarely accurate in my experience. But then being a British Pakistani, heretical Muslim woman who grew up in government housing i've probably hady fair share of assumptions thrown on me. Such is life.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: DieCommie]
    #15673216 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
lol, the kkk is not a "christian organization". they may put a christian slant on their rhetoric but they aren't given any recognition or endorsement by legitimate churches and christian organizations. you're funny orgone.


There are no 'legitimate' or 'illegitimate' christian churches.  Who are you to say that the christiantily espoused by the KKK is not illegitimate?  They sure seem like a christian organization to me.


putting theology aside, the rcc, the greek orthdox church, the baptist church, the lds church and any other huge denomination or organization that is recognized by the government are what i would call legitimate. i'm going out on a limb here but i don't think the kkk is getting tax breaks. and i equally doubt that they get any high level endorsement from any of the entities mentioned above.

the kkk can tout itself to be whatever it wants, but it is a subversive hate group, and nothing more.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673220 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
What is a 'legitmate' church?


One that preaches your specific flavor of Jesus, what else?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: millzy]
    #15673222 -

millzy said:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
lol, the kkk is not a "christian organization". they may put a christian slant on their rhetoric but they aren't given any recognition or endorsement by legitimate churches and christian organizations. you're funny orgone.


There are no 'legitimate' or 'illegitimate' christian churches.  Who are you to say that the christiantily espoused by the KKK is not illegitimate?  They sure seem like a christian organization to me.


putting theology aside, the rcc, the greek orthdox church, the baptist church, the lds church and any other huge denomination or organization that is recognized by the government are what i would call legitimate. i'm going out on a limb here but i don't think the kkk is getting tax breaks. and i equally doubt that they get any high level endorsement from any of the entities mentioned above.

the kkk can tout itself to be whatever it wants, but it is a subversive hate group, and nothing more.


So attempting to keep gays as second class citizens doesn't classify them as hate groups?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: millzy] * 1
    #15673245 -

millzy said:
any other huge denomination or organization that is recognized by the government are what i would call legitimate.


Wow, really?  Fuck that.  The government is not the arbiter of 'legitimate' religion, and neither are you.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673248 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
millzy said:
lol, the kkk is not a "christian organization". they may put a christian slant on their rhetoric but they aren't given any recognition or endorsement by legitimate churches and christian organizations. you're funny orgone.


What is a 'legitmate' church and how is that determined? Is Mormonism a legitimate branch of Christianity?


from a theological standpoint, i don't think the mormons are christians. i think they're fuckin nuts actually. but from a sociopolitical stance they are a legitimate church in that they are recognized by the government as such. this whole business that's being discussed in this thread is political above anything else, and trying to insert your theological critique into the argument, like a lot of people who espouse your non-belief do, just weakens your position.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: DieCommie]
    #15673253 -

DieCommie said:
Wow, really?  Fuck that.  The government is not the arbiter of 'legitimate' religion, and neither are you.


Actually the bible is the arbiter of legitimate Christianity, and as the bible is full of contradictions and in contradiction with modern science, Christianity is somewhat silly. Just like most of the other religions.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: redpoppy]
    #15673261 -

If I understand you correctly, every evil act by a Christian Church, such as the Inquisition, the suppresion of science, the putting of people in prison for using plants, etc. can all be totally discounted because the perpetrators are not 'real' Christians. Damn, I wish we outsiders had a way of knowing - perhaps if they wore a piece of jewelery in the shape of a cross or something... :tongue:

Funny, but we rarely hear about real and fake atheists. Hmm...

Next month, my evangelical brother will be flying to the UK with the sole purpose of converting Muslims. Seems rather agressive and in-your-face. The total number of atheists flying to the UK to convert Muslims to atheism, I would wager, is very close to zero.


--------------------

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673266 -

Stalin was a fake atheist. :mad:


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: millzy]
    #15673269 -

millzy said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
millzy said:
lol, the kkk is not a "christian organization". they may put a christian slant on their rhetoric but they aren't given any recognition or endorsement by legitimate churches and christian organizations. you're funny orgone.


What is a 'legitmate' church and how is that determined? Is Mormonism a legitimate branch of Christianity?


from a theological standpoint, i don't think the mormons are christians. i think they're fuckin nuts actually. but from a sociopolitical stance they are a legitimate church in that they are recognized by the government as such. this whole business that's being discussed in this thread is political above anything else, and trying to insert your theological critique into the argument, like a lot of people who espouse your non-belief do, just weakens your position.


So let me get this straight for the record, the acts of the members of an organization in defense of that organization, are not a reflection of anything at all concerning that organization? Is this your position?


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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673273 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Funny, but we rarely hear about real and fake atheists. Hmm...


I don't think religion is the main cause of human malevolence. The real cause is probably genetic. Atheistic communist leaders have been the cause of just as much malevolence as religious leaders. Religion and superstition should however be dismissed because it contradicts modern science, not because religious people necessarily are more malevolent than atheistic people.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: DieCommie]
    #15673274 -

iThink said:
So attempting to keep gays as second class citizens doesn't classify them as hate groups?


i think the suppression of gay rights by certain entities, especially the lds, is shameful and unforgivable. in the scope of this discussion, that being a political one, the lds church cannot be compared to the kkk because politically they are two distinctly different things. i'm not defending the lds church, because like i said above, i think they're fuckin maniacs.

DieCommie said:
Wow, really?  Fuck that.  The government is not the arbiter of 'legitimate' religion, and neither are you.


yes, really. from a political stand point the government is the arbiter of what is and isn't a legitimate church.

i get it. you guys hate christians and think they're all crazy. i think a lot of them are crazy too. but this discussion isn't about theology, it's about politics.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: millzy]
    #15673287 -

Quote:
you guys hate christians and think they're all crazy


You don't get it. There is no hatred from me. I don't wish them harm, just want them to stop interfering and trying to press everyone into their clique.

Quote:
but this discussion isn't about theology, it's about politics.


In theory you can separate the two, but not in practice. Do we judge an organization for what is say its principles are or what it actually does?


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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: millzy] * 1
    #15673310 -

millzy said:
DieCommie said:
Wow, really?  Fuck that.  The government is not the arbiter of 'legitimate' religion, and neither are you.


yes, really. from a political stand point the government is the arbiter of what is and isn't a legitimate church.


Who cares about the political stand point?  This is the philosophy forum.  There is no arbiter or 'true' or 'legitimate' religion.  There are individuals, groups of individuals and their espoused beliefs and religion.

You have the gall to call us bigots when it is you who is arbitrarily choosing who is 'legitimate'.  Ridiculous.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673321 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
you guys hate christians and think they're all crazy


You don't get it. There is no hatred from me. I don't wish them harm, just want them to stop interfering and trying to press everyone into their clique.


good for you. so do i.

Quote:
In theory you can separate the two, but not in practice. Do we judge an organization for what is say its principles are or what it actually does?


if the two can't be separated, then why bother with trying to get christians' beliefs out of the public square? if the two are indistinguishable then shouldn't you be siding with christians on this? if this is what you believe then the position you just stated above is non sequitur.

can we judge political entities like individuals for their actions? yes. what's your point? we're seeing individuals, most if not all of whom are idiot teenagers, acting in this situation and not political entities.

the only thing you seem to be sure of is your contempt for christians. i don't think you have a grasp of anything beyond that, because if you did you wouldn't be contradicting yourself and bringing in stuff from way out in left field like this kkk nonsense.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15673327 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
If I understand you correctly, every evil act by a Christian Church, such as the Inquisition, the suppresion of science, the putting of people in prison for using plants, etc. can all be totally discounted because the perpetrators are not 'real' Christians. Damn, I wish we outsiders had a way of knowing - perhaps if they wore a piece of jewelery in the shape of a cross or something... :tongue:

Funny, but we rarely hear about real and fake atheists. Hmm...

Next month, my evangelical brother will be flying to the UK with the sole purpose of converting Muslims. Seems rather agressive and in-your-face. The total number of atheists flying to the UK to convert Muslims to atheism, I would wager, is very close to zero.



SWEET! Maybe I can meet him at the airport? :laugh:

I'm not saying that the crusaders, the Spanish inquisition, et al were not Christian. I am simply saying no facet of such a vast and diverse religion can be considered it's epitome.

I actually do think it's sweet that guy is coming over. He's trying to have souls. But then I'm not. as you can clearly see, I don't take these things very seriously.

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Re: The face of Christianity exposed (again)! [Re: DieCommie]
    #15673340 -

DieCommie said:
Who cares about the political stand point?  This is the philosophy forum.  There is no arbiter or 'true' or 'legitimate' religion.  There are individuals, groups of individuals and their espoused beliefs and religion.

You have the gall to call us bigots when it is you who is arbitrarily choosing who is 'legitimate'.  Ridiculous.


removing religious iconography from schools is a political issue, hence this is a discussion about politics. the fact this is taking place in the philosophy forum is irrelevant. and again, you're not seeing that i'm pointing out an obvious and undeniable political fact that pertains to this discussion. the government has a say in what is and isn't a legitimate church. whether or not that's right doesn't have anything to do with the situation we're talking about.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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