Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]
Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor
    #15241018 -

so i'm kind of pissed that CEOs make 325:1 on average worker pay....

let's say I am a CEO...

how do I gauge fairly what each individual should earn?

part of me says that if a company feels the need to hire an additional worker than that worker is just as valuable as the rest. why not split the pie evenly for all workers and capital investors?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: curious mouse]
    #15241187 -

Somebody who believes they need to earn more because of their administrative position are imposing a hierarchy of violence, assuming that the people subject to administration are imposing the same mindset of violent competitiveness. But it is a feedback loop upon itself because the assumed hierarchy creates the illusion of hierarchy to everybody else. All of the people involved, by believing in this hierarchy, contribute to the belief that the people higher on the hierarchy have the right and power to act violently to those lower on the hierarchy for whatever reason they deem valid. Issues with centralized power as I see it.

There is such a thing as a democratic business model though, which pays fairly if not equally and power is distributed fairly if not equally among company constituents.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: curious mouse]
    #15241330 -

curious mouse said:
so i'm kind of pissed that CEOs make 325:1 on average worker pay....




why?

Quote:
why not split the pie evenly for all workers and capital investors?


Because it would be unfair and people wouldn't put up with it. Its actually more fair to pay people what they are worth. For example if Joe is twice as productive as Sam but they get paid the same, wouldn't that be unfair?

Quote:
how do I gauge fairly what each individual should earn?


Why does it matter? In Western countries we have such great prosperity that the market value wage should be more than enough. Or are you concerned that your employees won't be able to buy themselves jewelry, trendy cloths, movie tickets, ipods and other forms of entertainment?

The real money problem as I see it is that people are delusional and unhappy so they don't realize the wealth they have and waste it on spoon fed entertainment. 

Edited by Freedom (10/18/11 12:01 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: Freedom]
    #15241949 -

Quote:
how do I gauge fairly what each individual should earn?


Can you?
=
Quote:
hire an additional worker - that worker is just as valuable as the rest - split the pie evenly for all workers and capital investors


but sadly ..
Quote:
All of the people involved, by believing in this hierarchy, contribute to the belief that the people higher on the hierarchy have the right and power to act violently to those lower on the hierarchy for whatever reason they deem valid.



Quote:
Why does it matter? In Western countries we have such great prosperity that the market value wage should be more than enough.


Ya, who cares about equality of abundance, and freedom of resources.

Quote:
Or are you concerned that your employees won't be able to buy themselves jewelry, trendy cloths, movie tickets, ipods and other forms of entertainment?



Well, rightfully so.. Anyone at the top of a hierarchy aught to be concerned about the fulfillment of those under it, because there are far more of them then you, and it wouldnt be good to upset them too much..

But as you say-
Quote:
people are delusional and unhappy so they don't realize the wealth they have and waste it on spoon fed entertainment.


Though I cant agree with you that that is
Quote:
The real money problem



Ultimately, in the current monetary economic system we are in, the people that fill the jobs that do first two layers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs aught to be paid the most-

Firstly IMO, the Farmers..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: curious mouse] * 1
    #15242203 -

curious mouse said:
so i'm kind of pissed that CEOs make 325:1 on average worker pay....

let's say I am a CEO...

how do I gauge fairly what each individual should earn?

part of me says that if a company feels the need to hire an additional worker than that worker is just as valuable as the rest. why not split the pie evenly for all workers and capital investors?



Just become a CEO and I can pretty much assure you, you won't give a shit about what the others make anymore.  It's just that simple right?  Or you could just become one and then share the money if that makes you feel good.

Oh wait, becoming a CEO takes work and knowledge.  Damn!:mad2:  I thought I had a solution for you there. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: Icelander]
    #15242280 -

Quote:
Oh wait, becoming a CEO takes work and knowledge.  Damn!  I thought I had a solution for you there. ]


Good point. It likely doesn't take 325 times more work and knowledge though.

IMO many CEO's earn far too much and it's really quite disgusting to see so much money thrown at a single person while something like 1/3 of the world's population live below the poverty line.

Consider that Barrack Obama earns a salary of $400 000/y  while Laurence Ellison earns $192.2M/y (as of 2008.)

So effectively the guy who makes the decisions for some business earns 480 times as much money yearly as the guy who makes the decisions for the country that business operates within. :lol:

Edited by birdland (10/18/11 09:10 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantifying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: curious mouse]
    #15242290 -

curious mouse said:
so i'm kind of pissed that CEOs make 325:1 on average worker pay....

let's say I am a CEO...

how do I gauge fairly what each individual should earn?





Wages are sometimes gauged based on a cost of living assessment in the area and in comparison to the wages of other employees in similar positions in different organizations.  If there is found to be a dearth or abundance of potential employees available, further squeezing or incentivizing may occur as needed to git 'er done.  There are consulting firms which make a business of carrying out such studies for employers.

Of course, there are other methods such as performance or production-based compensation.  It really depends on the needs and resources of the organization, legal boundaries for compensation, the quality of employee they hope to attract, and the inclinations of the decision-makers. 


Quote:
part of me says that if a company feels the need to hire an additional worker than that worker is just as valuable as the rest. why not split the pie evenly for all workers and capital investors?



If I'm managing a company and advertise the need for a driver and 200 qualified people apply for the job, then advertise the need for a mechanic and 10 qualified people apply, then advertise for an engineer with ten years of management experience and one person applies, can they all be considered just as valuable?  What if noone applies for the management position?  Someone's gotta do it!  How do I entice them to take on this burden for me?  :money:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: birdland]
    #15242361 -

birdland said:
Quote:
Oh wait, becoming a CEO takes work and knowledge.  Damn!  I thought I had a solution for you there. ]


Good point. It likely doesn't take 325 times more work and knowledge though.

IMO many CEO's earn far too much and it's really quite disgusting to see so much money thrown at a single person while something like 1/3 of the world's population live below the poverty line.

Consider that Barrack Obama earns a salary of $400 000/y  while Laurence Ellison earns $192.2M/y (as of 2008.)

So effectively the guy who makes the decisions for some business earns 480 times as much money yearly as the guy who makes the decisions for the country that business operates within. :lol:



There will always be disparities.  I think it's obscene myself but their share holders don't so it's none of my business. If I don't like it I can personally boycott their products.  Obama btw is a very rich dude.  He doesn't need his presidential salary.

Most middle class people could do amazingly well were they fiscally responsible. They're not and they don't and they bitch at others as the cause.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: Icelander]
    #15242490 -

Yeah I agree with all that and I just used Obama's presidential salary as an example but I know he's super rich, he has other income sources as well.

I certainly agree that most middle class people are more than capable of living comfortable and secure lives. :smile2:

Only thing I'd add to what you said is that share holders don't necessarily agree with their CEO's enormous salary. In a LSO decisions like that are limited to the very top of the business where the stakeholders there often don't have a great perspective of how money gets allocated. (being very wealthy themselves)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: birdland]
    #15242538 -

The super rich have always been with us and it was much worse in past history mostly.  America has been in a bubble for the last several generations and the young don't realize that this drama has gone on and will likely go on as long as humans go on.  The trick imo is to make whatever is happening to work for yourself and your family if you have one.  I've done that and although I really don't like or agree with how humans behave I realize it is perfectly natural for our animal species to act this way.  And so I worked a way to basically beat the system at it's own game.  I'm pretty set for the rest of my life and retired at 55.  I know how to live on a budget and so I have plenty and the whole thing will have to crash before I'm fucked.  And I'm ok with that too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: Icelander]
    #15242552 -

Quote:
The super rich have always been with us and it was much worse in past history mostly.

True dat

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: birdland]
    #15242904 -

System energy efficiency;

Solar energy input: useful work ratio = total intelligent meritocracy

Then you have to define "useful", easiest definition = that which sustains life more efficiently

It has always been this way. But the structure of the meritocracy itself evolves. Even meritocracy evolves according to meritocracy.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: crkhd]
    #15243964 -

Quote:
Consider that Barrack Obama earns a salary of $400 000/y  while Laurence Ellison earns $192.2M/y (as of 2008.)


Ya, but just imagine all the money he gets slipped in promos, incentives, and special treatment.. that we don't see.. @.@


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: curious mouse]
    #15243993 -

Athelete vs. Teacher wages is where my frustration stands.


--------------------


:sunny::peace::sunny::

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #15244138 -

The CEO will pay as little as he can get away with, and will try to get as much as possible for himself. The United States is all about money on pretty much every level. Nobody cares about making things better, they care about making them more cost-effective. We certainly should not put our trust in these corporations who will do everything they can to get as much money as possible. We allow all this madness to occur. They keep us seperate and entertained, and everything falls into place for them. Entire generations are now polluted with this consumer mindset that we will never shake. We will forget the useful skills that allow us to survive WITHOUT our "consumer womb" and only possess skills that allow us to be effective employees. You know, humans really are pathetic. We allow all of this to happen, by continuing to buy all these bullshit products that we don't NEED.

You want a decent wage? Maybe everyone who is getting a raw deal needs to grow a spine, stop going to their crappy jobs that they hate, stop buying products at the store, and just peacefully deny this lifestyle choice.

I decided i am not working another day unless it is for a worthy cause. I decided to go to college instead on grants/loans and focus on learning in school AND on my own to gain some real skills that will help me become self-sufficient.
After I get my degree, I'll go to work in the environmental science field and save most of my income. I'm used to living off less than 12k a year, and i really don't like having a lot of stuff, or spending money on things that don't have a lasting benefit.
I plan to buy a small farm, rig it to be completely off the grid and retire after 10-15 years of work. Then with the money saved, I should have no problem paying my taxes, and providing whatever else I might need, that I can't provide for myself.

This is all assuming everything goes as planned, I know many college graduates have trouble finding careers in their field, but most college graduates are not trying to become scientists or doing something that is actually useful. They are just doing what gets them the most money.

We Americans have our priorities all backwards. We spend rediculous amounts of money on worthless things like "decorations, trinkets, stylish clothes/shoes, expensive foreign cars, houses that are too big and expensive, disposable items, bottled water, jewelry, starfucks coffee, and the list of useless shit goes on on on and on.

My one wish for the human race is that we can return to having the same rights and freedoms as wild animals. Too bad in order for that to happen, our current system would have to completely collapse, and (as really fuckin sad as it may be) millions and millions of people die because the products they relied so heavily on are no longer being produced and they starve.

Everything is all wrong and it drives me nuts.
Ok, i got a little carried away there.

Edited by chrissake (10/18/11 06:21 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: chrissake]
    #15244349 -

My one wish for the human race is that we can return to having the same rights and freedoms as wild animals.

I'd watch what I wished for if I was you.  Animals have the "rights" they can take and hold by force.  They will and do fight and kill  for food, territory and sex.  Nature is red in tooth and claw.  So if you want that kind of free for all you better hope you can whip my ass.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: Icelander]
    #15244424 -

Quote:
My one wish for the human race is that we can return to having the same rights and freedoms as wild animals.

I'd watch what I wished for if I was you.  Animals have the "rights" they can take and hold by force.  They will and do fight and kill  for food, territory and sex.  Nature is red in tooth and claw.  So if you want that kind of free for all you better hope you can whip my ass.



Then technically, we are already there XD


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: chrissake]
    #15246225 -

So you prefer tidal waves of rape and constant tribal warfare to our current society?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: 4896744]
    #15246263 -

iThink said:
So you prefer tidal waves of rape and constant tribal warfare to our current society?


I wouldn't say constant tribal warfare. It's not like all tribes were at each other all the time. Certain areas are known to have been peaceful towards surrounding tribes.

I think not much has really changed today. Maybe it's a little bit better :shrug:, it's pretty hard to tell though since that would be comparing apples and oranges.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Quantiffying Physical vs. Mental Labor [Re: Icelander]
    #15246266 -

Icelander said:
My one wish for the human race is that we can return to having the same rights and freedoms as wild animals.

I'd watch what I wished for if I was you.  Animals have the "rights" they can take and hold by force.  They will and do fight and kill  for food, territory and sex.  Nature is red in tooth and claw.  So if you want that kind of free for all you better hope you can whip my ass.


Nature gives life and takes it away in the blink of an eye am.

The freedom is in the exploration of the boundaries of your freedom :wink:

The picture you paint of your life is the masterpiece you shall present at death.

I find solace knowing that I am literally walking to my own funeral with every step.

It just turns into a serious game of what can die in the awesomest way.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* man v. nature
( 1 2 3 all )		 DividedQuantumM 3,126 42 03/05/18 07:46 PM
by pineninja
* misCONCEPTions involving science; energy doesn't exist
( 1 2 3 all )		 kaiowas 3,710 41 01/14/04 02:34 PM
by kaiowas
* The Physical Aspect of Spirituality exclusive58 1,014 12 03/02/05 05:48 AM
by exclusive58
* Conceptual Evolution And Physical Evolution fireworks_godS 3,382 15 04/19/05 06:33 PM
by entiformatie
* Victim Mentality Anonymous 3,786 2 11/13/04 07:48 PM
by question_for_joo
* H e a v e n chasingstardna 976 12 09/16/03 04:12 AM
by Leonopoly
* Mental Intensity gettinjiggywithit 1,266 17 12/15/04 02:56 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* physicality and metaphysicality the_phoenix 523 0 03/13/05 11:20 AM
by the_phoenix

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,981 topic views. 1 members, 12 guests and 34 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 16 queries.