Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Is the HIV virus a hoax?
    #1490844 - 04/24/03 07:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/kmreason.htm

WHAT CAUSES AIDS?
It's An Open Question

By Charles A. Thomas Jr., Kary B. Mullis, & Phillip E. Johnson

Reason June 1994



Most people believe they know what causes AIDS. For a decade, scientist, government officials, physicians, journalists, public-service ads, TV shows, and movies have told them that AIDS is caused by a retrovirus called HIV. This virus supposedly infects and kills the "T-cells" of the immune system, leading to an inevitably, fatal immune deficiency after an asymptomatic period that averages 10 years or so. Most people do not know-because there has been a visual media blackout on the subject-about a longstanding scientific controversy over the cause of AIDS. A controversy that has become increasingly heated as the official theory's predictions have turned out to be wrong.

Leading biochemical scientists, including University of California at Berkeley retrovirus expert Peter Duesberg and Nobel Prize winner Walter Gilbert, have been warning for years that there is no proof that HIV causes AIDS. The warnings were met first with silence, then with ridicule and contempt. In 1990, for example, Nature published a rare response from the HIV establishment, as represented by Robin A. Weiss of the Institute of Cancer Research in London and Harold W. Jaffe of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Weiss and Jaffe compared the doubters to people who think that bad air causes malaria. "We have . . . been told," they wrote, "that the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) originates from outer space, or as a genetically engineered virus for germ warfare which was tested in prisoners and spread from them. Peter H. Duesberg's proposition that HIV is not the cause of AIDS at all is, to our minds, equally absurd." Viewers of ABC's 1993 Day One special on the cause of AIDS-almost the only occasion on which network television has covered the controversy-saw Robert Gallo, the leading exponent of the HIV theory, stomp away from the microphone in a rage when asked to respond to the views of Gilbert and Duesberg.

Such displays of rage and ridicule are familiar to those who question the HIV theory of AIDS. Ever since 1984, when Gallo announced the discovery of what the newspapers call "HIV, the virus that causes AIDS," at a government press conference, the HIV theory has been the basis of all scientific work on AIDS. If the theory is mistaken, billions of dollars have been wasted-and immense harm has been done to persons who have tested positive for antibodies to HIV and therefore have been told to expect an early and painful death. The furious reactions to the suggestion that a colossal mistake may have been made are not surprising, given that the credibility of the biomedical establishment is at stake. It is time to think about the unthinkable, however, because there are at least three reasons for doubting the official theory that HIV causes AIDS.

First, after spending billions of dollars, HIV researchers are still unable to explain how HIV, a conventional retrovirus with a very simple genetic organization, damages the immune system, much less how to stop it. The present stalemate contrasts dramatically with the confidence expressed in 1984. At that time Gallo thought the virus killed cells directly by infecting them, and U.S. government officials predicted a vaccine would be available in two years. Ten years later no vaccine is in sight, and the certainty about how the virus destroys the immune system has dissolved in confusion.

Second, in the absence of any agreement about how HIV causes AIDS, the only evidence that HIV does cause AIDS is correlation. The correlation is imperfect at best, however. There are many cases of persons with all the symptoms of AIDS who do not have any HIV infection. There are also many cases of persons who have been infected by HIV for more than a decade and show no signs of illness.

Third, predictions based on the HIV theory have failed spectacularly. AIDS in the United States and Europe has not spread through the general population. Rather, it remains almost entirely confined to the original risk groups, mainly sexually promiscuous gay men and drug abusers. The number of HIV-infected Americans has remained constant for years instead of increasing rapidly as predicted, which suggests that HIV is an old virus that has been with us for centuries without causing an epidemic.

No one disputes what happens in the early stages of HIV infection. As other viruses do, HIV multiplies rapidly, and it sometimes is accompanied by a mild, flulike illness. At this stage, while the virus is present in great quantity and causing at most mild illness in the ordinary way, it does no observable damage to the immune system. On the contrary, the immune system rallies as it is supposed to do and speedily reduces the virus to negligible levels. Once this happens, the primary infection is over. If HIV does destroy the immune system, it does so years after the immune system has virtually destroyed it. By then the virus typically infects very few of the immune system' s T-cells.

Before these facts were well understood, Robert Gallo and his followers insisted that the virus does its damage by directly infecting and killing cells. In his 1991 autobiography, Gallo ridiculed HIV discoverer Luc Montagnier's view that the virus causes AIDS only in the company of as yet undiscovered "cofactors." Gallo argued that "multifactorial is multi-ignorance" and that, because being infected by HIV was "like being hit by a truck," there was no need to look for additional causes or indirect mechanisms of causation.

All that has changed. As Warner C. Greene, a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, explained in the September 1993 Scientific American, researchers are increasingly abandoning the direct cell-killing theory because HIV does not infect enough cells: "Even in patients in the late stages of HIV infection with very low blood T4 cell counts, the proportion of those cells that are producing HIV is tiny-about one in 40. In the early stages of chronic infection, fewer than one in 10,000 T4 cells in blood are doing so. If the virus were killing the cells just by directly infecting them, it would almost certainly have to infect a much larger fraction at any one time."

Gallo himself is now among those who are desperately looking for possible co-factors and exploring indirect mechanisms of causation. Perhaps the virus somehow causes other cells of the immune system to destroy T-cells or induces the T-cells to destroy themselves. Perhaps HIV can cause immune-system collapse even when it is no long present in the body. As Gallo put it at an AIDS conference last summer: "The molecular mimicry in which HIV imitates components of the immune system sets events into motion that may be able to proceed in the absence of further whole virus."

But researchers have not been able to confirm experimentally any of the increasingly exotic causal mechanisms that are being proposed, and they do not agree about which of the competing explanations is more plausible. When The New York Times interviewed the government' s head AIDS researcher, Anthony Fauci, in February, reporter Natalie Angier summarized his view as a sort of stew of all the leading possibilities: "It [HIV] overexcites some immune signaling pathways, while eluding the detection of others. And though the main target of the virus appears to be the famed helper T-cells, or CD-4 cells, which it can infiltrate and kill, the virus also ends up stimulating the response of other immune cells so inappropriately that they eventually collapse from overwork or confusion." No other virus is credited with such a dazzling repertoire of destructive skills.

Perhaps it is the HIV scientists who are collapsing from overwork or confusion. The theory is getting ever more complicated, without getting any nearer to a solution. This is a classic sign of a deteriorating scientific paradigm. But as HIV scientists grow ever more confused about how the virus is supposed to be causing AIDS, their refusal to consider the possibility that it may not be the cause is as rigid as ever. On the rare occasions when they answer questions on the subject, they explain that "unassailable epidemiological evidence" has established HIV as the cause of AIDS. In short, they rely on correlation.

The seemingly close correlation between AIDS and HIV is largely an artifact of the misleading definition of AIDS used by the U.S. government' s Centers for Disease Control. AIDS is a syndrome defined by the presence of one or more of 30 independent diseases-when accompanied by a positive result on a test that detects antibodies to HIV. The same disease conditions are not defined as AIDS when the antibody test is negative. Tuberculosis with a positive antibody test is AIDS; tuberculosis with a negative test is just TB.

The skewed definition of AIDS makes a close correlation with HIV inevitable, regardless of the facts. This situation was briefly exposed at the International AIDS Conference in Amsterdam in 1992, when the existence of dozens of suppressed "AIDS without HIV" cases first became publicly known. Instead of considering the obvious implications of these cases for the HIV theory, the authorities at the CDC, who had known about some of the cases for years but had kept the subject under wraps, quickly buried the anomaly by inventing a new disease called ICL (Idiopathic CD4+Lympho-cytopenia)--a conveniently forgettable name that means "AIDS without HIV."

There are probably thousands of cases of AIDS without HIV in the United States alone. Peter Duesberg found 4,621 cases recorded in the literature, 1,691 of them in this country. (Such cases tend to disappear from the official statistics because, once it's clear that HIV is absent, the CDC no longer counts them as AIDS.) In a 1993 article published in Bio/Technology, Duesberg documented the consistent failure of the CDC to report on the true incidence of positive HIV tests in AIDS cases. The CDC concedes that at least 40,000 "AIDS cases" were diagnosed on the basis of presumptive criteria-that is, without antibody testing, on the basis of diseases such as Kaposi's sarcoma. Yet these diseases can occur without HIV or immune deficiency. Perhaps some of the patients diagnosed as having AIDS would have tested negative, or actually did test negative, for HIV. Physicians and health departments have an incentive to diagnose patients with AIDS symptoms as AIDS cases whenever they can, because the federal government pays the medical expenses of AIDS patients under the Ryan White Act but not of persons equally sick with the same diseases who test negative for HIV antibodies.

The claimed correlation between HIV and AIDS is flawed at an even more fundamental level, however. Even if the "AIDS test" were administered in every case, the tests are unreliable. Authoritative papers in both Bio/Technology (June 1993) and the Journal of the American Medical Association (November 27, 1991) have shown that the tests are not standardized and give many "false positives" because they react to substances other than HIV antibodies. Even if that were not the case, the tests at best confirm the presence of antibodies and not the virus itself, much less the virus in an active, replicating state. Antibodies typically mean that the body has fought off a viral infection, and they may persist long after the virus itself has disappeared from the body. Since it is often difficult to find live virus even in the bodies of patients who are dying of AIDS, Gallo and others have to speculate that HIV can cause AIDS even when it is no longer present and only antibodies are left.

Just as there are cases of AIDS without HIV, there are cases of HIV-positive persons who remain healthy for more than a decade and who may never suffer from AIDS. According to Greene's article in Scientific American, "It is even possible that some rare strains [of HIV] are benign. Some homosexual men in the U.S. who have been infected with HIV for at least 11 years show as yet no signs of damage to their immune systems. My colleagues . . .and I are studying these long-term survivors to ascertain whether something unusual about their immune systems explains their response or whether they carry an avirulent strain of the virus."

The faulty correlation between HIV and AIDS would not disprove the HIV theory if there were strong independent evidence that HIV causes AIDS. As we have seen, however, researchers have been unable to establish a mechanism of causation. Nor have they succeeded in confirming the HIV model by inducing AIDS in animals. Chimps have repeatedly been infected with HIV, but none of them have developed AIDS. In the absence of a mechanism or an animal model, the HIV theory is based only upon a correlation that turns out to be primarily an artifact of the theory itself.

In light of the importance of the correlation argument, it is astonishing that no controlled studies have been done for three of the major risk groups: transfusion recipients, hemophiliacs, and drug abusers. Two ostensibly controlled studies involving men's groups in Vancouver and San Francisco purportedly show that AIDS developed only in the HIV-positive men and never in the "control group" of HIV negatives. These studies were designed not to test the HIV theory but to measure the rate at which HIV-positive gay men develop AIDS. They did not compare otherwise similar persons who differ only in HIV status, did not control effectively for drug use, and did not fully report the incidence of AIDS-defining diseases in the HIV-negative men. The research establishment accepted these studies uncritically because they give the HIV theory some badly needed support. But the main point they supposedly prove has already been thoroughly disproved: AIDS does occur in HIV-negative persons.

According to the official theory, HIV is a virus newly introduced into the American population, which has had no opportunity to develop any immunity. It follows that viral infection should spread rapidly, moving from the original risk groups (gays, drug addicts, transfusion recipients) into the general population. This is what the government agencies confidently predicted, and AIDS advertising to this day emphasizes the theme that "everyone is at risk."

The facts are otherwise. AIDS is still confined mainly to the original risk groups, and AIDS patients in the United States are still almost 90-percent male. Health-care workers, who are constantly exposed to blood and bodily fluids of AIDS patients, have no greater risk of contracting AIDS that the population at large. Among millions of health- care workers, the CDC claims only seven or eight (poorly documented) cases of AIDS supposedly developed through occupational exposure. By contrast, the CDC estimates that accidental needle sticks lead to more than 1,500 cases of hepatitis infection each year. Even prostitutes are not at risk for AIDS unless they also use drugs.

Far from threatening the general heterosexual population, AIDS is confined mainly to drug users and gay men in specific urban neighborhoods. According to a 1992 report by the prestigious U.S. National Research Council, "The convergence of evidence shows that the HIV/AIDS epidemic is settling into spatially and socially isolated groups and possibly becoming endemic within them." This factual picture is so different from what the theory predicts, and so threatening to funding, that the AIDS agencies have virtually ignored the National Research Council report and have continued to preach the fiction that "AIDS does not discriminate."

Not only is AIDS mostly confined to isolated groups in a few U.S. cities, but HIV infection is not increasing. Although a virus newly introduced to a susceptible population should spread rapidly, for several years the CDC has estimated that a steady 1 million Americans are HIV positive. Now it appears that the figure of 1 million is finally about to be revised-downward. According to a story by Lawrence Altman in the March 1 New York Times, new statistical studies indicate that only about 700,000 Americans are HIV positive, and the official estimate will accordingly be reduced sometime this summer.

While HIV infection remains steady at this modest level in the United States, World Health Organization officials claim that the same virus is spreading rapidly in Africa and Asia, creating a vast "pandemic" that threatens to infect at least 40 million people by the year 2000, unless billions of dollars are provided for prevention to the organizations sounding the alarm. These worldwide figures, especially from Africa, are used to maintain the thesis that "everyone is at risk" in the United States. Instead of telling Americans that AIDS cases here are almost 90-percent male, authorities say that worldwide the majority of AIDS sufferers are female. With the predictions of a mass epidemic in America and Europe failing so dramatically, AIDS organizations rely on the African figures to vindicate their theory.

But these African figures are extremely soft, based almost entirely on "clinical diagnoses," without even inaccurate HIV testing. What this means in practice is that Africans who die of diseases that have long been common there---especially wasting disease accompanied by diarrhea-are now classified as AIDS victims. Statistics on "African AIDS" are thus extremely manipulable, and witnesses are emerging who say that the epidemic is greatly exaggerated, if it exists at all.

In October 1993, the Sunday Times of London reported on interviews with Philippe and Evelyne Krynen, heads of a 230-employee medical relief organization in the Kagera province of Tanzania. The Krynens had first reported on African AIDS in 1989 and at that time were convinced that Kagera in particular was in the grip of a vast epidemic. Subsequent years of medical work in Kagera have changed their minds. They have learned that what they had thought were "AIDS orphans" were merely children left with relatives by parents who had moved away and that HIV-positive and HIV-negative villagers suffer from the same diseases and respond equally well to treatment. Philippe Krynen's verdict: "There is no AIDS. It is something that has been invented. There are no epidemiological grounds for it; it doesn't exist for us."

Krynen's remark calls attention to the fact that AIDS is not a disease. Rather, it is a syndrome defined by the presence of any of 30 separate and previously known diseases, accompanied by the actual or suspected presence of HIV. The definition has changed over time and is different for Africa (where HIV testing is rare) than for Europe and North America. The official CDC definition of AIDS in the United States was enormously broadened for 1993 in order to distribute more federal AIDS money to sick people, especially women with cervical cancer. As a direct result, AIDS cases more than doubled in 1993. Absent the HIV mystique, there would be no reason to believe that a single factor is causing cervical cancer in women, Kaposi's sarcoma in gay males, and slim disease in Africans.

The HIV paradigm is failing every scientific test. Research based upon it has failed to provide not only a cure or vaccine but even a theoretical explanation for the disease-causing mechanism. Such success as medical science has had with AIDS has come not from the futile attempts to attack HIV with toxic antiviral drugs like AZT but from treating the various AIDS-associated diseases separately. Predictions based on the HIV theory have been falsified or are supported only by dubious statistics based mainly on the theory itself. Yet the HIV establishment continues to insist that nothing is wrong and to use its power to exclude dissenting voices, however eminent in science, from the debate.

Like other leaders of the scientific establishment, Nature Editor John Maddox is fiercely protective of the HIV theory. He indignantly rejected a scientific paper making the same points as this article. When Duesberg first argued his case in 1989 in the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, the editor promised that his paper would be answered by an article defending the orthodox viewpoint. The response never came. The editors of the leading scientific journals have refused to print even the brief statement of the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis, which has over 300 members. The statement notes simply that "many biomedical scientists now question this hypothesis" and calls for "a thorough reappraisal of the existing evidence for and against this hypothesis."

Such a reappraisal would include the following elements:

Genuinely controlled epidemiological studies of all the major risk groups:homosexuals, drug users, transfusion recipients, and hemophiliacs. The studies should employ an unbiased definition of AIDS. Too often we have been told that HIV always accompanies AIDS, only to learn that this is so because AIDS without HIV is named something else. The studies should be performed by persons who are committed to investigating the HIV theory rather than defending it. There is reason to suspect that properly controlled studies of transfusion recipients and hemophiliacs in particular will show that the incidence of AIDS-defining diseases is independent of HIV status.

An audit of the CDC statistics to remove HIV bias and thereby allow unprejudiced testing of the critical epidemiological evidence for the theory. Every effort should be made to determine how many AIDS patients were actually tested for antibodies and the testing method that was employed. Because even the most reliable antibody test generates many false-positive results, researchers should try to validate the tests by examining random samples of AIDS patients to determine whether significant amounts of replicating HIV can be found in their bodies. Statistics have been kept as if the purpose were to protect the HIV theory rather than to learn the truth.

Research focusing on the cause of particular diseases rather than the politically defined hodgepodge of diseases we now call AIDS. The cancer-like skin disease called Kaposi's sarcoma (KS) is one of the best-known AIDS-defining conditions, but leading KS and HIV experts Marcus Conant and Robin Weiss now say that dozens of non-HIV KS cases are under study in the United States and that KS is becoming much less frequent in gay male AIDS patients than it formerly was. Conant, Weiss, and other AIDS researchers now frankly attribute KS to an "unknown infectious agent" rather than to HIV, but KS is nonetheless still called AIDS when it occurs in combination with HIV. Duesberg attributes KS in gay males to the use of amyl nitrates (poppers) as a sexual stimulant. His theory is eminently testable, and it ought to be given a fair chance. Another example: Hemophiliacs in the age of AIDS are living longer than they ever did in the past, but they still often die of conditions related to receipt of the blood concentrate called Factor VIII. Research published in The Lancet in February confirms earlier reports that symptoms diagnosed as AIDS are best treated by providing a highly purified form of Factor VIII. Researchers should study the role of blood-product impurities in causing disease in hemophiliacs, without the distortion that comes from arbitrarily assuming that HIV is responsible whenever an HIV-positive hemophiliac becomes ill.

A critical re-examination of the statistics for AIDS and HIV in Africa and Asia. Researchers should perform new, controlled studies of representative African populations to test the relationship of confirmed HIV infection to the incidence of AIDS-defining diseases. It will not do to rely upon "presumptive diagnoses" or extrapolations from single antibody tests that are now well known to generate many false positives.

The HIV establishment and its journalist allies have replied to various specific criticisms of the HIV theory without taking them seriously. They have never provided an authoritative paper that undertakes to prove that HIV really is the cause of AIDS-meaning a paper that does not start by assuming the point at issue. The HIV theory was established as fact by Robert Gallo's official press conference in 1984, before any papers were published in American journals. Thereafter, the research agenda was set in concrete, and skeptics were treated as enemies to be ignored or punished. As a result, the self-correcting processes of science have broken down, and journalists have not known how to ask the hard questions. After 10 years of failure, it is time to take a second look. *

Charles A. Thomas Jr., a biochemist, is president of the Helicon Foundation in San Diego and secretary of the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis. Kary B. Mullis is the 1993 Nobel Prize winner in chemistry for his invention of the polymerase chain reaction technique, for detecting DNA, which is used to search for fragments of HIV in AIDS patients. Phillip E. Johnson is the Jefferson E. Peyser Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley.



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 15 days
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1490865 - 04/24/03 07:25 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Is his post a prank BH? I know you're not this stupid.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1490899 - 04/24/03 07:36 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

No, why? Has there been some new development I haven't heard of yet?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491100 - 04/24/03 08:47 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Thabo Mbeki cetainly believes this stuff. He bases his policy on it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: wingnutx]
    #1491141 - 04/24/03 09:03 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

A lot of really good scientists believe it. There's more evidence to back this up than global warming, or ozone depletion.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAngry Mycologist
Spontaneouslycombusting

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Galapagos
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491251 - 04/24/03 09:41 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Very interesting.  I'll be up late doing research tonight :smile:  Good find Hitler. 


--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1491356 - 04/24/03 10:20 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I just finished reading  Dancing Naked in the Mind Field by Kary Mullis Ph.D. the Biochemist who got the 1993 Nobel prize for his
invention of the Polymerase Chain Reaction.

Other people may know him as that LSD eating Ph.D dude from the Simpsons trial.  :smirk:

Good book. I bought it a couple of years ago partly because I wanted to read it, and partly because I thought putting it on my bookshelf would make me look smarter.  :smirk: :smirk:


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 15 days
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491385 - 04/24/03 10:29 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

No, why? Has there been some new development I haven't heard of yet?



Only about 20+ years of research and it's going to kill my brother.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1491436 - 04/24/03 10:48 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Does he have AIDS, or is he just HIV+?

What symptoms does he have?

What research that has proven that HIV is the cause of AIDS? Have they even isolated the HIV virus yet, or just the antibodies?

What drugs are they giving him, and what were his symptoms before he started taking those drugs?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491443 - 04/24/03 10:50 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 15 days
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491465 - 04/24/03 10:59 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

HIV, he takes Zerit for it. He'll have to take those pills for as long as he lives, or until the virus adapts to it and kills his immune system.

BabyHitler, if you're confident that HIV doesn't case AIDS would you be willing to infect yourself with the virus?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: ]
    #1491477 - 04/24/03 11:05 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Lots of really good scientists including The Nobel prize winner Kary Mullis (Biochemist) and many many other people with Ph.Ds say there is little evidence linking the virus known as HIV to the disease known as AIDS.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 15 days
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491480 - 04/24/03 11:07 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Are you willing to infect yourself with HIV to prove your point?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1491512 - 04/24/03 11:23 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Sure. Isolate the virus, and bring it on over.  :smirk:

I'm not saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. I'm pointing out that the research doesn't adequately prove that it does.

Having the antibodies for HIV does not prove that the person is infected with the cause of AIDS any more than finding rat hairs on a 14th century Englishman proves that he has the Bubonic plague.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekb73
enthusiast
Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 369
Loc: Abilene, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax?...The CURE FOR AIDS [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1491760 - 04/25/03 12:44 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)


http://www.uspto.gov
http://BoydGraves.com




( 1 of 1 )

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
United States Patent 5,676,977
Antelman October 14, 1997

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Method of curing AIDS with tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystal
devices


Abstract
The diamagnetic semiconducting molecular crystal tetrasilver
tetroxide (Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4) is utilized for destroying the AIDS
virus, destroying AIDS synergistic pathogens and immunity suppressing
moieties (ISM) in humans. A single intravenous injection of the
devices is all that is required for efficacy at levels of about 40
PPM of human blood. The device molecular crystal contains two mono
and two trivalent silver ions capable of "firing" electrons capable
of electrocuting the AIDS virus, pathogens and ISM. When administered
into the bloodstream, the device electrons will be triggered by
pathogens, a proliferating virus and ISM, and when fired will
simultaneously trigger a redox chelation mechanism resulting in
divalent silver moieties which chelate and bind active sites of the
entities destroying them. The devices are completely non-toxic.
However, they put stress on the liver causing hepatomegaly, but there
is no loss of liver function.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Inventors: Antelman; Marvin S. (Rehovot, IL)
Assignee: Antelman Technologies Ltd. (Providence, RI)
Appl. No.: 658955
Filed: May 31, 1996

Current U.S. Class: 424/618; 514/495
Intern'l Class: A61K 033/38
Field of Search: 424/618 514/495



----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

References Cited [Referenced By]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

U.S. Patent Documents
4415565 Nov., 1983 Wysor 424/618.
4915955 Apr., 1990 Gomori 424/616.
4952411 Aug., 1990 Fox, Jr. et al. 424/618.
5073382 Dec., 1991 Antelman 424/604.
5078902 Jan., 1992 Antelman 424/618.
5089275 Feb., 1992 Antelman 424/602.
5211855 May., 1993 Antelman 424/618.
5223149 Jun., 1993 Antelman 424/618.
5336499 Aug., 1994 Antelman 424/405.
5571520 Nov., 1996 Antelman 424/618.



Other References
"Is The AIDS Virus A Science Fiction?" by Peter H. Duesberg and Bryan
J. Ellison, Policy Review, Summer 1990, pp. 40-51.

Primary Examiner: Hulina; Amy
Attorney, Agent or Firm: Salter & Michaelson

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Parent Case Text

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------


This application is a continuation-in-part of patent application Ser.
No. 08/310,859 filed Sep. 22, 1994, now abandoned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Claims

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------


What is claimed is:

1. A method of treating AIDS-afflicted humans comprising injecting a
multitude of tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystals into the
bloodstream of the human subject.

2. A method for increasing white blood cell counts in AIDS-afflicted
humans comprising injecting a multitude of tetrasilver tetroxide
molecular crystals into the bloodstream of the human subject.

3. Methods of treating AIDS-affilicted humans according to claims 1-2
where the concentration of said molecular crystals is approximately
40 PPM of the total blood weight of the human subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Description

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------


BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

The present invention relates to the employment of molecular crystals
as anti-AIDS devices, but more particularly to the molecular crystal
semiconductor tetrasilver tetroxide Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4 which has two
monovalent and two trivalent silver ions per molecule, and which
through this structural configuration enables intermolecular electron
transfer capable of killing viruses and binding them to the resulting
silver entity so that a single intravenous injection will completely
obliterate acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) in humans.
Furthermore, said devices are capable of killing pathogens and
purging the bloodstream of immune suppressing moieties (ISM) whether
or not created by the AIDS virus (HIV); so as to restore the immune
system.

The present invention is based on concepts previously elucidated in
applicant's U.S. Pat. No. 5,336,499 which discloses the destruction
and inhibition of bacteria, algae and the AIDS virus in nutrient life
supporting systems by using said silver oxide devices. Example 3 of
said patent discloses that 18 PPM of said crystal devices could
totally suppress the AIDS virus (page 6, line 5). Subsequent to the
filing of the aforementioned patent, further testing revealed
complete 100% destruction of the AIDS virus in vitro at 20 PPM, and
the fact that said devices were harmless when ingested and inhaled,
being non-toxic.

Encouraged by these evaluations and successes, applicant obtained
permission to evaluate the crystals in vitro against murine acquired
immune deficiency syndrome (MAIDS). Only one facility in the State of
Israel is licensed for these evaluations, namely, the Kaplan Hospital
in Rehovot, Israel, which is affiliated with the Hebrew University-
Hadassah Medical School where said evaluations were done.

The initial evaluations entailed experimenting with various silver
moieties cited in applicant's aforementioned patent, concentrations,
non-reactive buffers and modes of administration. After about 18
months of judicious efforts and initial failures, success was finally
achieved in destroying the MAIDS virus in C57BL mice with a single
intravenous injection. The results of this test program comprise
Example 5 of U.S. Pat. No. 5,336,499. After success with mice, the
inventor was able to test the efficacy of said devices on two select
etiological groups of terminal AIDS patients in a clinic in
Tegucigalpa, Honduras, Central America.

The AIDS patients comprised the etiological subgroups, Candidiasis
and Wasting Syndrome. Current indicator diseases for diagnosing AIDS
which have been expanded by the CDC, fall into the following five
major categories with the approximate percent distribution among AIDS
patients:


______________________________________
1. P. carinii pneumonia
51%
2. Wasting syndrome
19%
3. Candidiasis 13%
4. Kaposi's sarcoma
11%
5. Dementia 6%
______________________________________



This invention concerns itself with the treatment and cure of
candidiasis and wasting syndrome AIDS patients with Tetrasil*. These
two groups account for approximately one third of AIDS cases.

*Trademark of Holipharm Corporation (of Israel) for Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4

Stedman's Medical Dictionary (Williams & Wilken's 26th Ed., 1995)
defines wasting syndrome "as a condition of 10% weight loss in
conjunction with diarrhea or fever . . . Associated with AIDS (p.
1744)."

OBJECTS OF THE INVENTION

The main object of the invention is to provide for a molecular scale
device of a single tetrasilver tetroxide crystalline molecule capable
of restoring the immunity of AIDS afflicted humans of the two AIDS
etiological subgroups, candidiasis and wasting syndrome.

Another object of the invention is to provide for immunity
restoration in said AIDS afflicted humans through a single injection.

Another object of this invention is to destroy ISM in humans
manifesting AIDS diseases of said AIDS etiological subgroups
irrespective as to whether said ISM was HIV induced, since it is
known that humans may manifest AIDS and still be HIV negative, and
thus restore the immune system in said humans.

Another object of this invention is to destroy the AIDS virus when
present in the systems of said AIDS afflicted humans.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

This invention relates to a molecular scale device not only capable
of destroying the AIDS virus, but of purging the human bloodstream of
pathogens and restoring immunity to AIDS patients of the candidiasis
and wasting syndrome categories. Said molecular device consists of a
single crystal of tetrasilver tetroxide (Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4). The
crystal lattice of this molecule has a unique structure since it is a
diamagnetic semiconducting crystal containing two mono and two
trivalent silver ions, which in effect are capable of "firing"
electrons under certain conditions which will destroy AIDS viruses,
other pathogens and immune suppressing moieties (ISM), not only
through the electrocution mode, but also by a binding process which
occurs simultaneously with electron firing, namely, binding and
chelation of divalent silver, i.e., the resulting product of the
electron transfer redox that occur when the monovalent silver ions
are oxidized and the trivalent ions are reduced in the crystal. The
binding/chelation effect occurs at active sites of the AIDS virus,
pathogens and ISM. Because of the extremely minute size of a single
molecule of this crystal, several million of these devices may be
employed in concert to destroy a virus colony to purge a life support
system of ISM and pathogens with the consumption of only parts per
trillion of the crystal devices. Thus an optimum of 40 PPM of the
devices by weight of human blood was found to be sufficient to
completely obliterate AIDS. This concentration is slightly over
double of the optimum concentration recommended in applicant's
aforementioned U.S. patent for the destruction of the human AIDS
virus in vitro. Other details concerning the structure of the crystal
and its mechanism against pathogens, the AIDS virus and ISM would
analogously hold here, and have already been further elucidated in
said patent.

The actual destruction of pathogens, ISM and the AIDS virus is
effectuated by injection of a suspension of these devices in
distilled or deionized water with a non-reacting electrolyte
directly, i.e. intravenously, into the bloodstream. A single
injection is all that is required under these conditions.
Accordingly, humans injected in this manner, upon being inspected
after three weeks or more had elapsed and compared with similar
humans that had been given placebos, were completely cured of AIDS.
The control group still manifested AIDS. Accordingly, the tetrasilver
tetroxide device performed in concert with and in full conformity
with the ultimate objects of this invention. Furthermore, three out
of four wasting syndrome terminal patients and four out of the five
candidiasis terminal patients were still alive in 1995 after a year
and a half had elapsed from their initial injection. By that time all
the AIDS patients had been released from the clinic and allowed to
return home.

Other objects and features of the present invention shall become
apparent to those skilled in the art when the present invention is
considered in view of the accompanying examples. It should, of
course, be recognized that the accompanying examples illustrate
preferred embodiments of the present invention and are not intended
as a means of defining the limits and scope of the present invention.

EXAMPLE 1

Five patients afflicted with AIDS of the candidiasis etiological
category were segregated for Tetrasil treatment. The rationale for
selecting them was based on facts presented in an article by Peter H.
Duesberg and Brian J. Ellison entitled "Is The AIDS Virus A Science
Fiction?" (Policy Review, Summer 1990 pp. 40-51). Only the factual
presentations of the article were utilized and the hypothesis of the
authors was ignored. The facts presented in the article related to
the method of selecting AIDS patients based on the five
aforementioned etiological subgroups targeted by the CDC, and the
evidence presented, that there is AIDS without HIV as well as with it
so that an anti-viral agent in most instances will not necessarily
restore the immunity system.

Evaluations with Tetrasil were conducted on AIDS patients at Lucha
Contra el Sida, Comayaguela, Honduras. The patients two weeks prior
to inoculation were removed from their AZT, AIDS therapy. Tetrasil
was administered at approximately 40 PPM of blood volume per patient
as a suspension in a proprietary buffer solution (pH=6.5), supplied
by Holipharm Corporation.

The results of evaluations with candidiasis are tabulated in Table I
under its disease category. All patients evaluated were terminal.
Some, however, were in moderate (m) condition and others in poor (p)
as designated in the Table. The I and F designations refer to initial
and final values as shown. WBC indicates white cell blood count. The
H column, following CD 8, indicates whether hepatomegaly occurred.
This was an unfortunate consequence of the treatment which resulted
in enlarged livers in all patients except the second one. Despite
hepatomegaly, there was no interference with liver function.

The onset of hepatomegaly was not spontaneous and varied from patient
to patient, being in the range of 4-16 days.

It should also be noted that shortly after injection of Tetrasil
there were indications of fever (symbolized by T in the Ag.sub.4
O.sub.4 column), sometimes accompanied by fatigue (F). The body
temperature was invariably 38.5.degree. C. (101.3.degree. F.). This
was indicative of restoration of the immune response of the body,
since normally the body will destroy pathogens when the immune system
is functional by raising the temperature. The patient who died; first
responded favorably to Diflucan, which previously gave no response.
He was cured of his candidiasis, but unfortunately succumbed to his
previous body damage. All the other candidiasis syndrome people who
previously did not respond to the indicated medications subsequently
responded after the Tetrasil treatment. Further evidence of the
recovery of the AIDS patients manifested itself 30 days after the
initial injection when white blood cell counts were taken. They are
shown in Table I under the WBC column, which gives the initial and
final WBC. All candidiasis patients showed a dramatic increase in
their white blood cell counts, indicative of the restoration of their
immunity systems.

EXAMPLE 2

The above protocol of Example 1 was repeated with AIDS patients
exhibiting wasting syndrome. The results of their treatment are
tabulated in Table I under the disease category of said syndrome. It
should be noted that two of the four wasting syndrome patients showed
improved white blood counts. The female patient, whose condition
improved from poor and terminal to be among the living, showed a
decrease in the WBC. However, she showed an increase in body
temperature which was indicative of immune response. The test results
indicate that one cannot rely on a single factor to indicate the
demise of AIDS. The usual HIV marker CD 4 initial and final are
irrelevant. ISM suppression appears to be more critical than the
destruction of HIV. AIDS was suppressed, any permanent damage that
had been done to the patients in the course of their succumbing to
AIDS was not obviously cured or corrected by said crystal device
treatment, rather said injury persisted and the patient was improved
with respect to AIDS but still suffered from said permanent injury or
impairment previously inflicted.


TABLE I

______________________________________________________________________
____
Response of AIDS Patients to Single 40 PPM Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4
Inoculation
Date Weight
DISEASE
PATIENT Inoc.
WBC CD 4 DEATH
Lbs.
Group Sex
Age
Medictn
1994
I F I F CD 8
H 1944
I F Ag.sub.4 O.sub.4

______________________________________________________________________
____
Candidiasis
M p
28 Diflucan
5/5
1,200
4,200
41
-- 221
+ 6/11
82 76
T
F m
33 " 5/5
6,000
6,700
554
872
394
- 98 98
T
F m
33 Ketaconzl
5/27
2,600
3,850
248
181
951
+ 123 123
T
M p
62 " 6/2
3,300
3,700
89
237
59
+ 105 92
F
F m
31 Pentamidn
6/2
2,400
3,050
9 181
65
+ 121 118
Pain
Wasting
M m
27 5/27
3,600
4,600
39
14
709
+ 119 120
T
Syndrome
M m
28 5/27
2,750
-- 10
-- 60
+ 7/19
121 119
T, F
F p
43 5/27
3,600
2,700
68
246
248
+ 101 98
T, F
M m
19 5/10
3,850
5,400
137
36
48
+ 103 106
T, F

______________________________________________________________________
____



As this invention may be embodied in several forms without departing
from the spirit or essential characteristics thereof, the present
embodiments are therefore illustrative and not restrictive, since the
scope of the invention is defined by the appended claims rather than
by the description preceding them, and all changes that fall within
the metes and bounds of the claims or that form their functional as
well as conjointly cooperative equivalents, are therefore intended to
be embraced by these claims.


* * * * *

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------


--------------------
WARNING chronicshroom will rip you off! Don't trade with him! I sent him 20 spore syringes and he never sent me anything.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,635
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 10 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax?...The CURE FOR AIDS [Re: kb73]
    #1491802 - 04/25/03 12:57 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

We need less bad science, not more. :smirk:


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax?...The CURE FOR AIDS [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1492722 - 04/25/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Ok point taken, BUT people with HIV eventually experience extremly significant drops in T cell levels, which are a CRUCIAL part of the immune system. They have to get T cell levels checked all the time. So, what I mean to say is that HIV is a direct cause of the drop in t cell levels in the body, which leads to the body not being able to protect itself from diseases, and then you have AIDS because your body simple cant protect itself anymore from any disease.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1492880 - 04/25/03 11:20 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Are you willing to infect yourself with HIV to prove your point?




oh! ME ME!! I'll infect myself to prove his point!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1492883 - 04/25/03 11:21 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - Gen George S. Patton



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1493096 - 04/25/03 12:22 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting thread, but why is it here in the Political forum rather than Science and Technology?

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Circumcision Helps Prevent HIV Infection DiploidM 2,193 13 08/11/13 08:08 PM
by ChuangTzu
* HIV Traced to Wild Chimps asd11 456 0 05/26/06 05:23 AM
by asd11
* Cure For Aids/HIV Possibly Discovered! Announced Today Irishdrunk 2,104 16 02/17/06 06:15 PM
by fresh313
* Crocodile Immune System Kills HIV kronnyQ 1,212 4 08/21/05 05:19 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* New HIV like virus, EnlightenedFreak 959 4 08/14/04 10:56 PM
by EnlightenedFreak
* Man cured from HIV? Simms 1,049 17 12/18/10 01:00 PM
by BothHands
* Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases.
( 1 2 all )
johnm214 1,826 29 03/21/09 08:15 PM
by supra
* Pictures of one of Earth's last uncontacted tribes firing bows and arrows
( 1 2 3 4 all )
ShroomMan420 6,888 73 06/28/08 02:15 PM
by ToTheSummit

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, automan, Northerner
8,895 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 16 queries.