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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: supra]
    #10004715 -

supra said:
99% of the bible all comes down to interpretation, shit, the way we even read the thing is already interpreted badly, but its all we have to go off of.  So as for clarifying, there really is no way to do so, as it all comes down to however whoever interprets it.  The catholics have chosen 'fornication' and 'immoral sex' to mean sex outside of marriage, now if that was the true meaning...we will never know.  Maybe it was clearer in the original hebrew, but again, its a dead language, and we only know so much about it, and can only get so close.

peace



Everything comes down to interpretation.  I don't see how you can throw up your hands without translating the word.


For example, if the word was exactly what "immoral sex" means today then I would of course say premarital sex is not prohibited.


What could possibly be immoral about sex before marriage?  Nothing, its impossible. 


So we need to know what the original meaning was.  I've seen no effort in my quick searches to demonstrate that, instead people just pick random interpretatiosn and say "see immoral means premarital" when the whoel thing is silly.  Immoral is a judgment call anyways.  Was Paul really saying "be moral"?  I doubt it, I would imagine he was telling us not to do something particular.


Can anyone explain why we should or shouldn't care what Paul thinks though?  Since Jesus and, neccesarily, God spoke at length on the issue in the bible, should we really presume god made a mistake and needed Paul to fill in his errors? 

I mean does the bible ever even say we should give a fuck what Paul or anyone else thinks?  I never heard such.  At least Moses's sayings were described as authoritatative, Paul's were just described as "he said...".



Just something I don't get about the bible.

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: teeter]
    #10006146 -

> lol sorry i can now see this was unclear....by "he" i meant "Supra"

*laugh*  Wow, that reads completely different in proper context.  :smile:

Kind of ironic that we have been talking about the gateway drug theory in another thread.  The pope is making the same mistake, but with the "gateway condom" theory.  He is claiming that condoms are a gateway to multiple sex partners and multiple sex partners leads to increased HIV rates, therefore condom use leads to increased HIV rates.  The mistake being that there is no proof that condom availability leads to an increase in multiple sex partners.

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: johnm214]
    #10007258 -

Condoms: Pope can cause artificial guilt rate increases.

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: Seuss]
    #10007378 -

Quote:
Condoms help prevent the transmission of HIV; the pope is an idiot for claiming otherwise.


I object to calling him a mere idiot. Remember this is Africa we're talking out. Many countries there have a percentage of HIV+ people that run in the double digits.

Condoms are not fun to use and they cost money. So if all those priests tell their (often undereducated) flock that condoms are evil because Jesus isnt into latex or sometrhing, guess what these people will take home from the sermon.

Many thousands will DIE because the pope makes statements like this as an authority person. He is herding people of good faith into death here a la Jim Jones. People with barely any access to libraries and with no Internet to get the facts put their trust in their Church knowing best, and end up getting killed because of this. Its not stupid, its CRIMINAL and he should be persecuted for that.

If he did so in ODD I'd ban him for spreading dangerous misinformation:crankey:


--------------------
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Edited by Asante (03/20/09 11:52 AM)

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: Asante]
    #10008808 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
Condoms help prevent the transmission of HIV; the pope is an idiot for claiming otherwise.


I object to calling him a mere idiot. Remember this is Africa we're talking out. Many countries there have a percentage of HIV+ people that run in the double digits.

Condoms are not fun to use and they cost money. So if all those priests tell their (often undereducated) flock that condoms are evil because Jesus isnt into latex or sometrhing, guess what these people will take home from the sermon.

Many thousands will DIE because the pope makes statements like this as an authority person. He is herding people of good faith into death here a la Jim Jones. People with barely any access to libraries and with no Internet to get the facts put their trust in their Church knowing best, and end up getting killed because of this. Its not stupid, its CRIMINAL and he should be persecuted for that.

If he did so in ODD I'd ban him for spreading dangerous misinformation:crankey:


well said

and @ seuss....ya it is funny that we've been going back and forth in two separate threads about almost the same concept....although i agree with u in this one, "condom gateway" effect is bullshit from the pope and as Wiccan said, its actually very dangerous


--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake

"Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das

Edited by teeter (03/20/09 03:50 PM)

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: teeter]
    #10010531 -

I dunno.  The pope is still opposing condom distribution and I can't remember the last time I had sex with a subsaharan african so he might be on to something :thumbup:



If this were a DEA year end report that correlation alone would make bold print and be cited in news releases to the media nationwide as evidence of success.  Correlation = causation.  Just remember that and these messy issues where politics and science compete will be much easier to digest.

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: JT]
    #10014071 -

Jesus started HIV. :kingtard:


johnm214 said:
At least Moses's sayings were described as authoritatative, Paul's were just described as "he said...".


Moses was a child raping psycho. Moses helped spread HIV, HPV and crabs to our ancestors.


My personal loony idea is that Bibles are a gateway to ignorance. I wonder how the new Pope feels about that.

I wish we still had the old Pope. He rocked and had my respect and I'm not religious.


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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #10016310 -

BlimeyGrimey said:
Jesus started HIV. :kingtard:



haha, according to the bible, god did make HIV, at least he makes all 'evil' and if you say HIV is an 'evil', then it is so...

One of the more fucked up verses of the bible:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
- Isaiah 45:7

peace

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: supra]
    #10016350 -

Yeah, I never got how that was compatible with satan and his supposed deads.



This link is a great example of why I find the bible hard to take seriously in the same way the christians do, or especially to buy the chritian theology that even pretends to be based off of the bible.


http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html



"Yeah it says that, but....... it is undeniably clear it actually meant this totally unrelated thing and you must have faith, and that's all the time we have...."


huh?

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Re: Pope: Condoms can cause HIV rate increases. [Re: johnm214]
    #10016418 -

haha, i love your link man, just goes to show you that they will grasp at any straws yet again to make it make sense...must be nice to be able to lie to yourself so well that you actually believe it...wish i still could.

peace

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