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North Spore Shop: Cultivation Supplies

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13960848 -

Well if it makes any consolation, anyone with a felony drug charge is void from receiving welfare.  Most drug addicts have a felony drug charge and can't get welfare.  Food stamps are to feed hungry people, not monitor people's drug use.  For someone that claims to be a libertarian, you sure don't mind the government invading peoples privacy to save a buck.  I have no problem with them getting rid government sponsored welfare, but fuck government sanctioned drug testing (which would end up costing more money).  Millions of drug tests, millions of more man hours.  Social services is already fucked up as it is, drug testing would cost so much money and wouldn't save what it costs.  The state government would be paying for 50% of that, and wouldn't save anything because the federal government pays for 100% of food stamps.  Don't forget about the hundreds of thousands of legal medical marijuana participants that would be thrown off food
stamps if they started drug testing for it.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: fapjack]
    #13960865 -

Libertarians do not believe in government handouts.  Period, end of discussion.  They believe in freely given voluntary charity.  It isn't charity when I have some guy with a gun telling me I must hand over my shit to somebody else that they chose.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13960932 -

That sounds the same with paying any tax.  Who the fuck is anyone to tell me I have to pay taxes?  If I don't want these services I go to prison if I decide not to pay for them. 

To the point though, I disagree with both, but I have a much bigger issue with violating people's civil rights than giving resources to poor people.  It sounds quite unconstitutional to me to force people to pee in a cup if they receive aid.  Being a cheap jew doesn't make you a libertarian.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: fapjack]
    #13960952 -

fapjack said:
That sounds the same with paying any tax.  Who the fuck is anyone to tell me I have to pay taxes?  If I don't want these services I go to prison if I decide not to pay for them. 

To the point though, I disagree with both, but I have a much bigger issue with violating people's civil rights than giving resources to poor people.  It sounds quite unconstitutional to me to force people to pee in a cup if they receive aid.  Being a cheap jew doesn't make you a libertarian.


I'm not a jew and I'm not cheap.  Now tell me again why I should have a guy with a gun telling me I have to fund some douchebag's four year drug, alcohol and Art History binge.

One could, and many have, made the argument that compulsory charity is unconstitutional.  It does not contribute to the general welfare when less than 20% benefit.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13960997 -

I'm not disagreeing with you, I don't think you should have to pay for welfare, or even for food stamps for that matter.  I think a lot less people would sign up if all they got was bread to eat.  I have a problem with what we are talking about, drug testing said people.  Doing 2 fucked up things doesn't make the latter right, it just makes the former even more fucked up.  I have a big issue with the government drug testing anyone, that's not there job.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: fapjack]
    #13961013 -

If you don't want the tests, don't take them.  YOU ARE NOT BEING COMPELLED TO TAKE ANY TESTS.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: destructo_low]
    #13961027 -

What if you're on welfare and your friend gives you a bong hit.  Then you're drug tested the next day and lose your benefits.  Is that fair?













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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: destructo_low]
    #13961034 -

I support welfare drug testing 100%

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13961079 -

What about the people that have worked there whole lives, but lost there jobs due to tough times?  They can't get the assistance they've been paying for for years because asshole republicans care more about there believes than about human lives?  My urine is clean and if some swinging dick asked me to piss in a cup I'd tell him to go fuck himself entirely on principals.  Do principals mean nothing anymore?  Its the government overstepping their authority, and its not going to happen.  Why not test people to see if they are drinking, and have social workers going over there entire finances, it will cost a fortune but we can make it so no one beats the welfare system.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: fapjack]
    #13961272 -

fapjack said:
What about the people that have worked there whole lives, but lost there jobs due to tough times? 


There is currently almost 2 years of unemployment benefits available.  Somebody who has "worked their whole life" is eligible.  Then there is their savings and whatever assets they have accrued.  They do not have a license to never work again.
Quote:
They can't get the assistance they've been paying for for years because asshole republicans care more about there believes than about human lives? 


Not correct, see above.  That also has not one thing to do with using drugs, does it.  Then there is private charity.  PRIVATE FUCKING CHARITY!  If we had any fucking money left we might give to it.
Quote:
My urine is clean and if some swinging dick asked me to piss in a cup I'd tell him to go fuck himself entirely on principals.


LOL at people on the dole having principles.  How do I know your piss is clean?  Because you say so?  So does every using junkie piece of shit.
Quote:
Do principals mean nothing anymore?  Its the government overstepping their authority, and its not going to happen.


It may well happen and it isn't overstepping thier authority to demand that those on the dole not waste the money or not attempt to be employed.  This isn't England.
Quote:
  Why not test people to see if they are drinking, and have social workers going over there entire finances, it will cost a fortune but we can make it so no one beats the welfare system.


OK.  Although I do not know that you can even test for alcohol metabolites.  And shouldn't they have to prove they have no other means before they get on the dole?  Why yes, yes they should.  That's what they do with medicare right now.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13961362 -

Junkie piece of shit?  Fuck you. 
I'm not even going to bother arguing, its going no where.  I have different principals than you.

For the record though, alcohol can be tested for in a urine test.

Quote:
Ethyl glucuronide (EtG) is a direct metabolite of ethanol alcohol. The presence of EtG in the urine can be used to detect recent alcohol consumption, even after the ethanol alcohol is no longer measurable.

Consequently, the presence of EtG in the urine is a definitive indicator that alcohol has been ingested.

Traditional laboratory practices typically measure the amount of alcohol present in the body.

Depending on the amount of alcohol that has been consumed, this method usually reveals alcohol ingestion within the past few hours.

The presence of EtG in the urine, on the other hand, demonstrates that ethanol alcohol was ingested within the past three or four days, or roughly 80 hours after the ethanol alcohol has been metabolized by the body.

As a result, it can be determined that a urine alcohol test employing EtG is a more accurate indicator of the recent consumption of alcohol as opposed to simply measuring for the existence of ethanol alcohol.



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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: fapjack]
    #13961404 -

fapjack said:
Junkie piece of shit?  Fuck you.


If, as you say, you are clean why do you think that applies to you?  Are you even on the dole? 
Quote:

I'm not even going to bother arguing, its going no where.  I have different principals than you.


That has been quite clear for quite some time.  I was ashamed to ask for help even when I was broke.  That includes calling my family.
Quote:
For the record though, alcohol can be tested for in a urine test.
Quote:
this method usually reveals alcohol ingestion within the past few hours.





I have a test that can do that too.  It's called smelling.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #13961440 -

MisterMuscaria said:
I support welfare drug testing 100%


So if someone on welfare tests positive for marijuana because his friend smoked him up for free, he should lose his welfare? 














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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


Edited by Learyfan (02/14/11 04:17 PM)

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Learyfan]
    #13961474 -

Yeah.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13961493 -

Why not read the entire paragraph.
Quote:
The presence of EtG in the urine, on the other hand, demonstrates that ethanol alcohol was ingested within the past three or four days, or roughly 80 hours after the ethanol alcohol has been metabolized by the body.



If you want props for being a salty asshole you won't get them from me.  I have a problem with heroin, and whenever I was getting high I never received a government handout.  I hustled for my money, I didn't beat the system and I sure as fuck was never a piece of shit.  If you can't see why I wouldn't take offense to that you're a bigger asshole than I thought you were.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #13961716 -

Learyfan said:
What if you're on welfare and your friend gives you a bong hit.  Then you're drug tested the next day and lose your benefits.  Is that fair?















No sir, it isn't. Except for the getting a free bong hit part.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #13961805 -

If you get public assistance (money), you shouldn't have assistance in breaking the public law (buying illegal drugs) If you believe that the drug in question, say marijuana, should not be illegal - change the law - but it really doesn't have relevance to the issue. The issue being that too many people are hurting right now to pay for this kind of shit. If you are doing so bad that you need publicly funded money you shouldn't be doing drugs. Period. Get a job, then do a shit load of drugs. Or don't get a job, but just don't take my fucking money :crankey:

I've been getting drug tested since I was 16 years old at various jobs and it's fucking stupid. I agree. I have a hard time understanding, though - Why do I have to be drug tested, me, a working person and not the person receiving welfare?

Edited by gzuf (02/14/11 05:11 PM)

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: gzuf]
    #13961833 -

gzuf said:
If you get public assistance (money), you shouldn't have assistance in breaking the public law (buying illegal drugs) If you believe that the drug in question, say marijuana, should not be illegal - change the law - but it really doesn't have relevance to the issue. The issue being that too many people are hurting right now to pay for this kind of shit. If you are doing so bad that you need publicly funded money you shouldn't be doing drugs. Period. Get a job, then do a shit load of drugs. Or don't get a job, but just don't take my fucking money :crankey:


But just because they test positive does not meant that they bought the illegal drugs.  What if their friend smoked them up for free. 

:crankey:














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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Learyfan]
    #13961871 -

Learyfan said:
But just because they test positive does not meant that they bought the illegal drugs.  What if their friend smoked them up for free. 


Alright, maybe in this scenario. I mean, after all, there are millions of scenarios playing throughout the entire world, all based on probability.

But the probability of the situation is that if a person is positive chances are they are buying drugs and using them. Wouldn't you agree? I mean, in the big picture of things. Sure there are some situations but that would seem to be the most probable.

And if not, so what? They know the risks. They know they get tested. It's not hard to drink a lot of Gatorade if you have to. If you are on public money why are you getting high on the public payroll? Shouldn't you be looking for work?

Again, I don't understand why

working man - drug tests at most jobs nowadays
welfare queen - no drug tests

It seems to me that people on welfare want to have your cake and eat it to. I don't think they should have that choice.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: BlueJayWay]
    #13961888 -

BlueJayWay said:
Not saying people get turned away, I'm saying people WON'T go because they know financial aid won't cover their bills but they still can't afford the bill



within 100 miles of me I know of 6 charity hospitals, 2 are within 15
miles, I also have access to 2 county health departments within the same
distance, I took my daughter to one of the hospitals because I thought she
broke her arm, never even received a bill, my ex wife spent 3 weeks in the
ICU of the same hospital just before our divorce, again, no bill

if these people are so afraid of a hospital bill, and it's not life
threatening, maybe they should hit the county health department, if it's
more serious then surely it takes little to find the publicly funded
hospital in their area
Quote:
Quote:
what about the unemployed father of 2 that's sober, dont I deserve to be
treated like a human or should I be denied government assistance because
I own my car


Of course I think you should get gov assistance, I never said I didn't think you should. A car is a necessity in some places, like I said before.


well even though I've paid in to the system since I was 13, I'm unable to
get government assistance and while they dont give me a reason I assume
it's the better of my 2 views, surely they wouldnt discriminate against me
because I'm a white male



Quote:
Not true. His first $14,000 emergency surgery took place two days before his 18th birthday. His dad got charged with 10k of it, and by the time he was billed, he was 18, so he got charged with 4k of it.


he cant consent to medical treatment or enter into a contract until he's 18, maybe he needs to point it out to the hospital with a firmly worded letter



Quote:
Quote:
the way I see it, if you have a job and use the money to buy drugs you're
using your own earnings, if you use public funds to buy drugs then you're
committing fraud because that money was meant to feed you


It is fraud in a way, but just because someone has a drug problem doesn't mean they don't deserve to eat.




no one is stopping them from eating, it's not that hard to understand,
what it would do if force them to prioritize, is eating more important
than the drugs? then take the drug money and buy food, by giving them a
check every moth it allows them to take the food money to buy drugs
meaning... they still arent eating but they sure as fuck are staying high

and hell, if they really want the drugs and the food bad enough, they can
sell some ass on the street corner, loads of cash in that unless they have
a pimp


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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North Spore Shop: Cultivation Supplies

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