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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Phychotron]
    #13957603 -

Phychotron said:
Prisoner#1 said:
Phychotron said:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

it's that whole probable cause business, you can't subject individuals to a search due to a few instances of fraud. Submitting a drug test for government assistance is a violation of our individual privacy.



where's the part about welfare being a right?

it's really simple, set a cutoff date for welfare, if they want to reapply
they need to submit, it's no different than the implied consent laws
regarding driving, refuse the breathalyzer and they take your license


but they'd have to suspect you of driving under the influence before they test you, not just pull you over and tell you that, because your using a publicly funded highway you are subject to screening. again, going back to probable cause: you can't treat everyone like a criminal by default.



well goodness... public assistance, public highways... suspicions...
not seeing an issue, pretty easy to see signs of drug abuse


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Phychotron]
    #13957619 -

Phychotron said:
employment is still voluntary, being hungry is not.



public assistance if voluntary
hunger is voluntary

Quote:
pre-employment screening is to protect the integrity of the system, not to enforce laws. pre-govt assistance would be to enforce laws, assuming all are guilty.


nope... both would be protecting the integrity of the system, it's simple,
if you can afford to buy drugs you can afford to buy food, if you're
buying drugs instead of food or even hiding income to get public
assistance then you're guilty of fraud

Quote:
now don't get me wrong, their are a few people abusing the system and it needs to stop, but subjecting everyone to the lowest standards only degrades society.


but see, now you're talking about profiling while drug testing everyone
would be fair because it doesnt pick someone based on arbitrary criteria


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: meatwodd7600]
    #13957636 -

meatwodd7600 said:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
I am a (working) single parent on assistance



I'm a single unemployed parent that cant get assistance


  Man, that sucks...  Wonder why you do not qualify?  Own too many assets?


yep... they'd prefer me to be trapped in the system, lose my place, my car
and everything else before allowing me to have anything that I've paid into


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13957640 -

Treating people differently would be unconstitutional.

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: ModularMind]
    #13957667 -

they already do that with their institutional racism programs


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13959128 -

Prisoner#1 said:
but see, now you're talking about profiling while drug testing everyone
would be fair because it doesnt pick someone based on arbitrary criteria


it's not fair because it's a search "legal check, lets see some proof your not committing a crime..."    it's not how we operate in this country. You're innocent until proven guilty. Do you not understand that?


--------------------
On a mission to prove that the truth gets you no where.
They tried the truth, It didn't work. Then they wrote the bible. 

Only the foolish fear the inevitable.

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Phychotron]
    #13959150 -

oh, and what makes the anti-drug law correct? what if a drug somehow was foolishly or erroniously made illigeal? :bongload:

Who is the government to say that we do not have the rights, as lower class citizens, to stand up for our beliefs and use these substances?


--------------------
On a mission to prove that the truth gets you no where.
They tried the truth, It didn't work. Then they wrote the bible. 

Only the foolish fear the inevitable.

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Phychotron]
    #13959378 -

This thread delivered:smirk:...:popcorn::drinklager: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: vinsue]
    #13959425 -

Who gives a shit if people on welfare use drugs?  It isn't like these people can't blow all there disposable income on lottery tickets, which is perfectly legal.  It might not be a good investment, but its none of anyones business what they are doing with there money.  If they are trading foodstamps for money or drugs that's different, but drug use doesn't prove that.  I have no problem with the logic of getting rid of the foodstamps program entirely, but fuck drug testing people on government assistance.  This system wouldn't save money either, most drug users are smart enough to beat drug tests, especially when they aren't being watched.  The point of food stamps is to feed hungry people, not monitor poor people.

I swear to god, you people piss and moan about these social projects but the biggest social project is the US Military and its a much bigger waste of money than food stamps or welfare.  I wouldn't mind seeing either one disappear personally, but the US military is a lot more expensive and a lot more morally questionable.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: fapjack]
    #13959439 -

:thumbup: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: vinsue]
    #13959653 -

I didn't read the entire thread, but anyway...
I don't think anyone should be drug tested for employment or welfare, unless something happens (e.g. they crash a tractor on the job or something)
Just cause someone's a junkie fuck screw up doesn't mean they don't deserve to eat.

A car is a necessity in some places, and not others. (I live a mile away from the nearest bus stop, on a dangerous road with no sidewalks and no shoulder at times. I've walked to the bus stop before, but I sure as hell would not want to walk there every time I needed to go somewhere. I probably would have gotten hit by a car by now if I had been walking there every time I needed to go somewhere).

By the way, I also believe in "free" healthcare. No one should have to not get treated or even die because they're afraid they won't be able to pay the medical bill. People dying of cancer shouldn't have to worry about paying medical bills. Even junkie no job fuck ups deserve to be treated like humans. My boyfriend owes about 4k in medical bills, has no way to pay them, and still needs to go back to the doctor but he won't because he can't afford more bills. The system is really fucked because he couldn't get charity for his bills because his dad made too much money, but his dad gives all of his money to his gambling addicted mom, and they're broke.

So yeah, I think we should help people in bad places, because we can, and it's the right thing to do, even if they're spending all the welfare money on drugs, at least they have a fucking chance of staying alive and getting into a better situation,.

Yeah, it's not fair that employers drug test and welfare doesn't, but should we wish the same bullshit on people on welfare just because hard-working people are subject to the bullshit? It seems like a bitter thing to do.

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Phychotron]
    #13959703 -

Phychotron said:
Prisoner#1 said:
but see, now you're talking about profiling while drug testing everyone
would be fair because it doesnt pick someone based on arbitrary criteria


it's not fair because it's a search "legal check, lets see some proof your not committing a crime..."    it's not how we operate in this country. You're innocent until proven guilty. Do you not understand that?


then why do they take you to jail when you commit a crime instead of just
telling you you'll have to appear in court? seems to be exactly how this
country works. this isnt about application for tax funds to support you,
it's not something that would land you in jail, it would simply deny you a
free paycheck, of course there could be an appeal process


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Phychotron]
    #13959710 -

Phychotron said:
oh, and what makes the anti-drug law correct? what if a drug somehow was foolishly or erroniously made illigeal? :bongload:

Who is the government to say that we do not have the rights, as lower class citizens, to stand up for our beliefs and use these substances?


it doesnt matter how or under what circumstances it was made illegal, it;s
illegal and anyone over the age of 18 certainly knows it's illegal, 18 being
the age to apply for government assistance or enter into contracts


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: BlueJayWay]
    #13959731 -

BlueJayWay said:
Just cause someone's a junkie fuck screw up doesn't mean they don't deserve to eat.


so they should be able to instead spend the money they get for food on
drugs so they had the choice to not eat and instead get high while their
kids go hungry... there's plenty of charitable organizations the feed
junkie fuck ups especially the ones with kids



Quote:
By the way, I also believe in "free" healthcare. No one should have to not get treated or even die because they're afraid they won't be able to pay the medical bill.


since when has someone been turned away from the emergency room or refused
treatment because they had no  ability to pay, it's illegal in the US to
do that, there's charity hospitals already funded through private and
public sources that ensure you never see a bill, even those that are
private hospitals cant turn you away and will in fact help you seek funds
to ensure they get paid when you do receive a bill, their financial
department does that every day


Quote:
Even junkie no job fuck ups deserve to be treated like humans.


what about the unemployed father of 2 that's sober, dont I deserve to be
treated like a human or should I be denied government assistance because
I own my car

Quote:
My boyfriend owes about 4k in medical bills, has no way to pay them, and still needs to go back to the doctor but he won't because he can't afford more bills. The system is really fucked because he couldn't get charity for his bills because his dad made too much money, but his dad gives all of his money to his gambling addicted mom, and they're broke.



if he was  under 18, he doesnt owe it, his parents do, if he was over 18,
his parents income never would have come into play, all he needs to do is
stay on the financial department and from here needs to start with the
county health department to further his treatment



Quote:
Yeah, it's not fair that employers drug test and welfare doesn't, but should we wish the same bullshit on people on welfare just because hard-working people are subject to the bullshit? It seems like a bitter thing to do.


the way I see it, if you have a job and use the money to buy drugs you're
using your own earnings, if you use public funds to buy drugs then you're
committing fraud because that money was meant to feed you


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13959751 -

Well contrary tp popular public opinion nowadays, not everyone on welfare is smoking crack and popping out kids left and right. But nevermind this, let's make college folks have to pass a piss test to get into and stay in college. I'll bet that'll be popular around here.

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13959759 -

Quote:
since when has someone been turned away from the emergency room or refused
treatment because they had no  ability to pay, it's illegal in the US to
do that, there's charity hospitals already funded through private and
public sources that ensure you never see a bill, even those that are
private hospitals cant turn you away and will in fact help you seek funds to ensure they get paid when you do receive a bill, their financial
department does that every day


Not saying people get turned away, I'm saying people WON'T go because they know financial aid won't cover their bills but they still can't afford the bill

Quote:
what about the unemployed father of 2 that's sober, dont I deserve to be
treated like a human or should I be denied government assistance because
I own my car


Of course I think you should get gov assistance, I never said I didn't think you should. A car is a necessity in some places, like I said before.

Quote:
if he was  under 18, he doesnt owe it, his parents do, if he was over 18,
his parents income never would have come into play, all he needs to do is
stay on the financial department and from here needs to start with the
county health department to further his treatment


Not true. His first $14,000 emergency surgery took place two days before his 18th birthday. His dad got charged with 10k of it, and by the time he was billed, he was 18, so he got charged with 4k of it. I thought it was fucking bullshit too. He paid 3k of it off (he had money from a car accident) , and we had to go to the ER a few months ago, so not he owes 2 more grand, plus the 1k he didn't pay off yet. He's considered a dependent, and his dad currently has no income, but they want to know the HOUSEHOLD income of where he is living which is FUCKING BULLSHIT cause he lives with me and my parents, and my mom is not going to fucking pay for his medical bills.  It's all fucking bullshit. He has no license, no one to teach him to drive, no car to learn how to drive on, no way to get to a job if he had one (I said before that bus is not an option where we live), his parents are fuck ups, and he still can't get help. Luckily, we're probably moving to a more city area in the next few months and he can take the bus then and get a job.

Quote:
the way I see it, if you have a job and use the money to buy drugs you're
using your own earnings, if you use public funds to buy drugs then you're
committing fraud because that money was meant to feed you


It is fraud in a way, but just because someone has a drug problem doesn't mean they don't deserve to eat.

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: BlueJayWay]
    #13959843 -

Pris this is the first time I can agree with you. :highfive:


--------------------
.....Healing Of People Everywhere.....


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Sandoz]
    #13959851 -

until one becomes an addict and cant work without the opiots- trust me please, im trying to help you. take it from me, you do not want an opiod addiction its the worst. takes forever to feal normal again. dont hate bro- i dont want to see anybody go threw what i did- 16 months and i still dont feal normal, is any drug worth that?


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There are 2 types of people, mycophobes and mycophiles R.Wasson

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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13960112 -

ToiletDuk said:
Well contrary tp popular public opinion nowadays, not everyone on welfare is smoking crack and popping out kids left and right. But nevermind this, let's make college folks have to pass a piss test to get into and stay in college. I'll bet that'll be popular around here.


If they're using my money to do it, fuck yeah.  I'm not interested in funding some jackass on a four year drug, alcohol and Art History binge.


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Re: Welfare drug testing. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13960131 -

It's just throwing more money at a program that doesn't need ANY more money spent on it in the first place.

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