deCypher said:

Just take into account how much violence and bloodshed has been committed on a mere promise of eternal life via religion; now make that promise an actuality in the here and now.  *shudders*   

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Surely an elite would want to keep such technology limited for themselves. Our planet wouldn't be able to keep up with the population growth if nobody died.

Death is very taboo in the West, but I don't think it was always that way throughout history. The Tibetan's claimed to have maps of the after death realms. Contemporary out-of-body explorers, myself included, claim to have met relatives who have physically died.

I think there is a big release which comes when you alleviate that fear of death - fear of the unknown. Shamans went through initiation ceremonies where they were buried in the ground, locked in dark caves, etc... Or in altered states of consciousness had the "spirits" rip the flesh off their bodies, visualizing themselves as the mere bones that remained. All of this was symbolic of death. If you have ever died in a dream you can have a similar experience. I don't believe you can really live until you have this symbolic death. The lucky ones get their shells cracked early.

There is a lot of interesting symbolism surrounding Death in the Tarot.
Yes, the Death card can signal a death in the right circumstances (a question about a very sick or old relative, for example), but unlike its dramatic presentation in the movies, the Death card is far more likely to signal transformation, passage, change. The Death card indicates this transition from lower to higher to highest. This is a card of humility, and it may indicate the Querent as being brought low, but only so that they can then go higher than they ever have before. Wang notes that Death "humbles" all, but it also "exults." Always keep in mind that on this card of darkness, there is a sunrise as well.

deCypher said:

1. Do you think that with eventual advances in technology we will be able to halt aging and become immortal, barring accidents?

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2. What would such a discovery do to society?  What major changes would you expect to happen?

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Too many babies, not enough food.

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3. Would you opt into this form of immortality, or would you want to experience death?

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circastes said:

I can't really answer those questions but I recommend trying to induce an OBE any way you can. It seems the fear of death is reinforced by the idea that you are shut in to your body. If you can get out of it for a while, you might fear death less, thus be a step on your way to conquering it.

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LuSiD9 said:

circastes said:

I can't really answer those questions but I recommend trying to induce an OBE any way you can. It seems the fear of death is reinforced by the idea that you are shut in to your body. If you can get out of it for a while, you might fear death less, thus be a step on your way to conquering it.

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15-20 years ago, OBE's did just that for me... but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

my death anxiety is right back where it was, despite the fact that I can basically have OBE's every night

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This isn't new.  I've been down a long road in years compared to many here.  The psychedelic road and the bodywork meditation road and psychology road.

I've seen more than a couple of friends think they were at the door to enlightenment and begin to proclaim the advent of their enlightenment or the new age only within a year or two to have a mighty fall from "grace" and find themselves in the world with everyone else dealing with their human psychology like everyone else.  And that's why I'm not buying this stuff that so many post here.  I've actually got some long term experience.

But everyone has to find out for themselves.  I can only give my trip report.

LuSiD9 said:

but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

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deCypher said:

Can you elaborate?  Why would this result in antlike automation?

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The better we get at tweaking our neurological reward pathways, the less attention we will pay to our outward behaviors, and the more we will carry out the activities of living and loving in concretely-routinized patterns, much like ants.

At a certain point, total dominance of technology over consciousness by virtue of the former's ability to sustainably stimulate the latter will obviate the latter's original purpose of controlling the body, and the body will multiply without measure as consciousness regresses into an endless cycle of self-satisfaction.

Then, human beings, mindless but conjoined to the god-consciousness able to experience such perfect stimulation, will march across the face of the earth and go to the stars, with no regard for personal well-being, and behave very much like the Borg - I mean, ants.

I've watched Star Trek, I know what it's like. I'd rather die.

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I've watched Star Trek, I know what it's like. I'd rather die.

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Heretic!

Now say three 'Hail Kirks' and an 'Our Picard' and repent.

c0sm0nautt said:

Different medicines for different persons. We're all ultimately on our own trip.

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True dat.  Maybe.  We may not be on "our" trip at all. It might be evolutions trip and we're along for the ride.

c0sm0nautt said:

LuSiD9 said:

but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

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How do you feel they are more hallucinatory than any other state of consciousness? It's funny because for me they can feel more real than waking reality.

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that's actually a pretty good question... and I definitely know what you're saying, as a lot of them feel that way to me as well, so do the realms I see with my eyes closed during heavy doses of dissociatives, which also used to prove to me without a doubt that there's an afterlife of some sort.

I just look at it differently now I guess... as real as those realms seem, I just don't believe that's what's gonna happen when we die... at least not after total 100% brain death.

I don't feel any state of consciousness is any more or less 'real' than another, Nor do they prove there's an afterlife, or some sort of consciousness that can exist without the brain

In the past I'd be saying something totally different and would prolly be posting about it in the spirituality and mysticism forum

although I will admit, there is some days where i think otherwise... but those are usually days where I've been K holed for a few hours, or on a massive dose of DXM

c0sm0nautt said:

LuSiD9 said:

but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

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How do you feel they are more hallucinatory than any other state of consciousness? It's funny because for me they can feel more real than waking reality.

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LuSiD9 said:

In the past I'd be saying something totally different and would prolly be posting about it in the spirituality and mysticism forum

although I will admit, there is some days where i think otherwise... but those are usually days where I've been K holed for a few hours, or on a massive dose of DXM

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learningtofly said:

c0sm0nautt said:

LuSiD9 said:

but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

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How do you feel they are more hallucinatory than any other state of consciousness? It's funny because for me they can feel more real than waking reality.

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Maybe because you don't like your waking reality? How do you know what is more "real" than something else? Do you have an ultimate, true reality benchmark to base your experiences off of?

IMO you just LIKE the OBE experience more and therefore it feels more real to you because its comforting.

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LuSiD9 said:

circastes said:

I can't really answer those questions but I recommend trying to induce an OBE any way you can. It seems the fear of death is reinforced by the idea that you are shut in to your body. If you can get out of it for a while, you might fear death less, thus be a step on your way to conquering it.

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15-20 years ago, OBE's did just that for me... but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

my death anxiety is right back where it was, despite the fact that I can basically have OBE's every night

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Fun fun fun!

But why would you doubt the experience? Is there some official place you go, where you demarcate real from hallucination? What's to say even waking life isn't some kind of hallucination? Is that just too contrived, or do we fail to realise thinking everything has to be real/solid/consequential the real contrived notion? I mean, if you open your mind, you realise there really is nothing to put anything either way - it's all what you've learnt, and it's that makes you death-anxious. You sort of give up then and when you've done it for long enough, 'you' disappear, and there's nothing left to fear death, there's no direction of time, even. There is only the present and it is completely fulfilling. Who even needs an afterlife when you already have everything? Ehhh... just keep that mind gaping open...

c0sm0nautt said:

LuSiD9 said:

but now, I'm really doubting OBE's are anything more than elaborate hallucinations.

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How do you feel they are more hallucinatory than any other state of consciousness? It's funny because for me they can feel more real than waking reality.

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