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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: random_wanderer]
    #13735151 -

random_wanderer said:
The only people i know who have achieved a self perpetuating happiness that has not stagnated into frustration or desires-a-new, are people who have attained a spiritual salvation, deliverance or enlightenment.

Even if that's true, what does it have to do with anything? I seriously doubt you've met any "enlightened" humans. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13740354 -

Poid said:
random_wanderer said:
The only people i know who have achieved a self perpetuating happiness that has not stagnated into frustration or desires-a-new, are people who have attained a spiritual salvation, deliverance or enlightenment.

Even if that's true, what does it have to do with anything?


What has the cat got to do with the mat?

The comment of mine that you have isolated was connected with my previous sentence and created a context for the following sentences altogether my reply addressed a conceptual/theoretical proposition as to why salvation might be needed, why people might seek it and what it is.

Considering that in your original post you spoke of your difficulties with understanding the concept of salvation since you were a child and also wondered what it was that led religious people to seek and advocate it, i think that what i wrote has quite a lot to with the topic.

Quote:
Poid said: I seriously doubt you've met any "enlightened" humans.


What do you mean? I AM ENLIGHTENED AND AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE!!! jk jk jk xxx

I did not claim that i have, and apologise if i gave the impression that i had, if i did it must have made me seem arrogant.  I would desperately like to meet someone that has, and often daydream about the different mystics and what they might have been like in real life.

When i said the only people i know, i did not mean know personally, but know as in read about and the accounts of.  As i stated in my post, there are plenty of well regarded accounts from and of people who have achieved salvation/deliverance/enlightenment.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: random_wanderer]
    #13740578 -

random_wanderer said:
Poid said:
random_wanderer said:
The only people i know who have achieved a self perpetuating happiness that has not stagnated into frustration or desires-a-new, are people who have attained a spiritual salvation, deliverance or enlightenment.

Even if that's true, what does it have to do with anything?


What has the cat got to do with the mat?

What? :hehehe:


random_wanderer said:
The comment of mine that you have isolated was connected with my previous sentence and created a context for the following sentences altogether my reply addressed a conceptual/theoretical proposition as to why salvation might be needed, why people might seek it and what it is.

Considering that in your original post you spoke of your difficulties with understanding the concept of salvation since you were a child and also wondered what it was that led religious people to seek and advocate it, i think that what i wrote has quite a lot to with the topic.

Well I thought you were suggesting that religion is the only way to true happiness, I just wanted to know what your point was, which is why I asked you what your comment has to do with.


random_wanderer said:
Quote:
Poid said: I seriously doubt you've met any "enlightened" humans.


What do you mean? I AM ENLIGHTENED AND AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE!!! jk jk jk xxx

I did not claim that i have, and apologise if i gave the impression that i had, if i did it must have made me seem arrogant.  I would desperately like to meet someone that has, and often daydream about the different mystics and what they might have been like in real life.

When i said the only people i know, i did not mean know personally, but know as in read about and the accounts of.  As i stated in my post, there are plenty of well regarded accounts from and of people who have achieved salvation/deliverance/enlightenment.

Well regarded accounts? Such as?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13741540 -

Poid said:
Well I thought you were suggesting that religion is the only way to true happiness, I just wanted to know what your point was, which is why I asked you what your comment has to do with.

Who knows?
hense my questioning in my original post. 

Quote:
Poid said: Well regarded accounts? Such as?


Sri Ramana Maharshi – There are many transcripts of recorded converstions he had that have been published (Be as you are is the most well known).
Sri Rama Krishna – The gospel of Sri Rama Krishna
Shankara – His written works are self evident (my favourite is crest jewel of discrimination).
The transmission of the lamp contains over 1000 biographies of different Buddhas and also their writings.
Sadhu Sundar Singh – Essential writings; and Parables and Insights.
Jalal-uddin Rumi – His written works are self evident (numerous poetry and prose books, by him and compilations from his original works).
Meister Eckhart – From whom God hid nothing, but there are many more essays which are self evident.
St John of the Cross – Dark night of the soul
Brother Lawrence – The practice of the presence of God and the spiritual maxims.

There are plenty more.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: random_wanderer]
    #13741601 -

Ah, so where's the proof that these people were "enlightened"?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13741638 -

Its like tripping, the proof is in the pudding.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: random_wanderer]
    #13741700 -

:huxleyfacepalm:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13742171 -

Poid if you are looking for something like certified document of enlightenment.. well then, good luck :smile:


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13742211 -

Poid said:
Ah, so where's the proof that these people were "enlightened"?


Did you forget which forum you're posting in again?  :nono:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13746528 -


So religious people desire to be saved from the oppression of desire?

those who have reached salvation have transcended desire



--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

Edited by desert father (01/07/11 09:45 AM)

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Re: What exactly do religious people mean by "salvation"? [Re: Poid]
    #13746568 -

Poid said:
Ah, so where's the proof that these people were "enlightened"?


the "proof" lies in the only truth there ever is, in direct experience.

if you understood more clearly the train of thought that people who follow spiritual practices adhere too, you'd be a lot less confused.

maybe an internet forum isn't the place to look for "proof"?

possibly looking for direct experience might help you understand, and i assure you noone can help you comprehend direct experience over the internet...but then again do you really desire the answer to your questions?

or are you merely trying to poke fun at spiritual people by asking questions over the internet using words in a manner that may be difficult to answer simply for your own amusement?


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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