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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: I AM SWIM] * 1
    #13133751 -

I AM SWIM said:
u ever think that the ppl who don't believe in the conspiracies and focus on the evidence, may be missing a particular puzzle piece that only the conspiracy theorists have?


if that extra puzzle piece is an extra chromosome then I can certainly believe it :smirk:

if they have it why havent they shared it




Quote:
prolly hard to find, but u gotta understand there wouldn't be such a conflict if both sides didn't have some sort of hard to dispute reason for doin' thangs



no, most of what;s spread as 'truth' is based on loose observation and
comparison to what they believe to be identical to something else, no
facts needed. claims are made such as the "no steel structure has fallen
prior to 9/11 due to fire, that's what the FEMA report says!!!" which is
an omission of fact and a blatant lie, the fact omitted would be the
report claims 'no large steel structure with fire suppression...', it
doesnt matter that they can quickly google hundreds of images of steel
buildings that have collapsed due to fire alone, those are suddenly not
evidence because they're different...

almost all the claims are easy to debunk, most are based on an omission of key pieces of evidence/information or based on 'eye witness' testimony, something that cops will tell you is very unreliable

there is certainly proven complicity from government in this event, it
was released in 11/2001 that the FBI had gathered intel showing that
terrorists with Al Qaida had plans to hijack planes and hit several
targets, in 1993 a previous attempt was made on the WTC buildings by Al
Qaida so it's a big indicator that they would probably try again and of
course the whitehouse/FBI directors dismissed it quickly stating that it
wasnt within their scope of power to investigate it even though that's
one of their primary duties

should there be another investigation... absolutely but it shouldnt be
based on the crap that conspiracy theorists are trying to choke down our
throats, it needs to start with the FBI and their failure to act upon
actionable intelligence and continue to the white house. basing it on
all this other crap before establishing the chain of custody on this
intel is what's preventing people from learning the actual truth




Quote:
its funny too, in a way cuz both sides tend to say the other side is close minded.
:tongue:


not really... it's usually only one side doing that here, I've always
contended that open mindedness to those that say they have one is
nothing more that 'agree with me or you're a closed minded fool'

"open mindedness is just another way of saying you want your brains splattered all over the street" Prisoner#1


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13133811 -

ekomstop said:
I'd probably be open to the idea that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 if the FBI didn't claim there was no hard evidence to support that theory.  I might even think it is unlikely that there were bombs in the towers if eyewitnesses didn't claim to have seen/heard explosions on multiple instances.


some eyewitnesses saw planes, others saw missiles, others saw nothing,
when a robbery occurs there's a dozen different accounts given by
different witnesses, eye witness testimony is unreliable, the set up of
a job of that size would take more than a year and more than a thousand
tons of thermite (as claimed by one theory). I've heard car accidents
described as explosions because people tend to link any loud, thunderous
noise as being an explosion in their description, to take 'it sounded
like something exploded' and make the assumption that explosives were
used is ludicrous and it's certainly not above those pushing an agenda
to make those kinds of connections

here's a prime example of the 'explosion' statement from an eye witness,
yet we know there was in fact no explosion on these trains




Quote:
If the feds didn't ship most of the remains overseas before it could be investigated, and then mingle their way through Afghanistan and into Iraq by lying about WMD's I might be inclined to believe they have nothing to hide.


this discussion should really be addressed in another forum because much
of the remains were investigated and WMDs were found in Iraq, how did we
know they were there... because we've had that knowledge for years.


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13134418 -

Prisoner#1 said:
I've heard car accidents described as explosions because people tend to link any loud, thunderous noise as being an explosion in their description, to take 'it sounded like something exploded' and make the assumption that explosives were used is ludicrous and it's certainly not above those pushing an agenda to make those kinds of connections


Agreed that eyewitness testimony should be looked at carefully, but I don't think it should automatically be regarded as unreliable.  When multiple people have similar accounts its starts to build a convincing case, and while sounds of explosions can be attributed to many things, the reports of visible damage in the basement and lobby of one of the towers at the time of impact remains to be fully explained.  or maybe it has?

I don't know man, I haven't spent a lot of time researching the details of 9/11 lately as I've already come to accept that the official story is impossible.  Perhaps I am mistaken to have done so, but my main focus now is to promote the idea that a new investigation should be conducted, if for nothing else but to get all the 9/11 truthers to shut up then I don't see why anybody would think of at that as a bad idea.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #13135086 -

I'm just curious as to why the government would engineer such an event in the first place. Truthers argue was to get us into a war in the middle east, but we've pissed off enough Arabs so that was entirely unnecessary. Besides being a fantastic budget-buster, war is really bad for a country even if it wins. And besides the government is too incompetent to pull off such a finely coordinated stunt.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13135988 -

we've been fighting in the middle east for more than 2 decades, throughout
clintons administration we fought muslims on two continents, we fought
christians in eastern europe, we've been tangled in everyone's politics
since before anyone can remember, you're right, we didnt need an excuse,
we were already there it just wasnt declared


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13137297 -

ToiletDuk said:
I'm just curious as to why the government would engineer such an event in the first place.  Truthers argue was to get us into a war in the middle east, but we've pissed off enough Arabs so that was entirely unnecessary. Besides being a fantastic budget-buster, war is really bad for a country even if it wins.


I don't think the 'why' should be thought of as being any one thing.. it is more likely that the reasons are multi-faceted.  Consider the aftermath in the years following.. war is big business and the companies getting all the weapons contracts certainly aren't complaining.  Whether or not the U.S. was already stationed there doesn't dispute the fact that there was a large increase of resources in that region.  The media loves an ongoing crisis to focus on as there is a lot of money to be made there as well.  For citizens the idea that your country was attacked by a foreign enemy serves as a means of generating support for war as well as legitimizing the need for the current government body.  The capitalist system as it stands would probably be considered obsolete by now had they not had the media to sell it to us constantly as if we didn't have any other options.

Quote:
And besides the government is too incompetent to pull off such a finely coordinated stunt.


I suppose that is the beauty of it, although in some respects I'd say it was more of a sloppy effort than a finely coordinated one.  Whether it was intentional or not the unfolding of it has had people bickering about what they should and shouldn't believe so intensely that they basically won a free ticket to get away with whatever they've wanted since then.

Edited by ekomstop (09/02/10 06:31 AM)

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 1
    #13137735 -

Anyone who thinks Osama Bin Laden was the lone gun-man on 9/11 needs to check what they have their head stuck in.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13137738 -

ToiletDuk said:
I'm just curious as to why the government would engineer such an event in the first place. Truthers argue was to get us into a war in the middle east, but we've pissed off enough Arabs so that was entirely unnecessary. Besides being a fantastic budget-buster, war is really bad for a country even if it wins. And besides the government is too incompetent to pull off such a finely coordinated stunt.


Maybe it was the trillion dollars of minerals found under Afghanistan in the 1970's by the Soviets

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #13137749 -

With a war bill that's about to reach that amount? Come on.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 1
    #13137787 -

ekomstop said:
The capitalist system as it stands would probably be considered obsolete by now had they not had the media to sell it to us constantly as if we didn't have any other options.



pfffff.... get out of here

Why hasn't Geo locked this thread. Could probably move it to the romper room.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #13137834 -

ClammyJoe said:
Anyone who thinks Osama Bin Laden was the lone gun-man on 9/11 needs to check what they have their head stuck in.


Of course there wasn't a lone gunman.  There were 19 of them, plus an organization funded by Bin Laden.


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #13138268 -

you really are crazy if you believe the attack was a government plot. 

Do you really think the government would be able to cover up the real nature of an attack of that size and complexity, with millions of journalists trying to get the "inside scoop"?

Do you really think it is convincing when your arguments rely upon the "investigations" of individuals who have come up with several bunk conspiracy theories before.  Isn't it strange that conspiracy theorists are the only common denominator in all these fantasies.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Noetical]
    #13138521 -

Noetical said:
move it to the romper room.



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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 4
    #13142064 -

ekomstop said:
Prisoner#1 said:
I've heard car accidents described as explosions because people tend to link any loud, thunderous noise as being an explosion in their description, to take 'it sounded like something exploded' and make the assumption that explosives were used is ludicrous and it's certainly not above those pushing an agenda to make those kinds of connections


Agreed that eyewitness testimony should be looked at carefully, but I don't think it should automatically be regarded as unreliable.


Nor did he say it should- this underlies one of the most common problems with this subject- shifting the burden of proof.

Pris has no burden to show an explosion was or was not present nor that the person was or was not reliable.  If you assert an explosion was present or that whatever events occured, it is no boon to you that your opponent cannot prove an explosion wasn't present or that a witness wasn't reliable.  Your argument must stand on its own, and in these 9/11 threads: they almost universally fall far short.

In all the threads over the years about this subject the one overriding problem has been people shifting the burden of proof to cast their incoherent nonsense as something more than it is.

They claim that if anomalous phenomena exists then this backs their case, that if you can't refute their argument this backs their argument, and so on.

Add in an argument from ignorance as you've done here, claiming you don't know what happened and just want to discover the truth (when your position is obviously far more than this), and you get some muddy pointless rhetoric.

Nobody is against investigating things, so your argument from ignorance hinging thereupon is both pointless and distracting.  If you believe a particular event occured then show why this is probable- all the tricks and fallacious reasoning employed to escape this burden is exactly why people are sick of these topics- the very people who argue for inspection and fair investigation are constantly making incoherent arguments and illogical assertions to justify their argument or at least muddy the water so much it can't be shown wrong (which they somehow construe as supportive due to their constant shifting of the burden of proof as to every aspect of this issue).

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: johnm214]
    #13142193 -

:thumbup:


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13142327 -

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Please keep conspiracy theory discussions in the conspiracy theory (sub)forum.

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