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Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth * 6
    #13108832 -

Do the counter culture a favor and promote a more lenient attitude towards people posting information about 9/11.  Whether you believe in a conspiracy or not, people should have an equal opportunity to express their ideas and concerns in the matter with out their threads being moved to a cave in an unrelated form.  With the anniversary approaching, more people are likely going to be posing new threads about 9/11, so perhaps a sticky thread to house discussions could be created to discourage multiple posts in 'unrelated' forums.  It would be more productive than the current policy, and being a community geared toward the counterculture I think if the mods were encouraged to be more welcoming of people who are exercising their right to ask questions and spread information it would go a long way in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 1
    #13108940 -

lol, LOL, lol, LOL

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Noetical]
    #13108953 -

And lol again. :tongue2:

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 1
    #13109070 -

I can haz tinfoil?


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13109237 -

Personally I don't see why people get so focused on 9/11, when the Eskimos still haven't faced justice for what they did to Pearl Harbor. They want you to forget!

Really though, feedback is appreciated and I don't mean to blow you off. The thing is, 9/11 truthers are a small but extremely vocal minority. Perhaps someday, history will vindicate you. But in the absence of direct evidence, you come off as annoyingly paranoid, persistent, and impervious to reason. If you wish to gain credibility and respect, I suggest you focus on unearthing proof to support your claims, rather than proselytizing to an unreceptive audience. You are certainly free to discuss your views in the appropriate forum, but if you want to force your message in front of people, just buy an ad like everyone else.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Ythan] * 2
    #13109366 -

Ythan said:
but if you want to force your message in front of people, just buy an ad like everyone else.


Nice try.


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!

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: jewunit] * 3
    #13109423 -

ythan has a grand scheme


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Ythan] * 3
    #13109494 -

Ythan said:
Personally I don't see why people get so focused on 9/11, when the Eskimos still haven't faced justice for what they did to Pearl Harbor. They want you to forget!

Really though, feedback is appreciated and I don't mean to blow you off. The thing is, 9/11 truthers are a small but extremely vocal minority. Perhaps someday, history will vindicate you. But in the absence of direct evidence, you come off as annoyingly paranoid, persistent, and impervious to reason. If you wish to gain credibility and respect, I suggest you focus on unearthing proof to support your claims, rather than proselytizing to an unreceptive audience. You are certainly free to discuss your views in the appropriate forum, but if you want to force your message in front of people, just buy an ad like everyone else.


Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it.  The cult of debunkers on this forum and others have taken leaps of faith of (at least) equal degrees as the people asking questions.  The evidence can be seen in a 15 second video of the demolition of building 7 collapsing, and the fact that you have had such a problem with threads about September 11th makes me think that the minority you speak of is a little bigger than your willing to admit.  We are vocal because we believe it is crucial, just as you believed it was crucial to start this website to help people make informed choices.  I'd wager that this is more about maintaining a reputation that is profitable and (understandably) unlikely do draw unwanted attention.  In a community this large I wonder why there is isn't more activism and public involvement being encouraged, I used to think it was something great but now it just seems to have grown into this blob that exists on the internet to distract people while the world falls apart around us.

I'm sorry I guess I am just dissapointed to see such serious matters downplayed and continuously removed to some trivial fantasy forum which has little to do with the matters at hand.  I've said all I wanted to say so I guess I'll just leave it at that. 

Cheers//

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13109512 -

cult of debunkers, LOL


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #13109857 -

Ythan said:
Personally I don't see why people get so focused on 9/11, when the Eskimos still haven't faced justice for what they did to Pearl Harbor. They want you to forget!

Really though, feedback is appreciated and I don't mean to blow you off. The thing is, 9/11 truthers are a small but extremely vocal minority. Perhaps someday, history will vindicate you. But in the absence of direct evidence, you come off as annoyingly paranoid, persistent, and impervious to reason. If you wish to gain credibility and respect, I suggest you focus on unearthing proof to support your claims, rather than proselytizing to an unreceptive audience. You are certainly free to discuss your views in the appropriate forum, but if you want to force your message in front of people, just buy an ad like everyone else.




I would not call it a large movement,
but it is certainly not a small one either.


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Edited by WScott (08/27/10 12:52 PM)

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: WScott]
    #13110548 -



Terrorists did not attack the towers, nor was it an inside job by our government, the absolute truth of the matter is... Hulkamania just ran wild on the towers.


Or did the fresh prince get to them?... the plot thickens

Edited by kundalini1123 (08/27/10 03:27 PM)

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: kundalini1123]
    #13110690 -



Couldn't help it.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Newbie]
    #13110748 -

Does nothing escape parody? :strokebeard:


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: WScott]
    #13110757 -

Nothing should ever be held above parody, ever.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #13110840 -

you know what they say, if you can't beat em laugh at em, I am a firm believer in this.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: kundalini1123] * 1
    #13112296 -

Ignoring building seven is a fucking slap in the face to all the victims that died that day and those who continue to suffer. Those who can't do research and laugh about it are far worse than annoying truthers.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Delicious Apes] * 3
    #13114930 -

idk i think i have to disagree....nothing is more annoying than the truthers.


--------------------
What Would Dexter Do?

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: usefulidiot13] * 1
    #13115069 -

i'm gonna have to chime in here

and say that quite simply, we don't know the truth about it for absolute certain

as open minded as I am to any possibility on the topic, there isn't 100% incontestable evidence which clearly reveals the whole truth of the matter

and for that reason, as much as I can see why some would take offense to this "censorship", I ultimately cannot disagree with 9/11 threads being moved to the conspiracy theory section



does that mean I think you're retarded if you think it was an inside job or such? no, it means while you may be on to something, there is too much on either side of the debate. It often starts flame wars and other stuff.


either way, you don't want terrorists OR inside government conspirators causing so much "divide & conquer", so its best that we leave these arguments, which can get pretty heated and perhaps rightfully so, out of forum sections where the aim is to be a community.



:2cents:


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Delicious Apes] * 2
    #13115148 -

Delicious Apes said:
Ignoring building seven is a fucking slap in the face to all the victims that died that day and those who continue to suffer. Those who can't do research and laugh about it are far worse than annoying truthers.



what about those of us who can do research, and actually know people that died that day; i worked at 199 chambers st in 2001, and building fucking 7 debris fell into us and our building was closed for almost 5 damn years.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/fiterman-hall/bmcc-cuny/prweb3282854.htm

a lot of us find all this truther alex jones bullshit alot more of a slap in the face than making a joke about what happened.

and OMR is a long time new yorker, so i'm sure he gets it.


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Taco Chef]
    #13126371 -

awesome /thread


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13127744 -

ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it.


Maybe if you presented actual reliable evidence like a normal person. This seems to be a rare approach among the Truthers.

Quote:
The cult of debunkers on this forum and others have taken leaps of faith of (at least) equal degrees as the people asking questions.


:rolleyes: "Cult of" debunkers? Please, you're as bad as creationists claiming that science is a religion. And you think you're "asking questions"? You're sure you already know the answers. We're the ones asking the questions here, trying to figure out what actually happened, rather than getting a boner by pretending to have unmasked some massive, secret conspiracy.


Quote:
The evidence can be seen in a 15 second video of the demolition of building 7 collapsing,


If the body of your evidence exists in a 15-second video, you don't have much of a case at all.

Quote:
and the fact that you have had such a problem with threads about September 11th makes me think that the minority you speak of is a little bigger than your willing to admit.


Not really, every once in awhile the odd nutjob comes in here or in the pub and complains about how they're being "censored," when in reality it's just mods housecleaning and moving all the conspiracy theory threads to the same spot. The "9/11 Truth" movement is based on a conspiracy theory, make no doubt about that. You're in the same league as the people who believe that the moon landing was faked.


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: NetDiver]
    #13127815 -

Says the 18yo anime sage... :lol: couldn't resist! :lol:

It makes me no difference - if it was our doing then that will be on a news show in 10-20 years anyway like Pearl Harbor...


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise

No makin funna my pomes!

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Taco Chef] * 1
    #13128112 -

novumorganum said:
what about those of us who can do research, and actually know people that died that day; i worked at 199 chambers st in 2001, and building fucking 7 debris fell into us and our building was closed for almost 5 damn years.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/fiterman-hall/bmcc-cuny/prweb3282854.htm

a lot of us find all this truther alex jones bullshit alot more of a slap in the face than making a joke about what happened.

and OMR is a long time new yorker, so i'm sure he gets it.


I can understand that some people might take offense to the idea the official story for 9/11 is a lie, what doesn't make sense to me is why these same people keep popping up as debunkers in the threads.  The majority of 'debunking' done on this board is a mix of personal attacks, telling jokes, and claiming that any evidence they're presented with isn't good enough.  If you lived in New York at the time or knew someone who died on 9/11 I offer my sincere condolences, but you should know that there are many others in the truth movement who did as well.  Perhaps you should consider getting in touch with Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change and see the extent that people have had to go to seek answers in these matters over the last 9 years.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13128225 -

“History is merely a list of surprises…..It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again.”

            Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Writer



“Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true.”

            Francis Bacon (1561-1626) Philosopher

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #13128233 -

Both excellent statements.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13128286 -

So, those airliners didn't crash in to the buildings? OUTRAEG! :grrr:

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard] * 1
    #13128299 -

Nope.  The planes landed safely at a gov't base while model planes were flown in last second and the charges went off.  Everyone was relocated to the south and sworn to secrecy.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Newbie]
    #13128384 -

I know who dunnit!



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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Silversoul]
    #13128706 -

This would be a great moment to post an awebig sized version of :facepalm: or even :picard:.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13128958 -

ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it. 



wouldnt that hold true for the Truth® movement as well?


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13129452 -

Prisoner#1 said:
ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it. 



wouldnt that hold true for the Truth® movement as well?


Technically it should hold true for both sides, but I suppose the problem herein lies in the maturity levels of those continuously jumping the gun vs. those who want an honest debate.  The fact that the truth movement is so marketable should be evidence enough, I mean when was the last time you saw someone wearing a t-shirt praising the pancake effect?

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13129587 -

The scientologist did it!


--------------------
How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Mr.Pink]
    #13129879 -

I knew it! Damn him! :mad:

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13130786 -

ekomstop said:
Prisoner#1 said:
ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it. 



wouldnt that hold true for the Truth® movement as well?


Technically it should hold true for both sides, but I suppose the problem herein lies in the maturity levels of those continuously jumping the gun vs. those who want an honest debate.


I'm all for honest debate it was even tried in the pub yesterday but the
threads creator showed that he wasnt capable of keeping to his own
topic, I've seen much of the evidence from both sides, I have not read
the 9/11 Commission Report, skimmed it a little but haven't read it
thoroughly, I've read several different theories, examined the evidence
presented with them, I answer questions, present evidence and the
refutation comes as name calling and other junk. when I ask questions
they go completely unanswered or I'm given excuses but no answer or I'm
presented with a questions that are nonsense or excessively vague

these are the reasons people dont want the threads in the pub

I do the research and between my experience, knowledge and google to
fill in the gaps, I present a solid case but no one wants it because it
seems they didnt actually research it, dont have the knowledge and arent
willing to take time to seek it


Quote:
The fact that the truth movement is so marketable should be evidence enough, I mean when was the last time you saw someone wearing a t-shirt praising the pancake effect?


remember that term... marketable

if you want the discussion, we have the conspiracy forum for it, if you
want the discussion in the pub, I ask the same of you that I asked of
jack the tripper, you're in charge of the thread, it's up to you to
steer it, you need to be concise with both the questions and answers,
you need to be willing to go well out of your way to get the answers,
commit to an argument, if you contend it was thermite or explosives that
brought the building down then you need to show all that corroborating
evidence and refute the evidence presented to you, if you feel it was
energy beam weapons from outer space, present the evidence without
citing everything Judy Wood posted on her web page, surely there would
be another reference to these weapons being used other than the one time

and one last thing, moving a thread to a forum where it belong isnt
censorship, it's just something to keep from annoying everyone else
in the pub or political discussion, i kinda goes back to the 'respect
your fellow posters' thing, those fellow posters are why we have the
conspiracy theories forum, they wanted it.


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13131915 -

Truthfully I haven't been following very many 9/11 threads lately but from what I've seen your one of the only people here encouraging critical thinking and challenging others with relatively fair arguments.  The censorship I was referring to was more of a reaction to the general attitude towards any mention of a 9/11 conspiracy.. as somebody who questions pretty much anything the government does I don't see how it is reasonable for anyone doing just that to be considered bait to be attacked and ridiculed by other members.  I used to like coming in and debating in the old politics forum though there were a lot of the same problems.  I agree that part of creating a topic includes the responsibly to mediate and account for the information provided, but people responding to a thread also share a responsibility to be respectful and help make it easier for others to do the same.  After going through a few of the 9/11 threads in the conspiracy forum I guess I just wasn't sure if that was the going trend here or not these days.  I apologize if I offended or came off as harsh to anyone, with the anniversary approaching I guess I was just disappointed to see the subject and particularly those that don't buy into the official story being joked about like they're all a bunch of crazies or something.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13131923 -

I think Carlin(like always R.I.P.)talks alot of common sense in this video on the subject and I 100% agree with him


--------------------
How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13132339 -

we've had a particualry bad lot of conspiracy spammers here over the last year or so (of almost every stripe) so there is also a lot of conspiracy fatigue on the board. some days over the past year there would be 4-5 conspiracy threads plastered over the pub, usually started by the same cabal of you tube scholars, and almost always involving someone telling us we are in the grip of :satan:


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13132967 -

ekomstop said:
I guess I was just disappointed to see the subject and particularly those that don't buy into the official story being joked about like they're all a bunch of crazies or something.


I guess you dont see what's really happening, if someone believes the
official story they're ridiculed, they're called closed minded, shills
and dozens of other colorful names simply because they disagree with the
conspiracy theories. these folks cant admit that they're the ones that are
unwilling to listen to the other side. the truthers tend to get pissed
because their threads get moved when it breaks down into the bullshit that
it always does and they create a dozen more threads on other forums on
the same topic and get even more enraged when those are moved or locked


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13133110 -

Prisoner#1 said:
ekomstop said:
I guess I was just disappointed to see the subject and particularly those that don't buy into the official story being joked about like they're all a bunch of crazies or something.


I guess you dont see what's really happening, if someone believes the
official story they're ridiculed, they're called closed minded, shills
and dozens of other colorful names simply because they disagree with the
conspiracy theories. these folks cant admit that they're the ones that are
unwilling to listen to the other side. the truthers tend to get pissed
because their threads get moved when it breaks down into the bullshit that
it always does and they create a dozen more threads on other forums on
the same topic and get even more enraged when those are moved or locked



u ever think that the ppl who don't believe in the conspiracies and focus on the evidence, may be missing a particular puzzle piece that only the conspiracy theorists have?


Such as there is something missing, and both sides have the answer towards each sides questioning kinda thang.



prolly hard to find, but u gotta understand there wouldn't be such a conflict if both sides didn't have some sort of hard to dispute reason for doin' thangs

im a lil drunk right now so if u dont understand the thang im tryin do do, then its wahtever and feelsgoodman.



the only thang that sux is when threads get so long, and ppl argue and thangs, its like why bother readin' pages of ppl arguing

its funny too, in a way cuz both sides tend to say the other side is close minded.
:tongue:


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13133509 -

Prisoner#1 said:
these folks cant admit that they're the ones that are
unwilling to listen to the other side.


In many cases I think the same could be said for either side of the debate, as most people seem to enter threads with a desire to uphold a belief that's already in place.  I'd probably be open to the idea that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 if the FBI didn't claim there was no hard evidence to support that theory.  I might even think it is unlikely that there were bombs in the towers if eyewitnesses didn't claim to have seen/heard explosions on multiple instances.  If the feds didn't ship most of the remains overseas before it could be investigated, and then mingle their way through Afghanistan and into Iraq by lying about WMD's I might be inclined to believe they have nothing to hide.  Anything could probably be explained with the proper rhetoric, but if the topic at hand always leads to attacks and flaming, how can either side be taken seriously?  I think that was the initial point of this post, I see now that it is something that everyone is aware of so maybe it was one of those instances where it would have been best to keep my mouth shut.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: I AM SWIM] * 1
    #13133751 -

I AM SWIM said:
u ever think that the ppl who don't believe in the conspiracies and focus on the evidence, may be missing a particular puzzle piece that only the conspiracy theorists have?


if that extra puzzle piece is an extra chromosome then I can certainly believe it :smirk:

if they have it why havent they shared it




Quote:
prolly hard to find, but u gotta understand there wouldn't be such a conflict if both sides didn't have some sort of hard to dispute reason for doin' thangs



no, most of what;s spread as 'truth' is based on loose observation and
comparison to what they believe to be identical to something else, no
facts needed. claims are made such as the "no steel structure has fallen
prior to 9/11 due to fire, that's what the FEMA report says!!!" which is
an omission of fact and a blatant lie, the fact omitted would be the
report claims 'no large steel structure with fire suppression...', it
doesnt matter that they can quickly google hundreds of images of steel
buildings that have collapsed due to fire alone, those are suddenly not
evidence because they're different...

almost all the claims are easy to debunk, most are based on an omission of key pieces of evidence/information or based on 'eye witness' testimony, something that cops will tell you is very unreliable

there is certainly proven complicity from government in this event, it
was released in 11/2001 that the FBI had gathered intel showing that
terrorists with Al Qaida had plans to hijack planes and hit several
targets, in 1993 a previous attempt was made on the WTC buildings by Al
Qaida so it's a big indicator that they would probably try again and of
course the whitehouse/FBI directors dismissed it quickly stating that it
wasnt within their scope of power to investigate it even though that's
one of their primary duties

should there be another investigation... absolutely but it shouldnt be
based on the crap that conspiracy theorists are trying to choke down our
throats, it needs to start with the FBI and their failure to act upon
actionable intelligence and continue to the white house. basing it on
all this other crap before establishing the chain of custody on this
intel is what's preventing people from learning the actual truth




Quote:
its funny too, in a way cuz both sides tend to say the other side is close minded.
:tongue:


not really... it's usually only one side doing that here, I've always
contended that open mindedness to those that say they have one is
nothing more that 'agree with me or you're a closed minded fool'

"open mindedness is just another way of saying you want your brains splattered all over the street" Prisoner#1


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13133811 -

ekomstop said:
I'd probably be open to the idea that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 if the FBI didn't claim there was no hard evidence to support that theory.  I might even think it is unlikely that there were bombs in the towers if eyewitnesses didn't claim to have seen/heard explosions on multiple instances.


some eyewitnesses saw planes, others saw missiles, others saw nothing,
when a robbery occurs there's a dozen different accounts given by
different witnesses, eye witness testimony is unreliable, the set up of
a job of that size would take more than a year and more than a thousand
tons of thermite (as claimed by one theory). I've heard car accidents
described as explosions because people tend to link any loud, thunderous
noise as being an explosion in their description, to take 'it sounded
like something exploded' and make the assumption that explosives were
used is ludicrous and it's certainly not above those pushing an agenda
to make those kinds of connections

here's a prime example of the 'explosion' statement from an eye witness,
yet we know there was in fact no explosion on these trains




Quote:
If the feds didn't ship most of the remains overseas before it could be investigated, and then mingle their way through Afghanistan and into Iraq by lying about WMD's I might be inclined to believe they have nothing to hide.


this discussion should really be addressed in another forum because much
of the remains were investigated and WMDs were found in Iraq, how did we
know they were there... because we've had that knowledge for years.


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13134418 -

Prisoner#1 said:
I've heard car accidents described as explosions because people tend to link any loud, thunderous noise as being an explosion in their description, to take 'it sounded like something exploded' and make the assumption that explosives were used is ludicrous and it's certainly not above those pushing an agenda to make those kinds of connections


Agreed that eyewitness testimony should be looked at carefully, but I don't think it should automatically be regarded as unreliable.  When multiple people have similar accounts its starts to build a convincing case, and while sounds of explosions can be attributed to many things, the reports of visible damage in the basement and lobby of one of the towers at the time of impact remains to be fully explained.  or maybe it has?

I don't know man, I haven't spent a lot of time researching the details of 9/11 lately as I've already come to accept that the official story is impossible.  Perhaps I am mistaken to have done so, but my main focus now is to promote the idea that a new investigation should be conducted, if for nothing else but to get all the 9/11 truthers to shut up then I don't see why anybody would think of at that as a bad idea.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #13135086 -

I'm just curious as to why the government would engineer such an event in the first place. Truthers argue was to get us into a war in the middle east, but we've pissed off enough Arabs so that was entirely unnecessary. Besides being a fantastic budget-buster, war is really bad for a country even if it wins. And besides the government is too incompetent to pull off such a finely coordinated stunt.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13135988 -

we've been fighting in the middle east for more than 2 decades, throughout
clintons administration we fought muslims on two continents, we fought
christians in eastern europe, we've been tangled in everyone's politics
since before anyone can remember, you're right, we didnt need an excuse,
we were already there it just wasnt declared


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13137297 -

ToiletDuk said:
I'm just curious as to why the government would engineer such an event in the first place.  Truthers argue was to get us into a war in the middle east, but we've pissed off enough Arabs so that was entirely unnecessary. Besides being a fantastic budget-buster, war is really bad for a country even if it wins.


I don't think the 'why' should be thought of as being any one thing.. it is more likely that the reasons are multi-faceted.  Consider the aftermath in the years following.. war is big business and the companies getting all the weapons contracts certainly aren't complaining.  Whether or not the U.S. was already stationed there doesn't dispute the fact that there was a large increase of resources in that region.  The media loves an ongoing crisis to focus on as there is a lot of money to be made there as well.  For citizens the idea that your country was attacked by a foreign enemy serves as a means of generating support for war as well as legitimizing the need for the current government body.  The capitalist system as it stands would probably be considered obsolete by now had they not had the media to sell it to us constantly as if we didn't have any other options.

Quote:
And besides the government is too incompetent to pull off such a finely coordinated stunt.


I suppose that is the beauty of it, although in some respects I'd say it was more of a sloppy effort than a finely coordinated one.  Whether it was intentional or not the unfolding of it has had people bickering about what they should and shouldn't believe so intensely that they basically won a free ticket to get away with whatever they've wanted since then.

Edited by ekomstop (09/02/10 06:31 AM)

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 1
    #13137735 -

Anyone who thinks Osama Bin Laden was the lone gun-man on 9/11 needs to check what they have their head stuck in.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13137738 -

ToiletDuk said:
I'm just curious as to why the government would engineer such an event in the first place. Truthers argue was to get us into a war in the middle east, but we've pissed off enough Arabs so that was entirely unnecessary. Besides being a fantastic budget-buster, war is really bad for a country even if it wins. And besides the government is too incompetent to pull off such a finely coordinated stunt.


Maybe it was the trillion dollars of minerals found under Afghanistan in the 1970's by the Soviets

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #13137749 -

With a war bill that's about to reach that amount? Come on.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 1
    #13137787 -

ekomstop said:
The capitalist system as it stands would probably be considered obsolete by now had they not had the media to sell it to us constantly as if we didn't have any other options.



pfffff.... get out of here

Why hasn't Geo locked this thread. Could probably move it to the romper room.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #13137834 -

ClammyJoe said:
Anyone who thinks Osama Bin Laden was the lone gun-man on 9/11 needs to check what they have their head stuck in.


Of course there wasn't a lone gunman.  There were 19 of them, plus an organization funded by Bin Laden.


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #13138268 -

you really are crazy if you believe the attack was a government plot. 

Do you really think the government would be able to cover up the real nature of an attack of that size and complexity, with millions of journalists trying to get the "inside scoop"?

Do you really think it is convincing when your arguments rely upon the "investigations" of individuals who have come up with several bunk conspiracy theories before.  Isn't it strange that conspiracy theorists are the only common denominator in all these fantasies.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Noetical]
    #13138521 -

Noetical said:
move it to the romper room.



--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop] * 4
    #13142064 -

ekomstop said:
Prisoner#1 said:
I've heard car accidents described as explosions because people tend to link any loud, thunderous noise as being an explosion in their description, to take 'it sounded like something exploded' and make the assumption that explosives were used is ludicrous and it's certainly not above those pushing an agenda to make those kinds of connections


Agreed that eyewitness testimony should be looked at carefully, but I don't think it should automatically be regarded as unreliable.


Nor did he say it should- this underlies one of the most common problems with this subject- shifting the burden of proof.

Pris has no burden to show an explosion was or was not present nor that the person was or was not reliable.  If you assert an explosion was present or that whatever events occured, it is no boon to you that your opponent cannot prove an explosion wasn't present or that a witness wasn't reliable.  Your argument must stand on its own, and in these 9/11 threads: they almost universally fall far short.

In all the threads over the years about this subject the one overriding problem has been people shifting the burden of proof to cast their incoherent nonsense as something more than it is.

They claim that if anomalous phenomena exists then this backs their case, that if you can't refute their argument this backs their argument, and so on.

Add in an argument from ignorance as you've done here, claiming you don't know what happened and just want to discover the truth (when your position is obviously far more than this), and you get some muddy pointless rhetoric.

Nobody is against investigating things, so your argument from ignorance hinging thereupon is both pointless and distracting.  If you believe a particular event occured then show why this is probable- all the tricks and fallacious reasoning employed to escape this burden is exactly why people are sick of these topics- the very people who argue for inspection and fair investigation are constantly making incoherent arguments and illogical assertions to justify their argument or at least muddy the water so much it can't be shown wrong (which they somehow construe as supportive due to their constant shifting of the burden of proof as to every aspect of this issue).

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: johnm214]
    #13142193 -

:thumbup:


--------------------




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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13142327 -

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Please keep conspiracy theory discussions in the conspiracy theory (sub)forum.

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