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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13127744 -

ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it.


Maybe if you presented actual reliable evidence like a normal person. This seems to be a rare approach among the Truthers.

Quote:
The cult of debunkers on this forum and others have taken leaps of faith of (at least) equal degrees as the people asking questions.


:rolleyes: "Cult of" debunkers? Please, you're as bad as creationists claiming that science is a religion. And you think you're "asking questions"? You're sure you already know the answers. We're the ones asking the questions here, trying to figure out what actually happened, rather than getting a boner by pretending to have unmasked some massive, secret conspiracy.


Quote:
The evidence can be seen in a 15 second video of the demolition of building 7 collapsing,


If the body of your evidence exists in a 15-second video, you don't have much of a case at all.

Quote:
and the fact that you have had such a problem with threads about September 11th makes me think that the minority you speak of is a little bigger than your willing to admit.


Not really, every once in awhile the odd nutjob comes in here or in the pub and complains about how they're being "censored," when in reality it's just mods housecleaning and moving all the conspiracy theory threads to the same spot. The "9/11 Truth" movement is based on a conspiracy theory, make no doubt about that. You're in the same league as the people who believe that the moon landing was faked.


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: NetDiver]
    #13127815 -

Says the 18yo anime sage... :lol: couldn't resist! :lol:

It makes me no difference - if it was our doing then that will be on a news show in 10-20 years anyway like Pearl Harbor...


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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise

No makin funna my pomes!

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Taco Chef] * 1
    #13128112 -

novumorganum said:
what about those of us who can do research, and actually know people that died that day; i worked at 199 chambers st in 2001, and building fucking 7 debris fell into us and our building was closed for almost 5 damn years.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/fiterman-hall/bmcc-cuny/prweb3282854.htm

a lot of us find all this truther alex jones bullshit alot more of a slap in the face than making a joke about what happened.

and OMR is a long time new yorker, so i'm sure he gets it.


I can understand that some people might take offense to the idea the official story for 9/11 is a lie, what doesn't make sense to me is why these same people keep popping up as debunkers in the threads.  The majority of 'debunking' done on this board is a mix of personal attacks, telling jokes, and claiming that any evidence they're presented with isn't good enough.  If you lived in New York at the time or knew someone who died on 9/11 I offer my sincere condolences, but you should know that there are many others in the truth movement who did as well.  Perhaps you should consider getting in touch with Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change and see the extent that people have had to go to seek answers in these matters over the last 9 years.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13128225 -

“History is merely a list of surprises…..It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again.”

            Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Writer



“Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true.”

            Francis Bacon (1561-1626) Philosopher

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #13128233 -

Both excellent statements.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13128286 -

So, those airliners didn't crash in to the buildings? OUTRAEG! :grrr:

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Le_Canard] * 1
    #13128299 -

Nope.  The planes landed safely at a gov't base while model planes were flown in last second and the charges went off.  Everyone was relocated to the south and sworn to secrecy.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Newbie]
    #13128384 -

I know who dunnit!



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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Silversoul]
    #13128706 -

This would be a great moment to post an awebig sized version of :facepalm: or even :picard:.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13128958 -

ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it. 



wouldnt that hold true for the Truth® movement as well?


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13129452 -

Prisoner#1 said:
ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it. 



wouldnt that hold true for the Truth® movement as well?


Technically it should hold true for both sides, but I suppose the problem herein lies in the maturity levels of those continuously jumping the gun vs. those who want an honest debate.  The fact that the truth movement is so marketable should be evidence enough, I mean when was the last time you saw someone wearing a t-shirt praising the pancake effect?

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13129587 -

The scientologist did it!


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How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Mr.Pink]
    #13129879 -

I knew it! Damn him! :mad:

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13130786 -

ekomstop said:
Prisoner#1 said:
ekomstop said:
Evidence is only useful if people are willing to look at it. 



wouldnt that hold true for the Truth® movement as well?


Technically it should hold true for both sides, but I suppose the problem herein lies in the maturity levels of those continuously jumping the gun vs. those who want an honest debate.


I'm all for honest debate it was even tried in the pub yesterday but the
threads creator showed that he wasnt capable of keeping to his own
topic, I've seen much of the evidence from both sides, I have not read
the 9/11 Commission Report, skimmed it a little but haven't read it
thoroughly, I've read several different theories, examined the evidence
presented with them, I answer questions, present evidence and the
refutation comes as name calling and other junk. when I ask questions
they go completely unanswered or I'm given excuses but no answer or I'm
presented with a questions that are nonsense or excessively vague

these are the reasons people dont want the threads in the pub

I do the research and between my experience, knowledge and google to
fill in the gaps, I present a solid case but no one wants it because it
seems they didnt actually research it, dont have the knowledge and arent
willing to take time to seek it


Quote:
The fact that the truth movement is so marketable should be evidence enough, I mean when was the last time you saw someone wearing a t-shirt praising the pancake effect?


remember that term... marketable

if you want the discussion, we have the conspiracy forum for it, if you
want the discussion in the pub, I ask the same of you that I asked of
jack the tripper, you're in charge of the thread, it's up to you to
steer it, you need to be concise with both the questions and answers,
you need to be willing to go well out of your way to get the answers,
commit to an argument, if you contend it was thermite or explosives that
brought the building down then you need to show all that corroborating
evidence and refute the evidence presented to you, if you feel it was
energy beam weapons from outer space, present the evidence without
citing everything Judy Wood posted on her web page, surely there would
be another reference to these weapons being used other than the one time

and one last thing, moving a thread to a forum where it belong isnt
censorship, it's just something to keep from annoying everyone else
in the pub or political discussion, i kinda goes back to the 'respect
your fellow posters' thing, those fellow posters are why we have the
conspiracy theories forum, they wanted it.


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13131915 -

Truthfully I haven't been following very many 9/11 threads lately but from what I've seen your one of the only people here encouraging critical thinking and challenging others with relatively fair arguments.  The censorship I was referring to was more of a reaction to the general attitude towards any mention of a 9/11 conspiracy.. as somebody who questions pretty much anything the government does I don't see how it is reasonable for anyone doing just that to be considered bait to be attacked and ridiculed by other members.  I used to like coming in and debating in the old politics forum though there were a lot of the same problems.  I agree that part of creating a topic includes the responsibly to mediate and account for the information provided, but people responding to a thread also share a responsibility to be respectful and help make it easier for others to do the same.  After going through a few of the 9/11 threads in the conspiracy forum I guess I just wasn't sure if that was the going trend here or not these days.  I apologize if I offended or came off as harsh to anyone, with the anniversary approaching I guess I was just disappointed to see the subject and particularly those that don't buy into the official story being joked about like they're all a bunch of crazies or something.

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13131923 -

I think Carlin(like always R.I.P.)talks alot of common sense in this video on the subject and I 100% agree with him


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How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13132339 -

we've had a particualry bad lot of conspiracy spammers here over the last year or so (of almost every stripe) so there is also a lot of conspiracy fatigue on the board. some days over the past year there would be 4-5 conspiracy threads plastered over the pub, usually started by the same cabal of you tube scholars, and almost always involving someone telling us we are in the grip of :satan:


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: ekomstop]
    #13132967 -

ekomstop said:
I guess I was just disappointed to see the subject and particularly those that don't buy into the official story being joked about like they're all a bunch of crazies or something.


I guess you dont see what's really happening, if someone believes the
official story they're ridiculed, they're called closed minded, shills
and dozens of other colorful names simply because they disagree with the
conspiracy theories. these folks cant admit that they're the ones that are
unwilling to listen to the other side. the truthers tend to get pissed
because their threads get moved when it breaks down into the bullshit that
it always does and they create a dozen more threads on other forums on
the same topic and get even more enraged when those are moved or locked


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13133110 -

Prisoner#1 said:
ekomstop said:
I guess I was just disappointed to see the subject and particularly those that don't buy into the official story being joked about like they're all a bunch of crazies or something.


I guess you dont see what's really happening, if someone believes the
official story they're ridiculed, they're called closed minded, shills
and dozens of other colorful names simply because they disagree with the
conspiracy theories. these folks cant admit that they're the ones that are
unwilling to listen to the other side. the truthers tend to get pissed
because their threads get moved when it breaks down into the bullshit that
it always does and they create a dozen more threads on other forums on
the same topic and get even more enraged when those are moved or locked



u ever think that the ppl who don't believe in the conspiracies and focus on the evidence, may be missing a particular puzzle piece that only the conspiracy theorists have?


Such as there is something missing, and both sides have the answer towards each sides questioning kinda thang.



prolly hard to find, but u gotta understand there wouldn't be such a conflict if both sides didn't have some sort of hard to dispute reason for doin' thangs

im a lil drunk right now so if u dont understand the thang im tryin do do, then its wahtever and feelsgoodman.



the only thang that sux is when threads get so long, and ppl argue and thangs, its like why bother readin' pages of ppl arguing

its funny too, in a way cuz both sides tend to say the other side is close minded.
:tongue:


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Re: Stop Censoring 9/11 Truth [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13133509 -

Prisoner#1 said:
these folks cant admit that they're the ones that are
unwilling to listen to the other side.


In many cases I think the same could be said for either side of the debate, as most people seem to enter threads with a desire to uphold a belief that's already in place.  I'd probably be open to the idea that Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 if the FBI didn't claim there was no hard evidence to support that theory.  I might even think it is unlikely that there were bombs in the towers if eyewitnesses didn't claim to have seen/heard explosions on multiple instances.  If the feds didn't ship most of the remains overseas before it could be investigated, and then mingle their way through Afghanistan and into Iraq by lying about WMD's I might be inclined to believe they have nothing to hide.  Anything could probably be explained with the proper rhetoric, but if the topic at hand always leads to attacks and flaming, how can either side be taken seriously?  I think that was the initial point of this post, I see now that it is something that everyone is aware of so maybe it was one of those instances where it would have been best to keep my mouth shut.

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