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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! These Hateful Wars are NOT Justified! [Re: Your Destination]
    #13054417 -

Your Destination said:
MrBump said:
yeah, that was sad. I didn't see any weapons in their hands? did you?

maybe someone else has better eyes than I do.


Yeah, actually, I did.
Also, note that what you're seeing is a shortened version.
In the full version the team on the ground finds an RPG shell underneath one of the bodies.


Isn't that awfully convenient? I understand why they opened fire, and I can't really say they shouldn't have, but it looks to me like they shot up a bunch of innocents and some photogs then tried to cover themselves by planting a shell, or hell, just saying they found weapons. I didn't see any shoulder-rested AK's, and I feel like someone getting ready to RPG a helicopter would be more aware or it's position and move around the corner for cover as it circled.


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wat man rly

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13054428 -

That isn't entirely correct.  My stepbrother worked for some British security company in Iraq for 18 months as security, they armed him with an AK-47.  Yea, they are like a million variants of the AK-47  Even a lot of special forces guys prefer the AK-47, The Uzi is another top choice.


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13054453 -

Prisoner#1 said:
golden1 said:
I say he is not looking for fame he is doing it for a moral cause. You're trying to discredit his experience by saying he is only seeking fame which seems rather insulting to me.



how is that insulting to you? he's the one grandstanding, what's his take on the insurgents found with the reporters

what about Obamas timeline to have the troops out of iraq 2 months ago


It's insulting because this soldier experienced the horrors of war and feels like he has a moral obligation to show people what it is really like over there and all you can say is that he is seeking his 15minutes of fame.

I have no idea about Obama's timeline, but I can't say I expected him to do anything.

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: golden1]
    #13054503 -

Golden1 you dont even have the slightest fucking clue what they experienced.  As for the two reporters, they were major league stupid for getting anywhere near insurgents with weapons.  What do the expect, the bullets will only hit the combatants?  If I were there, i wouldn't get closer than about 1 miles to anyone suspected of being insurgent, what with the cannon on teh apache.  or ac-130, or A-10/////  Just pathetically fucking stupid...and dead.


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: starfire_xes]
    #13054536 -

starfire_xes said:
Golden1 you dont even have the slightest fucking clue what they experienced.  As for the two reporters, they were major league stupid for getting anywhere near insurgents with weapons.  What do the expect, the bullets will only hit the combatants?  If I were there, i wouldn't get closer than about 1 miles to anyone suspected of being insurgent, what with the cannon on teh apache.  or ac-130, or A-10/////  Just pathetically fucking stupid...and dead.


What, why are you angry? All I'm saying is that war can only be destructive and that this soldier is speaking out and HE does know what he experienced. I didn't say anything to provoke this response from you.. The simple fact the bullets won't only hit combatants is reason enough to stop with this pointless war..

I expect war to be horrifying and terrible in all aspects and that is why I'm against it especially this one since it serves very little good.

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: starfire_xes]
    #13054546 -

Well I believe this soldier is doing the right thing by telling people what he witnessed and experienced.  These would be difficult and traumatic experiences for anyone.  I dont think he's looking for fame, in fact sometimes it takes a lot of courage to stand up and speak publicly about traumatic events.  I honestly do not believe the helicopter was in any danger from these people and (i may be mistaken here) but do men in Iraq not typically walk around bearing arms anyway?  I thought that was a normal thing in their country (again, please correct me if this is wrong). 

Anyway, this is just more evidence that the troops need to come home.  Nobody wants them over there.  And this thread is also more evidence of pris being a troll.

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: golden1]
    #13054639 -

you are right, these wars are completely fucking senseless.  My son is fanatically anti-war now, and he is still in the army.  Soldiers hate war more than anyone else.  I am not angry for the rhetoric I hear, what really, really pisses me off is the way the media manipulates the data to push their fucking agenda, whatever it might be.  As far as starting wars, I think any politician who are trying to get us into wars should be given MMA gloves, put in a fighting octagon, and made to go at it until they are satisfied with sending someone else off to be killed.


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: cole2684]
    #13055021 -

cole2684 said:
I can't help but agree with Prisoner#1, that soldier is looking for publicity or something.



why didnt he come forward at any point prior to the video being released


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: golden1]
    #13055048 -

golden1 said:
It's insulting because this soldier experienced the horrors of war and feels like he has a moral obligation to show people what it is really like over there and all you can say is that he is seeking his 15minutes of fame.


I'm not on camera talking about the horrors of war in bosnia, croatia and
kosovo, a war the US press tried to bury, if you think what's happening in
Iraq is anything in comparison you're wrong, there it was christians
slaughtering muslim civilians and the US stepped up and interceded, and
the atrocities I saw there were far worse than what I've heard about
coming from this most recent conflict

where was his legal and moral obligations to refuse an unlawful order
under UCMJ, where was his morality when he was discharge from active
duty, where were his obligations at any other point, what I saw was some
jackass looking to cash in, he saw an event that was leaked, he was
present and now he's speaking up because he'll get national notoriety


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: starfire_xes]
    #13055076 -

starfire_xes said:
That isn't entirely correct.  My stepbrother worked for some British security company in Iraq for 18 months as security, they armed him with an AK-47.  Yea, they are like a million variants of the AK-47  Even a lot of special forces guys prefer the AK-47, The Uzi is another top choice.



1st and 5th special forces, M4







seal team M4+M103



the few that choose to use the AK do so because of it's distinct report,
it's easier to catch the insurgents off guard with a few bursts from the
AK, they believe there's a firefight and come rushing in to assist their
side, classic ambush


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13055226 -

Prisoner#1 said:
golden1 said:
It's insulting because this soldier experienced the horrors of war and feels like he has a moral obligation to show people what it is really like over there and all you can say is that he is seeking his 15minutes of fame.


I'm not on camera talking about the horrors of war in bosnia, croatia and
kosovo, a war the US press tried to bury, if you think what's happening in
Iraq is anything in comparison you're wrong, there it was christians
slaughtering muslim civilians and the US stepped up and interceded, and
the atrocities I saw there were far worse than what I've heard about
coming from this most recent conflict

where was his legal and moral obligations to refuse an unlawful order
under UCMJ, where was his morality when he was discharge from active
duty, where were his obligations at any other point, what I saw was some
jackass looking to cash in, he saw an event that was leaked, he was
present and now he's speaking up because he'll get national notoriety


Maybe you should be on camera talking about the horrors of war, you're pretty good at arguing for anything so I'm sure you'd do a great job.

It's really hard to grasp your point that he is just doing it for fame. Only because if I was ever in the situation there is no way it would be for the fame.. especially if I witnessed all that he did.

I think he saw that the video was leaked and it gave him the perfect opportunity to explain and try to convince people to bring the troops home. Think about it, if you were in that situation would you be doing it for fame or to end the atrocities you witnessed while at war? We are lucky that he shared his viewpoint of the situation.

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: starfire_xes]
    #13055239 -

How is this guy cashing in on anything?  I think his conscience just overwhelmed him finally and hes doing this because he honestly feels really bad for being a part of the 'war machine' as a whole.

And you ask why didn't he refuse an unlawful order?  Well I dont think he mentions at any point that he was given an order that he knew at the time was unlawful.  As I said above, I think he just sees the whole system as a problem and is trying to raise awareness to the innocent people dying because of it. 

I wish you wouldn't make comments like this, pris.  Even if you dont, there are indeed others around that have a sense of humanity.

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: shroomer17]
    #13055767 -

Just posting so I can watch this later.


--------------------
By the livin' Gawd that made you,
    You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: golden1]
    #13055893 -

golden1 said:
It's really hard to grasp your point that he is just doing it for fame. Only because if I was ever in the situation



I've been in the situation, I didnt come back looking for a chance to
write a book, I mustered out and that was that, I was done with the
shit, I tell people here on the shroomery more about my time than I have
people at home and trust me, I dont tell you guys much


Quote:
I think he saw that the video was leaked and it gave him the perfect opportunity to explain and try to convince people to bring the troops home.


like what the citizens say is going to make a difference especially
based on the words of a handful of soldiers, yes it gave him the perfect
opportunity but it wasnt for convincing anyone of anything, if that was
his goal he's have done it on discharge, now he'll it the talk show
circuit, maybe try and write a book and he'll keep seeking his fame

why do you think the vast majority of soldiers dont come home with this
alleged intention, why do they keep their mouths shut, for me, it's
because I'm not proud of the thing I've had to do, I dont see the
experiences as an excuse to get in front of a bunch of cameras. what was
done was done, I saved many lives, civilian and military, I helped a lot
of civilians to reestablish and rebuild their lives. I made a lot of
friends that appreciated what I did not as a soldier but as a human, I
see them as the heroes because of the strength they had. if they want to
get in front of the cameras and tell america what war is about, more
power to them but that's not a part of my duties

Quote:
Think about it, if you were in that situation would you be doing it for fame or to end the atrocities you witnessed while at war? We are lucky that he shared his viewpoint of the situation.


the views of a soldier means dick compared to the lives he's affected,
maybe this is him trying to absolve himself of things he's done, my
regrets were due to inaction because in acting in some of these
situations would have resulted in far more loss of life


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: shroomer17]
    #13055940 -

shroomer17 said:
How is this guy cashing in on anything?


do you know what he looks like? do you know his name? do you know what
he's done? I do, US Army Spc. Ethan McCord was the one that pulled a kid
from a minivan and requested a medevac, according to his words. what
were the children doing in a van driving into hot combat zone with
'daddy' trying to load bodies into the back



Quote:
I wish you wouldn't make comments like this, pris.  Even if you dont, there are indeed others around that have a sense of humanity.


how does this equate to me not having a sense of humanity


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13056046 -

Prisoner#1 said:
golden1 said:
It's really hard to grasp your point that he is just doing it for fame. Only because if I was ever in the situation



I've been in the situation, I didnt come back looking for a chance to
write a book, I mustered out and that was that, I was done with the
shit, I tell people here on the shroomery more about my time than I have
people at home and trust me, I dont tell you guys much


Quote:
I think he saw that the video was leaked and it gave him the perfect opportunity to explain and try to convince people to bring the troops home.


like what the citizens say is going to make a difference especially
based on the words of a handful of soldiers, yes it gave him the perfect
opportunity but it wasnt for convincing anyone of anything, if that was
his goal he's have done it on discharge, now he'll it the talk show
circuit, maybe try and write a book and he'll keep seeking his fame

why do you think the vast majority of soldiers dont come home with this
alleged intention, why do they keep their mouths shut, for me, it's
because I'm not proud of the thing I've had to do, I dont see the
experiences as an excuse to get in front of a bunch of cameras. what was
done was done, I saved many lives, civilian and military, I helped a lot
of civilians to reestablish and rebuild their lives. I made a lot of
friends that appreciated what I did not as a soldier but as a human, I
see them as the heroes because of the strength they had. if they want to
get in front of the cameras and tell america what war is about, more
power to them but that's not a part of my duties

Quote:
Think about it, if you were in that situation would you be doing it for fame or to end the atrocities you witnessed while at war? We are lucky that he shared his viewpoint of the situation.


the views of a soldier means dick compared to the lives he's affected,
maybe this is him trying to absolve himself of things he's done, my
regrets were due to inaction because in acting in some of these
situations would have resulted in far more loss of life


"if that was his goal he's have done it on discharge"

I really think you're jumping to conclusions here man. What about all the reasons you yourself said for soldiers not wanting to speak out? He probably had his own reasons for not speaking out until now(given the fact that he is now in a widely viewed video, maybe he felt like it was his duty to give his account of what happened along with his feelings about the war in general?).

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13056108 -

Prisoner#1 said:
do you know what he looks like? do you know his name? do you know what
he's done? I do, US Army Spc. Ethan McCord was the one that pulled a kid
from a minivan and requested a medevac, according to his words. what
were the children doing in a van driving into hot combat zone with
'daddy' trying to load bodies into the back



I do, however, see where you are coming from with this and it does make me think, but regardless he is doing a good thing by aiming to stop the war(however I only say that because I am in complete disagreement with this war and our reasoning for being there). I think you have a point, but it's really only your guess at his motives. My guess is that he's had enough of this ongoing war and had the opportunity to speak out against it, so he did. I don't think it can be proven either way.

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: golden1]
    #13056134 -

golden1 said:
I don't think it can be proven either way.


I think it can

we ask him

then we ask again while water boarding him

then we ask again but use real torture

I think he'll tell us


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13056191 -

I want to know the reason behind the van entering the scene. I feel like the identity of the van driver/passenger along with an explanation of the kids' presence would stifle this issue. To me they had no place being there, at all. But I guess that is impossible, seeing as it happened awhile go, in a warzone.


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I'm a man who really enjoys his taffy.
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Re: Our Tax Dollars Pay for THIS?! *UPDATED* [Re: cole2684]
    #13056219 -

there's some claims it was an ambulance but I dont know of any ambulance
drivers that will take their kids to work in a combat zone, the military
suggests he was rescuing anyone alive and that insurgents are known to use
kids in order to throw suspicion at check points

I'm inclined to agree with the military, I'd do everything to keep my kids
out of harms way, and seeing a dozen bloody bodies and hearing the shots
from the gunship, I believe driving in to load bodies would be violating
my obligations as a parent... of course I also dont believe in martyrdom


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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