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InvisibleSpiffy
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Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq
    #1262825 - 01/30/03 06:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I found this articla on AOL News...sorry I can't post a link but it would be useless to anyone without AOL. stupid AOL. But anyway...I thought this was a well written article quoting Nelson Mandela and his opposition to Bush. I have a world of respect for Mandela and I agree with what he is saying....what do you all think?
Quote:

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (Jan. 30) - Former President Nelson Mandela called President Bush arrogant and shortsighted and implied that he was racist for ignoring the United Nations in his zeal to attack Iraq.

In a speech Thursday, Mandela urged the people of the United States to join massive protests against Bush. Mandela called on world leaders, especially those with vetoes in the U.N. Security Council, to oppose him.

''One power with a president who has no foresight and cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust,'' Mandela told the International Women's Forum.

Mandela also criticized Iraq for not cooperating fully with the weapons inspectors and said South Africa would support any action against Iraq that was supported by the United Nations.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer responded to Mandela's criticism by pointing to a letter by eight European leaders reiterating their support of Bush.

''The president expresses his gratitude to the many leaders of Europe who obviously feel differently'' than Mandela, Fleischer said. ''He understands there are going to be people who are more comfortable doing nothing about a growing menace that could turn into a holocaust.''

A Nobel Peace Prize winner, Mandela has repeatedly condemned U.S. behavior toward Iraq in recent months and demanded Bush respect the authority of the United Nations. His comments Thursday, though, were far more critical and his attack on Bush far more personal than in the past.

''Why is the United States behaving so arrogantly?'' he asked. ''All that (Bush) wants is Iraqi oil,'' he said.

He accused Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair of undermining the United Nations and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who is from Ghana.

''Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white,'' he said.

Mandela said the United Nations was the main reason there has been no World War III and it should make the decisions on how to deal with Iraq.

He said that the United States, which callously dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, has no moral authority to police the world.

''If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don't care for human beings,'' he said.

''Who are they now to pretend that they are the policemen of the world, the ones that should decide for the people of Iraq what should be done with their government and their leadership?'' he said.

He said Bush was ''trying to bring about carnage'' and appealed to the American people to vote him out of office and demonstrate against his policies.

He also condemned Blair for his strong support of the United States.

''He is the foreign minister of the United States. He is no longer prime minister of Britain,'' he said.

AP-NY-01-30-03 1308EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.




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Offlinethe universe
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1262956 - 01/30/03 07:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Preach on Mandela! Bush shouldn't even BE our president legally. Let's watch the U.S. become a 3rd world country due to global retaliation to our arrogant nonsense.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1263859 - 01/31/03 01:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I also agree with what he is saying.

Quote:

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer responded to Mandela's criticism by pointing to a letter by eight European leaders reiterating their support of Bush.

''The president expresses his gratitude to the many leaders of Europe who obviously feel differently'' than Mandela, Fleischer said




Yeah I live in Europe and here is a broad consensus among the politicians, as well as the public, that Bush is a fanatic lunatic. The leaders who according to Fleicher supports Bush, are of the view that it is better to have good relations with the US and keep them at the negotiation table rather than having them go bezerk at their own. They dont "support" Bush, they just dont want to burn all the bridges for diplomatic communication, they still want to have a say in what will happen in the world for the next couple of years.


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1264164 - 01/31/03 04:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Mandela is all powerful,, and he played the race card, good work Nelson, finally someone plays the race card in the name of good for a change!!!

WHOO HOO

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1264294 - 01/31/03 05:58 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

The last thing Iraq needs is to become the next Japan.  :blush:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1264344 - 01/31/03 06:25 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, go Nelson!



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Offlineesin
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1267411 - 02/01/03 08:35 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Nelson Mandela is right!

Quote:

He accused Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair of undermining the United Nations and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who is from Ghana.

''Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white,'' he said.




I find this a bit excessive. He doesn't know if it is, and just b/c this happened now when a black man is secretary-general, doesn't mean it's racism...The US have always been like that even when secretary-generals were white...


Quote:

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer responded to Mandela's criticism by pointing to a letter by eight European leaders reiterating their support of Bush.




I am deeply ashamed that the prime-minister (not the parliament, who truly speaks for the people) of my country has signed this letter...Damn son of a bitch talking for all the portuguese people...
We're a small country and this mother-f***er only marks our position of subserviency (sp?) to the USA and the UK.
He doesn't give a shit about the tirany in Iraq...He is just joining the powerful side. I have serious doubts that he would side with the US if Iraq was more powerful. What he wants is a part of the oil Bush is gonna win with this war. What he can't see is that Bush will never give him any...
He wants to make us their slaves and has already gave permission to the US to use NATO's military base in Lages, Azores independently of any UN decision...
Dur?o Barroso is really a stupid prick...

I'm really ashamed of my country's position in this matter...We were always a pacific country. Always for peace, always for diplomatic resolution of ALL conflicts. We don't hurt no one, no one hurts us..Why does this ignorant bastard comes right now and thinks he can change that...
Maybe he likes to give head to Mr. Bush...who knows?

Sorry for the rambling, but i'm really revolted with the world situation at the time :mad:...Especially with the situation in my own country. Almost everyone i know here in Portugal is against this conflict but oficially we all support it b/c of that signature. Even our President is against a military solution.
In the last US wars, i felt revolted by what was happening...but my conscience was clear b/c of the positions my country took (except in kosovo war were we also took part as a member of NATO)...Now i can't even feel at peace with my own state... :frown:   


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: esin]
    #1267858 - 02/01/03 12:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Relax, no one has any quarrel with the Portugese. I'm an American, be glad you don't have that karma to drag around right now. Everybody hates us.
I don't know, I'm just starting to get a bad feeling that later in my life, having been an American citizen in these times will carry the same stigma as having been a German citizen in the 1930s...


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Offlineesin
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Xibalba]
    #1269987 - 02/02/03 05:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Well, i know that! I didn't post that b/c there was any...

I was just in the afterglow of an acid trip where i thought about it a lot (i had seen the newsflash where the guy signed the letter a couple of hours before the trip).
I had that stuck in my throat and just had to spill it somewhere  :crazy:

Besides, i don't think everybody hates you...They just hate your government and especially mr Bush...

As far as i know there's a lot of american people who are against this situation...

And I totally understand it must be a lot more difficult to be in your position than in mine...

Peace!
 


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OfflineFred Garvin
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1271093 - 02/02/03 01:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Nelson Mandela is a fucking tool.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1271319 - 02/02/03 03:43 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

How dare you say that??? Nelson Mandela is one of the greatest civil rights leaders of the 20th century. He brought an end to apartheid, for God's sake! That's got to be worth something. You may not agree with what he said about about Iraq, but give the man the respect he deserves.


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: silversoul7]
    #1271829 - 02/02/03 07:03 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

well said


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1271969 - 02/02/03 08:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm... That's what I thought too.

But aparently he's a doofus.  :confused:


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OfflineFred Garvin
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1272416 - 02/03/03 12:47 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Fuck Nelson Mandela, I don't have the same view of him as you, that's why I dare to say it.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1272878 - 02/03/03 06:47 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So you think apartheid was a good thing???


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: silversoul7]
    #1274812 - 02/03/03 04:08 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

He did a lot of good work, but that doesn't mean his shit don't stink.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1275164 - 02/03/03 05:42 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I meant Mandella is a doofus.


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1275377 - 02/03/03 06:54 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Listen guys, I think its great that you have an opinion and want to share it. Our differences are what make the world great...but this thread is intended to share an article and not to argue over what people think of Nelson Mandela...I really don't want this to turn into a flame war...so please be nice.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1276184 - 02/04/03 02:47 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Your basis for insulting Nelson mandela is totally unfounded.
You just come here and slate him instead of actually making a senseable comment.
No one wants your stupid comments.
As Spiffy stated, we are here to comment on the speech and it`s relevence, not Mandela as an individual.

And I think it`s about time someone spoke out about Bush and his Mad champaigns of war.
If it takes South Africa being reutrned back into the Dark-ages because of speaking out then so be it.
I`ll still live here happily knowing my former president said no to the US and it`s blind tirrany.
Enough of the madness, for goodness sake.
You americans get oppressed by the government and bush's ideas everyday, hell you can`t even smoke dope without fearing for your life.

Respect to Mandela for what he had to say.


Edited by DERRAYLD (02/04/03 02:49 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1277412 - 02/04/03 10:24 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Debate is fine.

If you have a problem with Mandela, explain it.

You're apparently too stupid to articulate your ideas though.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1277461 - 02/04/03 10:40 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

That's a personal attack.

I'm telling!  :tongue:


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1277586 - 02/04/03 11:27 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

wait...I'm confused...you are replying to me but saying that I am stupid. Did you mean to do that. If so, why...all I've asked is that we be kind to one another.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1277808 - 02/04/03 12:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

agreed.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1277987 - 02/04/03 01:30 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that wasn't directed at you.

It was just a less than articulate rebuttal to Fred & I.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #1278072 - 02/04/03 01:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If Iraq has the weapons the Bush administratrion claims Then someone needs to do something about it. For eight years the Clinton Admistration was satisfied to remain lax about it. Tha's why we're having to be all hardassed about it now. It has nothing to do with the race of any world leader.

Mandella's attempt to make it a racial issue is something I would expect from someone like Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton. It seems non-American Africans have learned some tricks from their American cousins.


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1279135 - 02/04/03 06:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

you see, the thing is that I don't really think Mandela believes its a race thing. I think he felt it necessary to play that card in order to get people to hear what he is saying...the focus of the article is his views on the way the united states is handling this issue...the comment about race was a side remark. Also, I don't think ANYONE is saying that Saddam Houssien should stay in power, but that we should attempt to reach a diplomatic solution instead of just jumping into a war. Almost every country in the world is saying they will support a war with Iraq IF the UN supports it. The problem is that Bush is too arrogant and impatient to wait for that....and he might just go to war without UN consent...that would be BAD!!!!


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1279195 - 02/04/03 06:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

where did you go?


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1279440 - 02/04/03 07:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Almost every country in the world is saying they will support a war with Iraq IF the UN supports it."

What?

They don't support it because none of the other countries support it, but they would support it if the others did, which they would, but they're waiting for the others to do it first?


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1279676 - 02/04/03 09:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

  They don't support it because none of the other countries support it, but they would support it if the others did, which they would, but they're waiting for the others to do it first?




In other words, the world doesnt support it.  Thats their way of saying it diplomatically. 

Why does the US expect the citizens of other countries to die for US ideals?  :confused: 


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1279713 - 02/04/03 09:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

First off, I'd like to say Mandela isa great man blah, blah, blah. But he's way out of line here.

>''One power with a president who has no foresight and cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust,''

These are harsh words, but above all they are un - true.  If the UN doesnt want in it will be the US (possibly UK) against Iraq thats it, Do you have a better solution Mr Mandela like giving the Iraqi's another 12 yrs of inspection free time to produce more weapon, and employ more coercive tactics.  I'm sure the U.S. would be happy to back down if the Iraqi's disarmed in a manner in which your country did, with full documentations, and the govt aiding the inspectors to verify the documentation

>Mandela also criticized Iraq for not cooperating fully with the weapons inspectors and said South Africa would support any action against Iraq that was supported by the United Nations.

I would ask Mr. Mandela if he has read Resolution 1441

>''Why is the United States behaving so arrogantly?'' he asked. ''All that (Bush) wants is Iraqi oil,'' he said.

I dont see the US as acting arrogantly.  Lets be practical about this, the US isnt going to wage war for oil,  but if war is neccessary, eventual we will be rebuilding Iraq(like we do every other country we blow apary).  When this occurs we will probably rebuild it with their oil (w/ money going to us corp), instead of tax payer funds.  That being said France, and Russia have very big oil deals with Iraq, and a war would not help them (they are on the security council)

>''Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white,'' he said.

To accuse Bush of being a racist is absurd, is he off his Rocker.  I'd like to be on the recieving end of the support we give to south africa, and other poor african countries ala George Bush.  Billions.

>''He is the foreign minister of the United States. He is no longer prime minister of Britain,''

Is this statement even relevant, last I heard the Brits were growing weary, but anyways that title belongs to Jack Straw.

Sure the man did alot in his day, but I think he may have been tripping :confused:.  These statements are just crazy, and Mandela is a real whack job. I'd like to kick that pinko-commi down the stairs. 

-Mandella's attempt to make it a racial issue is something I would expect from someone like Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton. It seems non-American Africans have learned some tricks from their American cousins.
  Good call :grin: :shocked: :laugh:


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (02/04/03 09:17 PM)


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1279764 - 02/04/03 09:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Damn BladeLSD, I guess your attitude is to be expected of a blindly patriotic american.
What he said had more relevence than anything Bush has said resently.
The problem here is that you just look at his words and twist them instead of actually looking at the motivation and meaning of what was said.
You will realise that as spiffy said, he only used the race-card to make them listen.
with regards to Bush having no foresight and not being able to think properly is spot on.
The larger percentage of ppl think Bush is a mad-man, madder than Robert mugabe for one.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #1280684 - 02/05/03 07:39 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I havnt twisted Mandela's words in the slightest I just interpret them as the Poppycock they really are, I think you need to get from under Mandela's desk, and realise as Baby Hitler so elquently spoke "his shit stinks", when you make statements have some facts to back them up.

Believe me I am far from completly behind Bush & his administration, I unlike you live in america, and believe it or not I believe it is a threat. This isnt a New Iraqi problem it is an old problem we have failed to deal with. It needs to be dealt with. I dont know about your country, but we have been attacked, and to think Sadaam isnt a threat is to be delirious. Mr Mandela needs to get his facts straight, and you have no answer to these facts, except I'm a patriotic american, I guess I am, but that doesnt stop me from seeking out the truth, and the truth is Iraq is a threat, and a threat that has ties to terrorism. I dont think war is the best solution, but it may be the only solution. How are Iraqi people supposed to protest a dictator, with their lives?, I think they are a little tired of being killed by Saddam if we go to war, Iraq wont have a leg to stand on.
It seems that you are following along the same lines as the person who slandered mandela, you just stated how you feel with no facts to back it up, Your guessing I just listen to what "they" say. This is untrue, I seek out the facts, and these are facts. If he played the race card just to get people to listen, well this is hardly the behavior I expect from such a respected leader, and a Nobel Prize winner, this statement for me hit Mandela's credibility like a sock full pennies. The other statements are just a reflection of his lack of foresight. Bush's popularity in the foreign world is insignificant to me, he has my support, and the support of most americans. I think your missing the real madman here the one who kills his own people, and use's thier small amount of resources to his advantage. If Johanusberg(sorry for spelling I know its not right) had been hit with suicide planes Mandela would change his tune.
The fact is America doesnt expect anyone to die for our Ideals, there are plenty of Patriotic Americans who have, and will continue to die for U.S. Ideals. If Mandela wanted to criticize the US he shouldnt have done it after drinking so much alcohol, his statments are laughable. Some of you have international policy a bit screwed up. I dont think you understand the powerlessness of the UN when working together it is quite effective, but for the most part it is just another league of nations where every country does what they can. If we dont have support, how many other countries are willing to die for Saddam...not many. If we have to go at it alone we will, but the opposition is purely diplomatic, and no country is dumb enough to take arms along side the deserting Iraqi army, when the time comes.


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (02/05/03 08:53 AM)


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1281054 - 02/05/03 10:02 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In other words, the world doesnt support it. Thats their way of saying it diplomatically.

Why does the US expect the citizens of other countries to die for US ideals?




We don't. We know what cowards they are, and just want them to stay out of our way.

Why are you content to alow Iraqi citizens to die for Saddam's Ideals?

Why are you content to allow American's to die for the ideals of muslim extremists?

What good are you ?


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1281245 - 02/05/03 10:54 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

>We don't. We know what cowards they are,
>and just want them to stay out of our way.

Hmm I disagree.  The US has been trying to rally military support from the world for a long time now. 

>Why are you content to alow Iraqi citizens to die for Saddam's Ideals?

I would not be content about that, were it true.  Iraqis are not dying from Saddam's Ideals.  The liberation card doesnt play well here.

> Why are you content to allow American's to die for the ideals of muslim
> extremists?

I'm not content about that either.  You must be talking about Al Queda, because Iraqis aren't attacking Americans.  They will retaliate once you attack them, thats why I'm against the war.  War is bad for American citizens. 

> What good are you ?

I'm not good at launching bombs at civilians.  I would get fired from that job pretty quick.
I like the idea of peace though.  If that makes me worthless, so be it! :tongue: 


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1281262 - 02/05/03 11:00 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Not you, Spiffy, sorry. The people who are attacking Mandala.


--------------------
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1281280 - 02/05/03 11:02 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

It should be pointed out that Iraq has NEVER given anyone a reason to believe that they might launch any sort of unprovoked attack on the United States.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1281310 - 02/05/03 11:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

>Hmm I disagree. The US has been trying to rally military support from the world for a long time now.

It doesn't really matter if they show up or not. Their military contributions have been all but insignificant in the last few decades. It's just a token of support.

> Iraqis are not dying from Saddam's Ideals. The liberation card doesnt play well here.

I believe they are.


>You must be talking about Al Queda, because Iraqis aren't attacking Americans.

There's a good chance that they are working together. Bush seems to have reason to believe it, but that's not enough yet for me to believe it.

I don't disagree with anything Bush has done yet. If he were to attack tonight, he'd have a hard time convincing me, most of America, and the rest of the world that it was the right thing to do.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1281372 - 02/05/03 11:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Bush must be being told alot of disturbing things about Iraq, Saddam, and terrorism, to be acting this way.  Probably alot of this is coming from Rumsfeld and Bush Sr. 

Alot of people would see Bush's side were he to reveal this information, some of which Powell recently revealed.

Keeping this information secretive means that only a few people are using it, and making narrow decisions.  There seems to be a severly limited number of views at the top of the US government.  I think Bush would benefit alot if he diversified his counsell.  I think you should apply, Hitler  :smile: 


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1281431 - 02/05/03 11:50 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I'd like to know what he knows too, but not if it means risking even more lives.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1287501 - 02/07/03 06:28 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Ohh really Phluch, Saddama son has threathened the US, and threathened it with Biological warfare. Why do you just want to let it fester? Where were you when Clinton was in Kosovo w/o UN approving, blowing up aspirin factories.


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We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1287783 - 02/07/03 07:59 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Why are you content to alow Iraqi citizens to die for Saddam's Ideals?

1.5 million Iraqis have died as a direct result (DIRECT) of the UN sanction, according the the UN itself. So why are you content allowing your country kill Iraqi citizens.

Maybe the UN shouldn't get involved at all. Saddam is American-made, so maybe this war isn't international at all?


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Dogomush]
    #1288330 - 02/07/03 11:34 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

and why are the sanctions there, Because of Saddam. Its not our fault the bastard turned on us. Alliance's go rotten sometimes, How the fuck is the united states supposed to prevent it?. Even if the sanctions were lifted, Saddam would just get more money, not his people.


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (02/07/03 11:36 AM)


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1288442 - 02/07/03 12:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ohh really Phluch, Saddama son has threathened the US, and threathened it with Biological warfare. Why do you just want to let it fester? Where were you when Clinton was in Kosovo w/o UN approving, blowing up aspirin factories.



I don't know about him, but I was protesting that too.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1294089 - 02/09/03 06:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Saddama son has threathened the US, and threathened it with Biological warfare."

Saddam did? Or do you mean his son? When did this happen, can you link me to some info?

If the US is allowed to have weapons of mass destruction, why aren't other countries?

In the US there are places where you can't teach evolution, homosexual sex is illegal, you can't show breasts or say "fuck" on television, and people can't even smoke marijuana if they feel like it. Who are they to tell other governments that they aren't treating their citizens fairly?

"Where were you when Clinton was in Kosovo w/o UN approving, blowing up aspirin factories."

Same place I am now, except I was shaking my head in shame over somethat that was happening, as opposed to something that's about to happen.


--------------------
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1296277 - 02/10/03 11:46 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Baghdad = Not a threat outside of it's own borders.
Pyongyang = Potential threat to the world.

Iraq = Oil.
North Korea = Cabbage.



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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Ped]
    #1296655 - 02/10/03 02:03 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Its so short sighted to say its just for oil. Our country would not got to war just for oil. Now on the other hand after we anhilate Iraq, we will probably use the oil to re-build Iraq (via U.S. corps), but this is a hell of alot better than Tax payers paying for it. So why not.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1302850 - 02/12/03 03:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I respected Mandela before but not now.

''Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white,''

Thats the most ignorant shit I've heard from a man of his status in a long time. Alot of people here that are against US action should be pissed at him for what he said. He doesn't help the cause by making rash inflamitory statements.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1304854 - 02/13/03 07:50 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Its so short sighted to say its just for oil. Our country would not got to war just for oil. Now on the other hand after we anhilate Iraq, we will probably use the oil to re-build Iraq (via U.S. corps), but this is a hell of alot better than Tax payers paying for it. So why not.




Still the question remains. Why is it that Bush is willing to go to war with Iraq (a country in the so called "axis-of-evil") who possibly has weapons of mass destruction and/or the potential and will to produce them. When he is not willing to use military force against North Korea(also a member of the "axis-of-evil") who is confirmed to possess nuclear weapons and whom also hates America. Nor has he applied much political pressure to Korea or made much of a wave over the issue at all.

Other good points:

1) Why is it that America can possess weapons of mass destruction but, other countries may not.
2) Who is America to police the world when they subvertly oppress their own people.
3) America has commited many atrocities in its time. (Japan, Native Americans, Arming/training insane power hungry mad men, etc...)


--------------------
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Edited by 3eyedgod (02/13/03 07:52 AM)


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1306920 - 02/14/03 02:11 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

What do you mean other countries cant have WMD's lots of other countries have them, we just dont like them to be in the hands of countries with Mad men like Saddam. We will deal with north korea when the time comes. As long as their is no one else to police the world, then I guess the US will have to take that position. What does america's past have to do with protecting its citizens...Diddly squat.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1309843 - 02/15/03 01:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What do you mean other countries cant have WMD's lots of other countries have them, we just dont like them to be in the hands of countries with Mad men like Saddam. We will deal with north korea when the time comes. As long as their is no one else to police the world, then I guess the US will have to take that position. What does america's past have to do with protecting its citizens...Diddly squat.




Actually we don't want anyone save ourselves to have them. We have tried to prevent every country from developing "WMD's". Will we deal with NK when the time comes? When will that time be? Considering they have WMD's they hate us AND they have long range missles, they seem like more of a threat than Saddam at the moment. That is unless of course you think only those of middle eastern decent would carry out terrorist actions or enable terrorist actions. That would be called racism. Protecting your citizens and policing the world are different things. Let's not forget who helped Saddam to acheive power in the first place.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1312446 - 02/16/03 07:15 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Screw the world, screw that Nig! America trys to help those poor bastards and they shit on us. Let those uncivil monkeys all kill them selves with desease and civil wars who cares. Screw the U. N. Who the hell needs to answer to them? We have a One world govorment now? Great! I hope America says screw everyone and dose what they want. It's all going to hell anyway.

Minus well die happy. Caaauuzzz I'mm Triggger happpy Trigger haaapppy everrrryyyy daayyy! GO BUSH WHHOOOHOOOOO !!

God Bless America!


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Bavet]
    #1312507 - 02/16/03 07:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Damn, you are one ignorant, confused, racist fucker!


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: silversoul7]
    #1312581 - 02/16/03 07:56 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Damn Straight! fudge packing homo!


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Edited by Bavet (02/16/03 08:01 PM)


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Bavet]
    #1312604 - 02/16/03 08:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

At least I'm not sucking Bush's dick!


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Re: Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: silversoul7]
    #1312611 - 02/16/03 08:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Just Nelson Mandela cock lol


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Re: Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Bavet]
    #1312617 - 02/16/03 08:08 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Well, hey, the man deserves a good BJ after ending Apartheid.


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Edited by silversoul7 (02/16/03 08:08 PM)


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Re: Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: silversoul7]
    #1312728 - 02/16/03 09:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

the man deserves a good BJ after ending Apartheid.







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